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Old 02-09-2008, 11:10 PM   #141
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Answer? What was the question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
sorry nuvi, but this is ONLY a tiny piece of the answer...
2air,

You apparently heard something that I didn't say. . .

Just to clarify,

GT presented his opinion of what the relationship between WBCCI and VAC should be.

I presented my opinion of what the relationship between WBCCI and VAC is.

This was not intended as the "answer" to anything. . .

Feel free to disagree. . . and to paraphrase somebody else's trailer,

"I don't claim to be an expert, but I am a member of both organizations."
(. . . and I slept in my Airstream last night!)

Cheers,
Nuvi
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Old 02-09-2008, 11:24 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT1963

I presented an idea to re-org the province and I was looked at as if I had horns coming out my head. . .

. . . I had a lot of experience and enthusiasm - which they (or some) saw as a threat - too radical - too young - and well that is it end of story.....
GT,

You have nicely put the fundamental problem. The elders who run the present unit do not want change. And in fairness to the Ontario unit, with their membership growth they must be doing a lot of things right.

It seems like you have a good opportunity here to duplicate the success of the Four Corners Unit. If you can find 15 subscribers you can start your own unit and make it what you want it to be. Maybe you could start with the Ontario unit members who defected to the WDCU.

Good luck,
Nuvi
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Old 02-10-2008, 12:37 AM   #143
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why can't marilyn find a nice boy friend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuvite-F
...You apparently heard something that I didn't say. . .I presented my opinion of what the relationship between WBCCI and VAC is...
what was written is this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuvite-F
Actually, VAC is, for all practical purposes, a separate organization...
along with the notion 'insurance basically'...

my point is OTHER o.t.c members have commented on what the complete relationship IS with the wbcci...

and while it may be true that for a few 'fun purposes' they are separate,

for almost ALL of the practical issues, they are are oneinthesame.

sharing all of the main club rules and ceremony, but with extra stuff at the intraclub level.

and it's a sorry time for the main club when happy units and intraclubs suggest over and over...

we really aren't part of, involved with or reflective of the main club....

this is sort of like the embarrassment the munster family expresses...

whenever the homely marilyn scares off all her suitors...

so who's your daddy?

cheers
2air'
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Old 02-10-2008, 09:36 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
so who's your daddy?

cheers
2air'
I have always seen your posts as a bit out there - but lots of fun to read - but this explanation is by far the most accurate I have read in a very long time

good on you 2Airishuman

The Munsters Rock!
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Old 02-10-2008, 09:56 AM   #145
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On the Vintage Club end of things...

I think their internal club runs very well. However from an outsiders point of view I still see that club as very "western" motivated. It is like really a Region that has split off.

The emphasis on vintage easterly is minimal at best.

In 5 years - there is going to be a Region 2 Vintage Rally fairly central... While the effort is fantastic by those who are organizing - but one in 5 years is really a hit and miss for the 100's of vintage owners - who may or may not be available or may cut the mustard as to getting there in one piece and fuly functional.

Ontario has lots of Vintage followers - but again the concept of geography gets in the way. We also have this imaginary middle line that says if the majority are the west side that is where the action is - so we go to the action and the action never returns the favor (well not never but rarely) meaning travel to the east.

Then you have the issue of Vintage (only Rallies) taking participants away from the Airstream (only Rallies) - Go figure are we not all airstreams really.

Then of course there is the "attitued" of blue buggies are the slums of airstreams sliver palaces where the poop don't stink Where is when you need a gopher hole???

Then the race of the triple axles (nothing wrong with them in our eyes - but they sure do look at you strange when you merge from your single axle, with two big dogs) and the eyes stray to the hints of duck tape residue on some of the more precious vintage parts.

But tell me - what is the highlight of the International (also seen from the side lines - never been only heard about)
The Vintage Parade!!! with out question is the most talked about.
(unless of course there is another political arena for something like A name change or Moho issues to arise again.)

You are where you come from!

Wally - whether he be good, bad or indifferent in each of our eyes - built an Airstream and they are still being built today! SIMPLE!!!

New ones are sold - even with the high price tag they are bought every day to serve as the family vacation, retirement dream, home in a tube or whatever the pleasure. Vintage are handed down, found by chance, searched endlessly for or a hobby - for the same purpose as the new or not so new Airstreams are.

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Old 02-10-2008, 11:15 AM   #146
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Huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman

for almost ALL of the practical issues, they are are oneinthesame.

sharing all of the main club rules and ceremony, but with extra stuff at the intraclub level.
2air,

Say what? I have only been to half a dozen or so VAC rallies, but I've never seen any evidence of "all of the main club rules and ceremony". There may have been a couple of blue berets in evidence, but no elaborate opening ceremony, no red blazers, no white tuxedos, no executive row. Even "unauthorized flags" in sight with no WBCCI Kops to confront them.

Cheers,
Nuvi
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Old 02-10-2008, 01:39 PM   #147
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Trying to step up.

Quote:
The emphasis on vintage easterly is minimal at best.

In 5 years - there is going to be a Region 2 Vintage Rally fairly central... While the effort is fantastic by those who are organizing - but one in 5 years is really a hit and miss for the 100's of vintage owners - who may or may not be available or may cut the mustard as to getting there in one piece and fuly functional.

Ontario has lots of Vintage followers - but again the concept of geography gets in the way. We also have this imaginary middle line that says if the majority are the west side that is where the action is - so we go to the action and the action never returns the favor (well not never but rarely) meaning travel to the east.

Then you have the issue of Vintage (only Rallies) taking participants away from the Airstream (only Rallies) - Go figure are we not all airstreams really.

GT1963, you would be correct in your post (in my opinion).

From what I understand and this is coming from VAC'ers from the past on the east coast.

The WDCU was started by mostly Vintage Airstream Owners on the east coast. This would give VAC'ers here in the east a unit they could join which would be a more laid back camping, swap vintage knowledge, repairs, less WBCCI(red coat wearing) etc.... The WDCU every year has held their "WDCU Cherry Blossom Rally" which I do want to state, was pretty much known as the "East Coast Vintage Rally" to attend. In fact, the first couple of years, I don't ever really remember seeing a newer Airstream at "CBR". But, like other things in life, things have changed. The WDCU has members with newer trailers (but still a vintage view). The "CBR" has become less known as the vintage rally to attend if you lived on the east coast and more of just one of the rallies that people have a bunch of fun at. Because of this transformation, I spoke to some of the original members of the WDCU about the lack of a "Vintage" feel here on the east coast like it was in years past. I felt it was time for someone (me) to step up and get the "east coast" going again. But understand, any member of the WBCCI can attend any rally. I'm sure we will see newer trailers at the East Coast VAC Rally later this year. Which, I do not have a problem with.

You are correct, we the vintage owners on the east coast have let ourselves down! I think you will find this year, will be the start of things to come. Not only with the "East Coast VAC Rally" but with many TCT rallies in the works for here on the east coast. Next year, I'm planning the "East Coast VAC Caravan Rally" (dates TBD). This will be a 10 day event, starting in Virginia with a rally, leave Sunday for a Sun-Thur caravan up the east coast using old back roads to the New England area for a rally at that end.

Any help "any of you" VAC'ers would like to do is GREAT!!

I want to make the east coast the gold star of the VAC.

But understand, the VAC is more about a mind set, than a trailer for me.


Your Region 2 VAC Guy
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Old 02-10-2008, 06:31 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rideair
............. Next year, I'm planning the "East Coast VAC Caravan Rally" (dates TBD). This will be a 10 day event, starting in Virginia with a rally, leave Sunday for a Sun-Thur caravan up the east coast using old back roads to the New England area for a rally at that end.

Any help "any of you" VAC'ers would like to do is GREAT!!

I want to make the east coast the gold star of the VAC.

But understand, the VAC is more about a mind set, than a trailer for me.


Your Region 2 VAC Guy
Well Paul a few things....since I am almost returning member of the WDCU Just need a stamp

Your East Coast Caravan sounds absolutely great - what time of year are you looking at - have you narrowed it to a particular month??? I will schedule our Holiday!!! as we have wanted to go on a Caravan for so long....most have been too long, to expensive or at the wrong time of the year. But a 10 day holiday in close driving proximity to join in - sounds like it just might be a real possibility.

And if there is anything that I can offer to help with i.e. phone, e-mail, desktop ( or meditative mood music to get you through the day )I would be most pleased to offer my services. FREE!!!!!!!

Your last comment - Vac'ers being a mindset is so so true. One Day Peter and I may not have a vintage trailer - but we will always love the history of the Airstream.

Also if you or anyone from Region two want to run a "vintage" flavour Rally up here in Ontario and need a warm body to help - I sit in the back row with my hand up waving pick me pick me......

We may not hit all the great Rallies, but any chance we get to get our fix on the Airstream Silver Bug we jump at it with our friends HappyCampers - Annie and Marvin (who also left Ontario Unit to be MAL's and then joined the NEU so they could cast their VOTE!!)

I have attended a few Forum Rallies they are a lot of fun! I/We were so disappointed that I/we had to cancel my/our trip to the Can-Opener this year. I say I/We cause I was going first then invited the DH then he bagged out cause of work - and then the Garage caved in to make the band-aid restoration for my trip on the LadyBug impossible to finish.

Anyway we have so many great years ahead - and Peter and I when we have the time - are the doing kind - we like to get involved and will step up to that plate when the time comes.

Four Airstreamers having a bit of a Vintage/New fix at the Toronto RV show - at the CanAm Booth...
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That was a cute little 59 Pacer. And I thought it was a great touch - first time I have seen them have a vintage Airstream - apparently it was Andy's first trailer he sold way back when he was young. And it never left the Province. Somehow it made its way back to him - kind of neat really.

Despite what a few people here say about Andy - he is a really super nice guy and loves Airstreams.
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Old 02-10-2008, 08:53 PM   #149
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Going out on a limb here:

I think if all these constructive posts were to be cut and paste in order into responses on the WBCCI 2020 Forum so those members could see the passion and thought process that is in place, it might cause them to ramp up the timing. It might also help them come to grips with the changes required to move the organization forward.

Try here:

WBCCI Forum -

We only assume that many of those folks are also reading the threads on this forum, where we know all of them are reading that thread.

It's worth considering and for each of you it's only a cut and paste scenario for a potential payback of knowing this info is now available to the people charged with leading the change.

Just suggesting........

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Old 02-10-2008, 09:02 PM   #150
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Oh yeah, and WHILE YOU ARE THERE

in 2006 Mike ran a thread on the AirForums on what people LIKED about the WBCCI. The focus was on what was working so those things that are really liked, and that make the club what it is we like, would either be retained or enhanced.

There is a similar new thread over there where I felt it might get more visibility form the people making the decisions.

If you'd be willing to take the time to put your thoughts to that one as well it would again be much appreciated.

Thanks
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Old 02-10-2008, 09:49 PM   #151
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Well if I were to say one thing over at the WBCCI Forum it would be this....

So this 2020 Committee - if it had meat - it would have spent its first effort developing an infrastructure to support its huge task. At best - one member per region - who then would call on 3 members from the region - and a liaison from each of the units. Now you have a manageable structure with a reasonable workload for all and things will GET DONE!

But since I have not been to that forum for such a long time I forgot who I was and well it just told me that I would have the information I forgot sent to me within the HOUR - well I will forget that I asked for it by that time

As I have said in my many opinions - all the ideas are great at how to improve this or that and what should be worked on here and there. But if they/us (WBCCI) does not have the infrastructure to reach right into the substance of the membership - Unit level. Then what real clout is there to anything they attempt - would it really be the voice of the membership....??? May I remind you of the Membership Survey - that sampled a mere 13% of it's entire membership and and even smaller percentage - triggered the mass waist of the Name Change Fiasco.

A list is just that a list of ideals wants and wishes.

With a proper structure even for the 20/20 Steering Committee (as they should be called and not some task force) They would be the last ones to analyze the Memberships wishes/wants/needs.

The Sub Regional 20/20 Committee (if they had one) would do all the ground work. One to one with the Units. A first step might be to show some support of the efforts of those Units that do meter their Unit Health. First by asking each unit when was the last time they issues or solicited input from their members - and ask if that information could be made available to the 20/20. If a Unit does not have or have not done one in the last 2 years then perhaps a simple questionnaire could be provided - with the Region committee member offering to help circulate and collect them with the Unit.

Now you have some teeth in the grass roots input....and not just a small sampling of the members. A questionnaire is also so important as to its structure and content - to capture pertinent information on the demographic of individual members (not just anyone can come up with a questionnaire!).

Now Each Region has the data at their finger tips. At this level the data needs to be analyzed and extrapolated into distinct issues/trends for that region. It will be unique to their members within a distinct jurisdiction. Keeping simple things in mind as "seasons" even and how that will affect participation. Widespread geography, age demographics, family make up and the list can be endless if you have no control over your direction. So a good overall direction and parameters for information will be imperative to the success and usefulness of the data collection.

Each Region would then submit their analyzed and collated package - to present to the 20/20 Steering Committee.

From this more manageable information - the 20/20 Steering Committee has the mandate to extrapolate the information necessary to develop a 3 or 5 or 10 year plan. A detailed 3 year plan would be the best with a 5 year target plan and 10 year vision.

This would then be presented by the 20/20 Chair or assigned speaker presenter on behalf of the Committee to the IBT to RATIFY -

Something far too many Board of Directors - don't get. They are not there to pick apart what is presented to them based on their personal opinion. They are to base their vote on the parameters and jurisdiction and mandate given to the committee. They are not there to change the presentation at their will. Their job is to Ratify the information/recommendations and to decipher whether they meet the present by-laws or if the by-laws need revising in order to approve the recommendations/plan etc.

But with the present make up of this new committee and the time frame and their list that they have set for themselves I wish you all the best of luck. It will be very interesting to see the actual focus of this committee....

....but then that is just silly little me with a 1963 Vintage Airstream speaking.......

and when I finally get my password and user name from WBCCI forum I will come back and cut and paste this......
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Old 02-11-2008, 10:28 AM   #152
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Thanks Sharon,

The folks over on the WBCCI forum need to see this stuff. As you say, there's so much passion for what the club could be and should be. There are a lot of folks beyond the 2020 committee who are willing to do whatever they can to move things forward if they just ask.

We have to start somewhere and it would seem that their website would be the closest any of us is going to get to them.

Thanks again,
Barry
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Old 02-11-2008, 02:34 PM   #153
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Thanks for the contributions everyone

Quote:
Originally Posted by safari57
The folks over on the WBCCI forum need to see this stuff. As you say, there's so much passion for what the club could be and should be. There are a lot of folks beyond the 2020 committee who are willing to do whatever they can to move things forward if they just ask.


Thanks again,
Barry
I have a feeling that this thread has extended from just this forum.I remain positive that there are more and more people willing to do whatever they can to move things forward if they just ask but that has been the challenge hasn't it. Eventually I think this will change.
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Old 02-11-2008, 07:27 PM   #154
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Mike I think you are right there that "the asking" has been part of the problem. But how do you ask for something if you don't know what to do with the answer you may get.

Something that has disturbed me about this new committee. Is that IBT felt it necessary to assign a committee to virtually take the place/right away from the units and regions to determine for themselves the issues of their club and present them as changes through the appropriate channels available to them through the constitution.

By setting up this committee which has stated that one of their mandates is to identify issues and get things changed faster through the IBT.

So what does that tell you?

That the By-laws as written, the structure as presently in place - is such that to allow change in the organization takes too long.

So why would one in their wisdom add yet another committee that can not possibly be a fair and equitable voice for the whole membership. Instead of making policy and by-law changes to make the process more efficient. I thought there was already a By-Law committee in place. Or were they simply to look at by-laws specifically relating to the name change and the MOHO issue??? Was that committee not appointed in 2004???

Please everyone understand that I am in no way trying to knock down those who have either been assigned to this 20/20 committee or who have stepped up to be on the committee - they should all be commended.

It just seems that the efforts put forth by IBT is just not thinking outside the box. They keep sending mountain climbers out with no shoes on. The poor souls don't have a hope in heck of getting passed the first base camp (no pun intended). When I say they I am speaking of the IBT as a collective authoritative body and not the members in their second hats ( Region Presidents and Executive Members)

Hey Barry - I tried I really did to get on the WBCCI forum - but I think the hour they said it would take to send me my information (username/password) has long expired. This is not the first time I have tried to use that site. Even when I did remember my old information - I would post and when I pressed the submit button it would just vanish into thin air....

So yes - I would think even the manner in which the 20/20 ahs presented themselves thus far on that site is questionable at best. And if anyone tosses - "we are just volunteers" I will surely puke! The manner in which to ask for the information should be such that it instills confidence in the membership that this committee was appointed because of their knowledge of the task at hand and simply not because of the number years they have been a member of WBCCI. It really needs to step up - they have to inject enthusiasm to their members to want to contribute. How about introductions for a start - as I think Leo was asking Pam (who I have not met but from what I have read seems to be a proactive and progressive thinker.)

Before coming to the membership - even the committees Goal (s) and Objectives - are at best a jumble of ideas. Where is the clarity? Specific targets that the committee wants to reach and how they will go about attaining them. Take the horse back to the gate and start again....

Look at the reach they are trying to attempt it is huge. And then to state it will not take overnight....come on folks how long does it take, will it take??? How many times do we have to go down this road?

Why can people not see where to start with this club. When it is staring them in the face. It is not a matter of letting go of what is not working anymore - it is a matter of giving the old car a face lift - the club still has its history whether it be 75 years ago or simply yesterday. Learn from it

If it is a matter of the idealized "perks" that some volunteers are counting on when they move up the ranks....then as the membership we will have to shift the importance of this club to its members and not to the top volunteers positions wanting to receive credit for the years they have volunteered. This is not just happening at the International level - please don't be so naive to think so. This political importance and self interest happens with a lot of volunteers as they move up the rank and it does not matter at what level - be it local Region or International. It is a fact of life people like the "importance" and the perception of "power" or control over another person, group or entity.

I think the times are changing again. There has been a 20 year period where society volunteers expected to have not only the perks but the "pay" for volunteering pay folks is not just a salary - it is the per diems.....per diems are still taxable last I looked and in most areas are taxable income...that constitutes getting paid.

So many times I read an individual state I have been X for X years in X capacity. But where are the statements - I have volunteered and was instrumental in developing this or organizing that. Taken a failing program and turned it around to a 50% increase in participation.

I see the minimums number of rallies, meetings etc. that our by-laws state we should have as a unit - and how many barely get the minimum done and do not go beyond that. Why?

Importance for many people is Caravan numbers and sanctioned Rallies - that is what motivates members to have participated in "their" clubs sanctioned events. But when the rules to actually implement these events become so restrictive - people will move via osmosis to new methods in hosting and running what they can - with or without the WBCCI blessing. And the sad part is usually "without" means people leave the organization.

REGIONS need more autonomy. IBT should be operating in a manner that puts the balances and checks on its regions to be consistently fair to its members, to assist in the education of the by-laws and policies. As a group in session the IBT should be approached for approval on issues. It is the IBT's mandate to ensure that the approvals are consistent with the Clubs Mission Statement, Plans, and Budget. The Executive Board - should not be dealing with ANY PROGRAM or MEMBERSHIP issue what so ever. Their job should be to administer the DAY TO DAY business of the organization. Finance, Legal, Parlimentary, Administrative and the National Staff/office. They also have the mandate to keep the IBT in check with it's duties and responsibilities as defined in the constitution.

From what I have read over at WBCCI threads and what has fitered through these forums and over at savewalley.org (which I have not been to since the name Change era ) The Executive Board is all over the Place. There is a clash between authorities, responsibilities etc. and it seems there are outside forces that are pushing buttons in as many places as well - all amounting to mass disorganization.

Folks never mind about the camp fires and the protocol of flags, and ceremony - this IS NOT where the problems are. The Organizational Structure is broken. That is like have a broken axle - she ain't going NO WHERE until it is fixed.

Don't let us again spin our wheels for yet another year. This organization needs to hire a professional consulting organization. It will do the needed assessments at arms length and without the personal attachment and without the politics.

They will assess all the levels of the organization. It will clearly define the problems and targets set forth the action required in order to correct/rectify the problems and move the Club forward again.

I have been through such a process. And as much as some may say what a waist of money.. think about the money and time that will be spent on the 20/20 Committee and the membership time and money - to feed them yet again with ideas and suggestions to present to an IBT that has no self direction of a Plan in front of them so how can they possibly articulate the data they will receive from a committee of non-professionals?

The 20/20 committee would be better off being the worker bees for a consulting firm and save $1000's of dollars and time.

As I have also mentioned before - the next stage of course will be once any assessment is completed - the Organization/Club HAS TO BE WILLING to trust and accept the direction recommended.

What happened to the three committees that were assigned back in 2004??? And where did their information go??? I bet it is sitting in a box somewhere in the office collecting dust - and neatly tucked away with a simple motion from the Executive - to address at a later date.

Why do you think this organization is spinning its wheels - where are the organizational Plans? When was the last one ever prepared - or has it ever had one? I'm guessing here because I have never seen one nor read about one??? Or have I missed it. Or is there one there but it is just a document that has no "air" time....


Starting to sound a bit like a columnist here But I sure hope that some of them are reading....sending letters well letters are letters - a public voice is much louder...than a letter..
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