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Old 09-09-2009, 12:54 AM   #43
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R U Looking for the WBCCI forum...go here

WBCCI Airstream Forums - The ORIGINAL Airstream Community

When you deal with Airstreams, and the WBCCI there is room for many forums that deal with what we all hold dear.

I can go pro or con for Airforums or WBCCI.

I praise neither, nor do I tear either down.

It is healthy to have the Airstream Nation visible to the world.

There is no competition here, just the spirit of your pride sharing your trailer, refurbishing tips, trips and love of the road with your Airstream.

Go for it!
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Old 09-09-2009, 01:38 AM   #44
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Dale,
I agree but only to a point - when the forums which represent the club that your mother started - is peppered with ads for specifically one used Airstream trailer flipper vendor and that vendor also just happens to host those forums, the club which your mother started is not best represented - in my humble opinion.
It is not a matter of praising nor tearing down, but rather honoring the history that was started so long ago and running with that.
In the current situation, it could be said that the person hosting the "new" forums is doing so to drive traffic to his site to sell more trailers. Posts are removed and when you click on them now, they just go to his home page at vintage-airstream.com. The ads shown on the home page are for HIS trailers from his paid for ad service - not free to members of WBCCI. Members must pay $29 dollars to that person now hosting the "new" forums just to list a trailer for sale. And does paying $29 for an ad guarantee that the used Airstream trailer is a quality unit - no! It might only be just a money making venture for the person hoisting those "new" forums - a violation of the constitution & bylaws of the WBCCI and perhaps even the 501(c)3 of the club.
I could agree with you 100% if, and only if, the WBCCI were hosting it's own forums, not depending on a commercial used Airstream trailer flipper to provide that service and use only HIS $29 ad system to list a trailer for sale. The deal doesn't best serve the WBCCI. And anyway, why must members of WBCCI have to pay to list a trailer for sale on WBCCI's "official" site anyway? Aren't we trusted enough already?
The only thing that does serve the club is if WBCCI actually owned and operated those forums itself rather than a used trailer flipper.
The rest about the spirit of your pride sharing your trailer, refurbishing tips, trips and love of the road with your Airstream - well, I agree with that. That is why many of us are actually in the WBCCI and the VAC.
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Old 09-17-2009, 05:29 AM   #45
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There are lots of changes going on. Some good, some bad, some dramatic. Maybe Mr. Prine can explain it.

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Old 09-19-2009, 02:31 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT View Post

The impression given sure does make the WBCCI look like a forums first, and a club second. Wow, I wonder if the Marketing Committee had a hand in that one?

__
I can answer your question. The Marketing Committee has not discussed the 'blurb' and it's links on the Airstream site. Reading this thread was how I learned that the the forums are now directly linked from there.
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Old 09-19-2009, 06:28 PM   #47
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Look at it like a race. People who are out in front run their own race. The can't worry about the person behind them because they will get caught and lose the race.

This forum is not a race, but I think it is pointless to show concern about another forum because you have somebody else doing the same event. What I mean is this information on this site gives very important information that helps many airstream owners with their airstreams. It is like a good restaraunt. You keep going back for more because it is good. Even if there are other restaurants built around it. If the food, service and price our good you keep going back. This place also has such a friendly atmosphere and everybody makes you feel like you belong and our important. I like the fact I don't have to join a club to feel like I belong.


Airstream forums is a class act and established.

Brian
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Old 09-19-2009, 07:54 PM   #48
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To address the original post, I wouldn't be concerned with the viability of the new forum. It will not be able to compete in any real sense of the word with this site. I don't think they can even win their own members back in a big way. I've heard a little about how the other forum is run and moderated on threads here and if they are accurate I assure you there will be competition.
The use of copyrighted material is more interesting, though others here seem to be okay with it. I don't understand the issue brought forth regarding the other forum being seen as "the underdog" if you were to tell them to stop using your material. What is the difference between that and your interaction with Airstream regarding the use of their name? Obviously, using a company's name is a bigger deal than using verbage from some form on a website, but I believe these are both considered "stealing". What am I missing here?
I don't think it will make any difference in the long run, weather you ask or tell them to stop using your material, or do nothing. If no one goes there, what does it matter?
If the admin on the other forum is a disgruntled former member here and his intent is to do damage to you, as has been suggested, then this is more of a personal attack on this site admin than a friendly competitor, and should be treated as such in my opinion.
I also look forward to hearing what brought Silvertwinkie from an apparently critical non-member, to a club forum "supermoderator" in such a short time. I saw no change in the club that would have brought me into the fold. I always enjoy his posts, which are generally well thought out and presented, and look forward to his response.

Thanks, Rich
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Old 09-19-2009, 08:44 PM   #49
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In my opinion (as a former member) the WBCCI upper management’s sole purpose in life is to unintentionally destroy the club by failure to listen to its own membership and follow its own rules.

What is happening now is just another straw in what has become a long process in support of their unintentional goal.

There are many folks on this forum that are very passionate in keeping Wally and his ideas alive and many are actively trying to change the WBCCI from the inside. I applaud them and what they are trying to do.

However; One day the camel will be loaded with one straw too many and at that time I suspect it will be this forum and its members that will have to lead the way in picking up the pieces and try to rebuild the “club” under some name other than the WBCCI.

It will be interesting to see how or “if” Thor Industries will step-in and what roll they will take. They seem to enjoy protecting the Airstream logo.



Garry
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Old 09-20-2009, 02:21 AM   #50
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just received an email to join the WBCCI forum....
how have they got my email as I'm not listed in any caravan club ???
If you read the small letters , apparently that comes from Vintage-airstream.com.

here is the email:

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Old 09-21-2009, 12:57 AM   #51
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hi 65GT;
I'm not against the fact to be contacted to join a new forum but just a bit surprised that my adress is known by the WBCCI where i've no contact ... i suppose this kind of informations comes from this website ( Airforums.com) , copied by a WBCCI member to be used for joining emails... spams don't do differently ....
About joining a new Airstream forum , it's a bit late ... how to be present seriously on two websites about the same passion to discuss the same things... Nothing against WBCCI that I respect , but they 'ld have to create a forum , a few years ago, when "Airstream forums" did'nt exist and had no succes....
if this forum had exist with WBCCI, I'm convinced I 'ld not be admited as I'm not WBCCI member and overseas...

here is my opinion.

Bruno.
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Old 09-21-2009, 06:51 AM   #52
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Bruno, while it's possible that someone could search forums posts for email addresses (address mining), the email address you gave us when you signed up isn't available to the public. When an email is sent to you using the Forums software, your email remains hidden; although the sender's email is visible on the email itself. As far as I know it isn't possible to mine addresses from our user database here without administrative-rights access to the site.

More likely the factory shared their email list with the WBCCI.

Roger
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:12 PM   #53
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What is the difference between that and your interaction with Airstream regarding the use of their name? Obviously, using a company's name is a bigger deal than using verbage from some form on a website, but I believe these are both considered "stealing". What am I missing here?
I respectfully suggest you read a bit about fair use doctrine and intellectual property rights. To borrow from the EFF site (mildly ironic, I think):

"While trademark law prevents you from using someone else's trademark to sell your competing products (you can't make and sell your own "Rolex" watches or name your blog "Newsweek"), it doesn't stop you from using the trademark to refer to the trademark owner or its products (offering repair services for Rolex watches or criticizing Newsweek's editorial decisions). That kind of use, known as "nominative fair use," is permitted if using the trademark is necessary to identify the products, services, or company you're talking about, and you don't use the mark to suggest the company endorses you. In general, this means you can use the company name in your review so people know which company or product you're complaining about. You can even use the trademark in a domain name (like walmartsucks.com), so long as it's clear that you're not claiming to be or speak for the company."

I would argue that AndyR could have "Airstream Knowledge Sharing Forums" without any license or permission from Airstream... as long as he ran the usual disclaimers.

Copying the bulk of a EULA or any copywritten materials is quite different--under the law--than the nominative fair use of a company name.
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Old 09-22-2009, 02:59 PM   #54
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Would that mean AndyR could have continued using "airstreamforum.com, Or whatever it was he was called prior to airforums.com?
I understand your argument but why would he have changed the name if there was not a legal issue? To avoid a legal battle, I guess?
Rich

p.s. STILL HOPING TO HEAR FROM SILVERTWINKIE!
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Old 09-22-2009, 04:26 PM   #55
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Sometimes being right isn't enough. Corporations always have much deeper pockets that you are I. The fact that you are right doesn't protect you from having to defend yourself in a court of law. I'm sure that many who technically are right, back down due to being unable to afford a protracted legal defense of their actions.

I say this not in explanation of our forum's name but the harsh reality of our legal state in this country.

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Old 09-22-2009, 08:47 PM   #56
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The issues with Airstream, Inc were based on the fact a Cafe Press store was setup with logo merchandise. The marketing director who was in place at the time was working hard to sign licensing deals and came after us but not other sites that had Airstream in their domain, I guess that was the price of success.

This thread has run it's course. I am going to close it so we can move forward and talk about more fun things. Thanks for understanding.
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