WBCCI or Airstream Camping Club

[2airishuman]

it's interesting that folks IN the wb' see forum rallies and our connections HERE....

as competition for the club.

i've seen this noted several times now and by some well known wb'ers...

it's sad really they might think that's true OR promote this notion of the airforums as hurting the club...

all the while USING these forums for LOTS of wb' related functions (instead of the wb' forum) .

it is really 2bad that all the wb' issues seem to be caused by outsiders, economics, thor and so on...

cheers
2air'

[TBRich]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

it's interesting that folks IN the wb' see forum rallies and our connections HERE....

as competition for the club.

i've seen this noted several times now and by some well known wb'ers...

it's sad really they might think that's true OR promote this notion of the airforums as hurting the club...

all the while USING these forums for LOTS of wb' related functions (instead of the wb' forum) .

it is really 2bad that all the wb' issues seem to be caused by outsiders, economics, thor and so on...

cheers
2air'

As a non-WBCCI member (so far) I agree...why is it interpreted that membership and participation in the Airforums and Airforums rallies is somehow an act of "anti-WBCCI"? I don't get that. I would think that the WBCCI would welcome any effort—no matter its source—to promote and celebrate the Airstream lifestyle. One only leads to the other, IMHO.

In case the WBCCI hasn't noticed, there are many members of the WBCCI who are also active members of the Airforums who promote the WBCCI far better than the WBCCI does on its own... We personally would have no use for the WBCCI based on its own efforts to enlist us as members...it has been feeble at best...

If/when we join WBCCI it will be SOLEY through the efforts of Airforum members who are also WBCCI members...and who are able and willing to extend a welcoming hand of inclusion...and promote activies that appeal to us. Outside of the information we have recieved from WBCCI/Airforums members, the only thing we see from WBCCI itself is unwanted drama, too much politics, and inner tormoil...

The WBCCI should be grateful that the Airforums offers a viable venue to discuss the issues at hand with those both in and outside the organization. I doubt anybody (members or not) really wants the WBCCI to die...most just want it to be more relevant and inclusive.

[cameront120]

Originally Posted by TBRich

If/when we join WBCCI it will be SOLEY through the efforts of Airforum members who are also WBCCI members...and who are able and willing to extend a welcoming hand of inclusion...and promote activies that appeal to us. Outside of the information we have recieved from WBCCI/Airforums members, the only thing we see from WBCCI itself is unwanted drama, too much politics, and inner tormoil...

The WBCCI should be grateful that the Airforums offers a viable venue to discuss the issues at hand with those both in and outside the organization. I doubt anybody (members or not) really wants the WBCCI to die...most just want it to be more relevant and inclusive.

I couldn't have said it better!

[norsea]

Originally Posted by TBRich

<SNIPPY>

...the only thing we see from WBCCI itself is unwanted drama, too much politics, and inner tormoil...

The WBCCI should be grateful that the Airforums offers a viable venue to discuss the issues at hand with those both in and outside the organization. I doubt anybody (members or not) really wants the WBCCI to die...most just want it to be more relevant and inclusive.

I am aware of many social clubs associated with a single marquee; perhaps this is NOT the norm in the RV world but it is in the car/truck/motorcycle world.

In every instance additional clubs were formed because the available clubs were not providing whatever it was the people that formed the new clubs wanted.

Personally I don't think it is possible for a single club to be all things to all people. Does one auto manufacturer produce what EVERYONE wants? Of course not. Is it realistic to think that a single social club can provide everything that everyone wants in a club? I do not think so.

I do know that I am not about to give money to ANY organization over which I have no control/input. I am amazed there are as many people willing to give the WBCCI money under the current conditions. The fact that these conditions have existed since the inception of the club does nothing in my mind to mitigate the issue.

The WBCCI obviously DOES meet many peoples' requirements for a social club. Not a problem for me. I see no reason for WBCCI members get excited when someone suggests an alternative to the WBCCI. One size does NOT fit all. A second Airstream Club might be a very nice thing for those of us who are not willing to participate in the WBCCI.

I gave a lot of thought to 2air's suggestion to start another thread as a poll about a second Airstream Club. I am not sure this would produce any results that would be meaningful; especially considering how much this has been addressed in these forums. I suspect that it would just be a continuation of this thread as this thread is a continuation of others on the subject as 2air pointed out above.

What would be meaningful? Well, like minded folks could start a group here on the forum and explore what would be involved to start a new Airsteram Club. Anyone care to join me in that effort?

Rather than using this thread as a place to conduct such an exercise I suggest anyone interested in exploring the formation of a new Airstream Club PM me.

Jim

[TBRich]

Jim (norsea)...It was not my intention to imply that there is not room for another Airstream club...you are right...a single club is probably not able to be everything to all people. The WBCCI certainly does not have a monopoly on the "club" concept. What I was trying to say is that the WBCCI is wrong to think of the Airforums as an "enemy organization"...there is plenty of aluminum to go around, and membership in one does not preclude membership in another.

[05ModPod]

Just my two cents...

Without reading thoroughly but more skimming - as I have read these kinds of threads and have participated in many too for over 4 years now.


Looking for a new Airstream Club - there is one and it is right here.

Where WBCCI does not meet Airstreamer needs - Airstreamers both WBCCI members and Air Forum members alike - congregate here. As a result there are Rallies abundant. There are gatherings, there are even Caravans. Some are non WBCCI "official" events or activities but none the less they are still a happening that gathers the "Airstreamer"

What is missing is the rules, the official badges, the numbers in the Directory for unofficial Caravans - but what you get is the camaraderie you want in the manner in which you are looking for. Be it a WBCCI official event or an Air Forums event - or even another "camping/traveling" type of orgnaization - does it really matter when fun is the order of the day.

Those who wish to continue to push forward with change will do so. Those who give a little and see little progress too late - will move on and satisfy their needs in other means.

I tip my hat to all those who show enthusiasm for any "gathering of the Aistreamer Clan" in any shape or form - it is a worthwhile effort.

But I have to agree with the first post here. Why do the two factions keep bashing heads....when they could just work together - which unofficial we have been ever since these forums were started - when was that 02???

The wealth of information that is found here far exceeds a day to day exchange from WBCCI - but the collective history of WBCCI in the substance of "Aristream" in its raw sense far exceeds these forums.

If People could just find a happy peace between the two then your days will be filled with double the amount of pleasure......

I got my red numbers - and I may or may not attend WBCCI events - just as I may or may not attend forum events. I may or may not read the BB or I may or may not scan the forums for some interesting conversation.

I am just glad that the "choice" is always available....

Happy Airstreaming to you all - and may you all find some sort of peace and happiness in your Airstreaming endeavours...

[3streams]

We are members of the WBCCI and WDCU and active participants in the Forums- we enjoy both groups and hopefully there is an inclusive solution in the future. We will probably always be members of the WBCCI and of course the WDCU but would also consider joining another Airstream club and we will probably join Tin Can Tourist one day also. We attended our first International rally this year and I had the opportunity to be the delegate and got a first hand encounter with the politics of the WBCCI - whew! However- there is too much history to throw in the towel and start a new club. Like Shari says- time will come and people will change- give it a chance. Not to mention- there are probably logistic nightmares with starting a second club without the support of Airstream - especially if you can't use the name Airstream or a logo of an Airstream! There shouldn't be tension between the forums and the WBCCI- different strokes for different folks- it would be nice to see them work together. In fact- all Airstream related companies, forums, websites, supporters, ect should all be working together. If everyone started sharing resources and working together we could probably patch together some holes in the history of our hobby and elevate our hobby to be more accessible level and create some better lines of communication.

Anyway- enough ranting and carrying on! We love our Airstreams and we will participate in almost anything Airstream related. If someone goes to the trouble of starting a new club we will join- but don't expect us to forfeit our membership to the WBCCI in order to do so.

[2airishuman]

sorry norsea...

it wasn't my intention to hijack the 'start a new club' thread...

i support the idea completely, and think a new product based association would have great potential...

and i'd join no doubt!

my last note was in response to bobB's post (#19) about "start a new unit, siphoning away and being cheap"...

i think i've read a couple of very similar new posts from the same member in other threads.

Originally Posted by GT1963

Why do the two factions keep bashing heads....when they could just work together -
which unofficial we have been ever since these forums were started - when was that 02???

The wealth of information that is found here far exceeds a day to day exchange from WBCCI -
but the collective history of WBCCI in the substance of "Aristream" in its raw sense far exceeds these forums....

it may be partly true that the wb' has history on it's side...

and i like looking at old b/w pics as much as other a/s owners...

but history doesn't make travel and camping and fun happen.

too much time looking BACKWARD gives me a neck cramp!

some folks in the wb are and do work for the wellbeing of both these forums and the wb'...

but SOME very known and current up and coming wb'ers who hand here...

ALSO promote the message that air forums and air forums rallies are competition...

these folks USE the forums to recruit for the wb, brag about their rallies and so on,

while minimizing the value of this NEW approach to 'streaming and

trying to limit info about forum rallies getting to wb folks or a/s folks...

history means LESS to me than camping, gathering and traveling NOW...

having owned and traveled and enjoyed an a/s for almost 30 years....

MY OWN CAMPING has WAY more meaning to me than the wb'

but i try NOT (never) to tell campfire stories about aluminum travel 'way back when...'

cheers
2air'

[05ModPod]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

it may be partly true that the wb' has history on it's side...

and i like looking at old b/w pics as much as other a/s owners...

To which history are we speaking - BW Photos or the 50+ years of Club existence - I think I was referring to the past present and possibly the future and the general sense of the Clubs history in comparison to this forums infancy.

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

but history doesn't make travel and camping and fun happen.

too much time looking BACKWARD gives me a neck cramp!.....

history means LESS to me than camping, gathering and traveling NOW...

having owned and traveled and enjoyed an a/s for almost 30 years....

MY OWN CAMPING has WAY more meaning to me than the wb'

but i try NOT (never) to tell campfire stories about aluminum travel 'way back when...'

cheers
2air'

Could not agree more...

I have not traveled and enjoyed an A/s anywhere near close to 30 years - but I sure do enjoy camping!

I too like Shari's comments.

But the one thing I see in such a "fortified" wb - is it's ability to overwhelm and overpower it's "new blood" - you know the "new blood" that we all count on to help change the wb - unfortunately with single year terms and progressive offices and the rules of progression - by the time the "new blood" get into the influencing positions - they are spent and their fighting power has been pulled to bits with the destructive political path they have had to endure from all fronts.

I have seen this both at the Local Unit Level and the International Level. I wonder what happens at the Regional Level?

But like any war - the longer you keep throwing the lambs to the wolves - eventually the wolves will be full and fall asleep, thus the Lambs will prevail.

[dwightdi]

I think the voting at Bozeman this year prove you can not defeat the old guard. All the floor candiates (along with the floor candidate's recommendations) were defeated by block voting done by older term local presidents . The offically sanctioned candidates refuse to take a position on anything and therefore it is hard to run against them. The old guard continiously says they are looking to improve but year after year there are very little changes and the committees proposing changes have their recommendations put on the shelf and the committees dissolved. The organizational structure (that was adopted in 1963) guarentees all promotions and offices will be due to senority and personal friendships rather than ability or progressive intentions. We would need to have a complete failure of the club to force them to have a Constitutional Congress and reform the club's organization to allow it to become more progressive. There are too many old officers with personal vested interests to allow any radical changes which might effect them. I have been with the club for 14 years and am a past unit president and have interfaced with the Region and International officers over the years.

[3streams]

Originally Posted by dwightdi

I think the voting at Bozeman this year prove you can not defeat the old guard. All the floor candiates (along with the floor candidate's recommendations) were defeated by block voting done by older term local presidents . The offically sanctioned candidates refuse to take a position on anything and therefore it is hard to run against them. The old guard continiously says they are looking to improve but year after year there are very little changes and the committees proposing changes have their recommendations put on the shelf and the committees dissolved. The organizational structure (that was adopted in 1963) guarentees all promotions and offices will be due to senority and personal friendships rather than ability or progressive intentions. We would need to have a complete failure of the club to force them to have a Constitutional Congress and reform the club's organization to allow it to become more progressive. There are too many old officers with personal vested interests to allow any radical changes which might effect them. I have been with the club for 14 years and am a past unit president and have interfaced with the Region and International officers over the years.

Having been there and served as a delegate this year- I agree completely. It was like- "Why the h*ll are we even voting!" All the units just kept putting 100% of the votes to the "old guard" and the nominations never even stood a chance!! Every person should vote individually - via through snail mail ballot from the Blue Barrette or internet voting on the WBCCI website- I know way to progressive- won't ever happen! Frustrating- thats how I described my experience as a first timer delegate!

[RedSHED]

one member, one vote.

The option is that the WBCCI goes away.

[mbmbstreamer]

April-
You did a fantastic job making sure all votes cast by your unit were counted. I know the process is dated and slow, but change can only happen from within. We had a very interesting discussion in the Unit Leaders' Workshop on the topic of block voting. We were told that votes are to be cast proportional to the actual unit vote. The only other option is to cast votes that allow the delegate to vote his will. There were probably 40 or 50 folks in the session who represent a variety of units. I'm sure the topic of Block Voting will be discussed when each of us return to our Unit.

Dwightdi -
I saw a tremendous difference in the way the vote was received this year vs. Perry. Several Region officers I spoke with are supportive of change, but see it coming in slower than you would like. I think the old guard is looking for acceptable ways to give in to change.

Matt

[Trackers]

Hello Everyone,

First of all I am not a WBCCI member. I do own an Airstream. This is my first Airstream. I have always wanted one and finally found one that I could afford. I waited 54 years on it and I plan on enjoying it as long as I can with my wife.
After I bought it I did some researching on the net about Airstreams. I found this forum and a site from the WBCCI among others. After looking at the WBCCI VA region page I saw a name that was familiar. I sent him an email and we discussed the upcoming rally in Galax VA. I asked him if it was possible for me to come up and see some of the other Airstreams that would be there? He assured me that I would be welcome. My wife and I arrived at the rally and sure enough we were welcomed with open arms. We walked around the lot and everyone we met were the most friendly folks you would want to meet. Everyone answered our Airstream questions and offered tours of their Airstreams. It was a pleasure meeting WBCCI international and regional leaders.
I gained a lot of valuable information on towing hitches and maintenance that would be needed on my unit. One nice guy and his Son from Denver NC pointed out several great things on the type of towing hitch that worked the best concerning anti-sway. Also some good information on airconditioning and awnings.
These fine folks of the VA Region invited my Wife and I to attend some of their planned activities for the week and to just come along and enjoy ourselves. All this and I am not even a member of the WBCCI. I have read the past posts concerning change etc and I have came to the conclusion that with my experience with the VA region and members from NC. What changes need to be made? I don't know all the facts within the WBCCI and about why griping is going on but I do know one thing. The WBCCI people I met at the Galax Rally were all super nice folks. I contacted the WBCCI about becoming a part of this organization after seeing how genuine these folks really were. I would be proud to a part of the WBCCI if everyone is as nice as the members I met in Galax.

[DEITZ645]

Originally Posted by Trackers

Hello Everyone,

First of all I am not a WBCCI member. I do own an Airstream. This is my first Airstream. I have always wanted one and finally found one that I could afford. I waited 54 years on it and I plan on enjoying it as long as I can with my wife.
After I bought it I did some researching on the net about Airstreams. I found this forum and a site from the WBCCI among others. After looking at the WBCCI VA region page I saw a name that was familiar. I sent him an email and we discussed the upcoming rally in Galax VA. I asked him if it was possible for me to come up and see some of the other Airstreams that would be there? He assured me that I would be welcome. My wife and I arrived at the rally and sure enough we were welcomed with open arms. We walked around the lot and everyone we met were the most friendly folks you would want to meet. Everyone answered our Airstream questions and offered tours of their Airstreams. It was a pleasure meeting WBCCI international and regional leaders.
I gained a lot of valuable information on towing hitches and maintenance that would be needed on my unit. One nice guy and his Son from Denver NC pointed out several great things on the type of towing hitch that worked the best concerning anti-sway. Also some good information on airconditioning and awnings.
These fine folks of the VA Region invited my Wife and I to attend some of their planned activities for the week and to just come along and enjoy ourselves. All this and I am not even a member of the WBCCI. I have read the past posts concerning change etc and I have came to the conclusion that with my experience with the VA region and members from NC. What changes need to be made? I don't know all the facts within the WBCCI and about why griping is going on but I do know one thing. The WBCCI people I met at the Galax Rally were all super nice folks. I contacted the WBCCI about becoming a part of this organization after seeing how genuine these folks really were. I would be proud to a part of the WBCCI if everyone is as nice as the members I met in Galax.

Trackers,
First, welcome aboard. I think most everybody has no issues with their local WBCCI units. The local units and functions are where are the fun is. I believe the griping and complaining starts ashen you get up to the international level and their resistance to change. If you have found a unit you like, by all means join up, and enjoy what the WBCCI has to offer at the local level. As you participate more, you will then learn more about what sticks in peoples craws about the high leadership of the WBCCI. If you find the WBCCI isn't for you, then there is a simple solution...stop paying the dues.

[mbmbstreamer]

Welcome aboard Trackers! All of us who are members of the
WBCCI joined because we really want to be here. We aren't concerned as much about our units as with the management at the International. We are very concerned with the club's inability to attract and retain new members. Since you found friends within the unit, you are an excellent example of how new membership is supposed to work.

Unfortunately, there are many new members who join as MALs (members at large) and never connect with a unit, or experience a unit that does not hold their interest. These folks leave the club, even though they love the product.

We are worried about the long term survival of the club as THE Airstream Camping Club. The International leaders have not yet found the solution to membership decline. The answer is change and we are trying to help the club understand the need for that change.

In short, ENJOY the club. We're glad you joined. New members are the future of the club.

Matt