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Old 01-25-2006, 07:54 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streamer23
For those that are interested.I have been compiling WBCCI stats for 10 years as part of a little hobby I have.Part of the breakdown of the stats is the amount of members per unit.

The information I use is what is published in the annual directory.This year,28 units increased membership,103 units decreased in membership and 10 units remained unchanged.

Total membership as per the 2006 Directory is 6913 members ,down from 7504 members last year.

To me,the numbers clearly show change is needed.There are some units that are growing.What are they doing right?To me,this is far more than just a name change issue.Why are so many new members not renewing?What is being done to find out why?How can the WBCCI website be improved?

Before joining the Sierra Nevada Unit this year I was a member at large for several years.Was this info passed on to my local unit to see if I was interested in joining?Stronger units in my opinion make a stronger club.So many questions.

It would be nice to see an action plan from the club to address some of these issues or at least informing the membership that they are aware of them.

I want the club to survive and have made my info available in the past to WBCCI so some focus could be given to help struggling units etc but as of yet.....
The problem is the bull-headedness of WBCCI itself. Looking at WBCCI's problems is the same as looking at Airstream's problems. They are remarkable similar. Airstream however is turning the curve in they're direction by changing whereas WBCCI refuses to accept change.

As a FORMER RV Sales Rep and not a CURRENT one, I can now say that Airstream's problem was that they're clientel was dying off. That was the reason Airstream saw a huge decline in sales. They decided to turn they're marketing in the direction of a younger well-to-do crowd and now they're flourishing once again. You have only to look at the CCD, the Basecamp, or the Quiksilver editions to see the changes. Now let's bounce back to WBCCI.

WBCCI isn't planning on allowing Basecamp owners into the club. Why the @!^$ not? In a market where the cheapest product wins (Wal-Mart is the largest company in the world and they sell junk), why would the WBCCI not want those large numbers pouring in? They've also been rumored to shun children from various activities and rallies. I had a customer who said a WBCCI cabinet member told his 11-yo daughter that she was not a member. He's having serious doubts as to whether or not he will continue his subscription.

Simply put, WBCCI can not continue to resist change or it will canabolize itself.
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Old 01-25-2006, 08:38 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivetedude
WBCCI isn't planning on allowing Basecamp owners into the club. Why the @!^$ not? In a market where the cheapest product wins (Wal-Mart is the largest company in the world and they sell junk), why would the WBCCI not want those large numbers pouring in? They've also been rumored to shun children from various activities and rallies. I had a customer who said a WBCCI cabinet member told his 11-yo daughter that she was not a member. He's having serious doubts as to whether or not he will continue his subscription.

Simply put, WBCCI can not continue to resist change or it will canabolize itself.
Ben,
Is the Basecamp statement fact? I know this was brought up in a vote at our unit rally (along with the name change ) last spring. We had a spirited discussion on it with myself and others reminding the naysayers who claimed that the Basecamp didn't meet the self contained rules, that some vintage Airstreams do not comply either. We also reminded them that they excluded Argosy's and motorhomes at one time. Bottom line we noted that if you exclude the Basecamps now, you are potentially cutting off the source of future membership if they move up into the trailers. At that point we voted for approval and we instructed our delegate to vote for inclusion of the Basecamp at the IBT.

As far as the kids comment, be aware that in any organization there are those who I just consider jerks. Just like the group from Kansas who told me at a regional rally that next time I come back to a regional, I better have my numbers on my trailer......Not! Personally I won't throw the baby out with the bath water at this point just because of a few who are anal in their views.

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Old 01-25-2006, 08:41 AM   #17
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Excellent points Rivitdude

I was just trying to put myself in the shoes of the Corporate Sales Person - in a canny effort to try and understand the issue of "Name Change"

It is a tough pill to swallow - when you send so many new members towards a WBCCI Unit - and then the same number if not more leave the club. Would make it pretty hard for the After Sales Process.

Sending new purchasers - to a "Dying Club" time after time year after year. What comes to mind is "Dissassociation" It would be far easier than helping the club to change now wouldn't it. This is the first real fuel I have seen on the pro side of a name change. But it is still superficial and not justification.

Now if the base camp is not getting back to the initial roots - or design of the Airstream I do not know what is. Listening to theVap cast with Wally's interview the other day I noted his 5th Avenue comment - this( motorhomes and triple axels) would be his top end of the spectrum with the Basecamp being the initial starting point of the spectrum.
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Old 01-25-2006, 09:45 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcanavera
Ben,
........ naysayers who claimed that the Basecamp didn't meet the self contained rules, that some vintage Airstreams do not comply either. We also reminded them that they excluded Argosy's and motorhomes at one time.........
Jack
A smart political move was to ammend Article VI Sec 1. "Adult Onwers of units manufactured by Airstream, Inc prior to 1975 shall also be eligible.

However a newer ammendment should be put into motion this year and nip this us/them mentality in the bud once and for all.

The Article as written is restrictive and contradicts Article III Objectives of the International Club

If I can I would like to put a motion forth at our Spring Rally to replace Article VI Sec.1 with.....Any adult who owns a recreational vehicle manufactured by Airstream Inc. (Division of Thor) shall be eligible for Membership.
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Old 01-25-2006, 10:19 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT6921
If I can I would like to put a motion forth at our Spring Rally to replace Article VI Sec.1 with.....Any adult who owns a recreational vehicle manufactured by Airstream Inc. (Division of Thor) shall be eligible for Membership.
Thanks for that tidbit. I wasn't aware that they closed that loophole regarding the vintage units.

Unless I'm corrected by others, I think that your motion above was pretty verbatim of what was proposed last year. The Basecamp was talked about since it was the first new vehicle that didn't meet the self contained rule. Maybe some of the folks who were so detailed about the name change issue can chime in as to what happened to this motion. It should have been on the winter IBT agenda as a voting item.

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Old 01-25-2006, 10:42 AM   #20
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"WBCCI isn't planning on allowing Basecamp owners into the club. Why the @!^$ not? In a market where the cheapest product wins"

"The Article as written is restrictive and contradicts Article III Objectives of the International Club"

For Airstream RV the issue is brand dillution. The idea that the 'cheapest product wins' is also missing the Airstream RV, and many other quality oriented brands, market positioning. When people hear Airstream RV, what image comes to mind? Is Airstream RV building and strengthening this or is it weakening it?

The contradictions in WBCCI bylaws and policies is an example of the same kind of confusion that brand dillution illustrates. The basic purpose of WBCCI is shared with many other RV organizations. The question is about what makes it unique and different and special with its own identity.

You can see people searching for this identity in how they choose to participate. You can see it in terms of vitality and growth as compared to those units that have degenerated into social clubs with minimal or no growth.

IMHO, both Airstream and WBCCI have resorted to gimmicks and tricks to paint over ills rather than address the fundamental issues behind their problems. If you look, you can see these fundamental issues crying to be heard. The CCD isn't a 'compete on cost' product and is easily identified as an Airstream. The VAC is saying something to WBCCI. too. So are the vigorous units.

I don't think the message is about catering and pandering to those who don't have time to do much with their RV. It isn't financial benefit of belonging to WBCCI. But maybe it just might have something to do with Wally's idea of adventure centered on a unique type and style of RV.
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Old 01-25-2006, 10:54 AM   #21
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From what I can extrapilate from all the different posts and reading the Constitution and By-Laws of WBCCI for the layman who just wants to camp this can be a Maze of unwanted politics.

I have never been to a Delegates meeting - nor and International (YET)

But reading Article XVI Amendments - gives me this interpretation.

If an amendment is inititated from the Unit - then it must receive 2/3'rd majority vote - have the Unit President Sig, Then the Regions sig plus be put to the Region for a 2/3'rd Majoroity Vote of that Region - in order to be accepted at HQ to be circulated to all Chartered Units.

However, amendments submitted by the Board of Trustess and by the International President do not have to go through the same process as a Charted Unit in order to be presented to the whole membership.

Thus for example - a Region President could arbitrarily submit an amendment at an IBT meeting without the full 2/3rd consent of his/her Region and Charter Units within that Region. The Article specifically relates to the UNIT only as to the 2/3rd process affirmation of the proposed amendment to be considered.

The Executive of the IBT - should only be allowed to put motions of "operational" value forth - and not Constitutional Amendments - this is where I see some major confusion. But then again the WBCCI By-law committee - task force may be working on these issues as we speak????

Which brings me full circle to the point at hand. Obviously it must have been tossed around at some point for an amendment to go through. But as they say we can always submitt new amendments with more justifiable rationale to the motions we present........
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Old 01-25-2006, 11:05 AM   #22
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I know the ammendment wasn't started at our unit. Whether we were voting back to the region or for IBT consideration escapes me at this point. If it was for the region, then maybe that's why we haven't heard of an IBT vote at this time. I think I'll drop a line to our unit pres. and see if is aware of the standing of this issue.

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Old 01-25-2006, 11:06 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leipper
.......I don't think the message is about catering and pandering to those who don't have time to do much with their RV. It isn't financial benefit of belonging to WBCCI. But maybe it just might have something to do with Wally's idea of adventure centered on a unique type and style of RV.
Well said Bryan (sorry I must have be en typing the same time as you.) I was responding to Jcanavera.

I'm not sure if any of us here will ever get to the bottom of these issues- but we can sure have fun and get the blood puming in our efforts.

I honestly don't think a person who buys anything airstream is any different than the next fellow. I think the basecamp is cool - and if I was younger I probably would buy one. I also think the new rigs are really really nice too and hope one day to buy one of them in the future - but right now I like my Vintage rig for much of the same reasons I would buy either the smaller Basecamp or the larger Classic, Safari or whatever. It meets my camping needs, my finanical needs and my towing capablity needs - that also tie in with my financial needs and it pleases me to look at and entertain in.
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Old 01-25-2006, 11:19 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivetedude
WBCCI isn't planning on allowing Basecamp owners into the club. Why the @!^$ not? In a market where the cheapest product wins (Wal-Mart is the largest company in the world and they sell junk), why would the WBCCI not want those large numbers pouring in?
Riverdude's statement is incorrect and likely based on uninformed heresay. I was at the WBCCI IBT meeting last July when the Basecamp issue came up for a vote. Here is what happened. Some IBT members argued passionately to immediately accept the Basecamp and allow Basecamp owners to become full-fledged WBCCI members, generally for the same reasons members owning vintage Airstreams are welcomed. Others were more cautious and wanted to see an actual Baseamp before voting. A few members from the floor remarked the proposal smacked of corporate lackyism and was nothing more than bowing to the marketing schemes of Airstream, Inc. There was a diversity of opinons expressed.

After further discussion, including the fact the Basecamp was then only a concept on paper, not in production and was not scheduled to be produced for another six months or so, the IBT deferred voting on the resolution until after the Basecamp became a production trailer. In other words, the IBT wanted to see an actual Basecamp before voting on the membership qualification issue, perferring an informed vote over a vote based only on a concept subject to change before production commenced. That IBT decision to defer the vote seems reasonable to me, but I'm sure others will step up on this Forum to shellack the IBT for being too cautious.
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Old 01-25-2006, 11:25 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcanavera
I know the ammendment wasn't started at our unit. Whether we were voting back to the region or for IBT consideration escapes me at this point. If it was for the region, then maybe that's why we haven't heard of an IBT vote at this time. I think I'll drop a line to our unit pres. and see if is aware of the standing of this issue.

Jack

Just another issue.... the confusion that is generated across the Country and North America.

A simple process of posting all adopted motions - whether these motions are for Unit/Delegate Vote - or are motions put into affect at the delegates meeting.

It would not take much for each Unit to post their adopted motions.
Then the Region to post their Adopted motions
Then the Delegate meeting to post the Adopted motions from that meeting
and Finally any motions adopted by the IBT beyond the "day to day" operations to be posted for all members to read.

Now that would be a great effort to communicate and keep things consistent.

As it happens now - you get one Regions interpretation to another IBT member and Committee members posting their opinions or wording in the Blue Beret.

The Board I used to belong to posted their minutes within 10 business days - only those motions adopted and each motion was supplied with a Rationale. Motions that we of "day to day " business where numbered but not written out in full for public view - this would be office staff house cleaning items, or special motions for awards that were kept confidential until the awards events too place and other motions of that nature.

There was NO confusion.

what would it take - for the Recording Secreatary to type up the motions - Fax/mail or e-mail to 12 Regions and 146 Units. Then the units can also use the means available to them to post verbatim.
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Old 01-25-2006, 11:31 AM   #26
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47 Weewind- My point exactly.

If there were adopted motions with IBT rationale available - then all this conjecture and mis- information would not be an issue. Members would know what is going on and what the rationale behind the approved motions were.

In this case - it makes perfect sense - and instead of those IBT members being labled negatively - they would be labled the ones with a bit of administrative common sense.

Just as the new Classic Motorhome - now put on hold. Motions put in place and amending a constitution to facilitate an entity that has not been manufactured yet - would be kind of funny

The IBT is a Public entity with expenses paid by membership fees - the Adopted Motions of any meeting should not be confidential they should be public knowledge with respect to the public Constitution, By-Laws, and Policies.
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Old 01-25-2006, 12:07 PM   #27
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W Span

For WBCCI political junkies and others, perhaps we should ask the IBT to stream their business meetings live over the Internet in real time, and call it: W Span! [not to be confused with W Spam]. Of couse, it would also be available for downloading and/or playback at the viewer's convenience under the Meetings-On-Demand channel. Those who sit through it more than once qualify for Wally Points, redeemable for a Forum avatar that is guaranteed to offend at least 3 associative groups, tribes, races, religions, spiritual assemblies, ethnicities, herds, subcultures, supracultures, alt-delete cultures, co-operatives, un-cooperatives, anarcharists, etc., etc. (no offense intended by the drift of this posting, implied, perceived or otherwise, unless specifcially imentioned, in which case you may wish to shield your eyes to avoid emotional adversity).

The Most Gentle and Delicate Wee Wind
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Old 01-25-2006, 04:14 PM   #28
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Oh. how I envy your ability with words. I have to copy that and memorize it so I can spew it out on occassion.
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