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Old 07-20-2008, 06:37 PM   #15
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Jim:

Why don't you set this question up as a poll. You will probably get the response you are looking for. Joining a second club doesn't mean you can't belong to the WBCCI.
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Old 07-20-2008, 07:13 PM   #16
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isn't there an a/s model with a strippers POLL inside?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebird View Post
Why don't you set this question up as a poll...
good idea, and i recall this being done a year or 2 ago...

but cannot locate the thread.

here are some relevant/related sir-vaz ....

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f232...long-2345.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...poll-8493.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...rvey-8494.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...mbers-930.html

and some less related examples...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f232...cci-19757.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f232...poll-6349.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...ave-30841.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...oll-29426.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...oll-17875.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...oll-19712.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...sue-31629.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...oll-28512.html

cheers
2air'
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Old 07-20-2008, 09:32 PM   #17
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Most people miss the point about changing the club from within others totally get it . I think that I and others like Shari get it. At some point in the clubs history the people our age will be in charge as others die off. We will to and those that come behind us will hope that we to die some day. However the day is coming when we will be in charge and things will change . I think if you give the new WBCCI president and his successor a chance they are for change and want to bring the younger people into the club because the realize that we are the future of the club . Nothing stays the same so help WBCCI change .It will the Lord willing and the creek doesn't rise. Just my two cents

Absolutely agree. I do not believe it's necessary to "throw the baby out with the bathwater", so to speak. Change happens as new people come in and influence events/issues based on merits of their ideas.

WBCCI has been around for some time, got history and knowledge. If one doesn't like it, don't join. If you do but don't like the politics, change 'em. Won't be easy though...
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Old 07-21-2008, 09:34 PM   #18
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You may not believe the 2020 Committee will have impact, but the members of the committee were appointed by the leadership and through my discussions with them are very sincere in the desire for change. They also believe it can be done. Toward that end, they have asked for CONSTRUCTIVE feedback on the WBCCI Forum and provided a thread for input. If you don't offer input, you can't expect change.

A camping club? In case you haven't noticed, there are a lot of Camping activities within the WBCCI. Take a look at the activities of Metro NY, WDCU, 4CU, El Camino Real, and the various region VAC rallies.

Don't care for the structure and rules? The club is responsible for jointly held assets and cash and has thousands of owners. Rules and Rights are required to fend off the lawyers. These same rules have helped the club survive several attempts by the IBT to take the club in ill advised directions.

We are still working, have kids in H.S. and have enjoyed 2 Air Forums Rallies. We also have enjoyed 2 Internationals, a National Rally, and numerous Unit rallies. These are opportunities to meet new friends and spend time with old friends.

I love the history of the club and the product. We are in for change and realize it will take TIME.

Matt
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Old 08-07-2008, 02:05 AM   #19
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Can't you simply form a Unit?
Or make a Unit rally anything you want it to be?
I so hate to see forums rallies, siphoning off the memberships that WBCCI needs.
Do you think it's possible that there are some people that are so cheap, thay don't want to spend the money joining? WBCCI?
Just curious.
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Old 08-07-2008, 07:04 AM   #20
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If the alternatives to the WBCCI are "siphoning off the memberships the WBCCI needs" it is because there is a need that the WBCCI is not fulfilling.
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Old 08-07-2008, 07:27 PM   #21
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it's interesting that folks IN the wb' see forum rallies and our connections HERE....

as competition for the club.

i've seen this noted several times now and by some well known wb'ers...

it's sad really they might think that's true OR promote this notion of the airforums as hurting the club...

all the while USING these forums for LOTS of wb' related functions (instead of the wb' forum) .

it is really 2bad that all the wb' issues seem to be caused by outsiders, economics, thor and so on...

cheers
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Old 08-07-2008, 07:53 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
it's interesting that folks IN the wb' see forum rallies and our connections HERE....

as competition for the club.

i've seen this noted several times now and by some well known wb'ers...

it's sad really they might think that's true OR promote this notion of the airforums as hurting the club...

all the while USING these forums for LOTS of wb' related functions (instead of the wb' forum) .

it is really 2bad that all the wb' issues seem to be caused by outsiders, economics, thor and so on...

cheers
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As a non-WBCCI member (so far) I agree...why is it interpreted that membership and participation in the Airforums and Airforums rallies is somehow an act of "anti-WBCCI"? I don't get that. I would think that the WBCCI would welcome any effort—no matter its source—to promote and celebrate the Airstream lifestyle. One only leads to the other, IMHO.

In case the WBCCI hasn't noticed, there are many members of the WBCCI who are also active members of the Airforums who promote the WBCCI far better than the WBCCI does on its own... We personally would have no use for the WBCCI based on its own efforts to enlist us as members...it has been feeble at best...

If/when we join WBCCI it will be SOLEY through the efforts of Airforum members who are also WBCCI members...and who are able and willing to extend a welcoming hand of inclusion...and promote activies that appeal to us. Outside of the information we have recieved from WBCCI/Airforums members, the only thing we see from WBCCI itself is unwanted drama, too much politics, and inner tormoil...

The WBCCI should be grateful that the Airforums offers a viable venue to discuss the issues at hand with those both in and outside the organization. I doubt anybody (members or not) really wants the WBCCI to die...most just want it to be more relevant and inclusive.
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:03 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by TBRich View Post

If/when we join WBCCI it will be SOLEY through the efforts of Airforum members who are also WBCCI members...and who are able and willing to extend a welcoming hand of inclusion...and promote activies that appeal to us. Outside of the information we have recieved from WBCCI/Airforums members, the only thing we see from WBCCI itself is unwanted drama, too much politics, and inner tormoil...

The WBCCI should be grateful that the Airforums offers a viable venue to discuss the issues at hand with those both in and outside the organization. I doubt anybody (members or not) really wants the WBCCI to die...most just want it to be more relevant and inclusive.
I couldn't have said it better!
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:49 PM   #24
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A new Airstream Club?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBRich View Post

<SNIPPY>

...the only thing we see from WBCCI itself is unwanted drama, too much politics, and inner tormoil...

The WBCCI should be grateful that the Airforums offers a viable venue to discuss the issues at hand with those both in and outside the organization. I doubt anybody (members or not) really wants the WBCCI to die...most just want it to be more relevant and inclusive.
I am aware of many social clubs associated with a single marquee; perhaps this is NOT the norm in the RV world but it is in the car/truck/motorcycle world.

In every instance additional clubs were formed because the available clubs were not providing whatever it was the people that formed the new clubs wanted.

Personally I don't think it is possible for a single club to be all things to all people. Does one auto manufacturer produce what EVERYONE wants? Of course not. Is it realistic to think that a single social club can provide everything that everyone wants in a club? I do not think so.

I do know that I am not about to give money to ANY organization over which I have no control/input. I am amazed there are as many people willing to give the WBCCI money under the current conditions. The fact that these conditions have existed since the inception of the club does nothing in my mind to mitigate the issue.

The WBCCI obviously DOES meet many peoples' requirements for a social club. Not a problem for me. I see no reason for WBCCI members get excited when someone suggests an alternative to the WBCCI. One size does NOT fit all. A second Airstream Club might be a very nice thing for those of us who are not willing to participate in the WBCCI.

I gave a lot of thought to 2air's suggestion to start another thread as a poll about a second Airstream Club. I am not sure this would produce any results that would be meaningful; especially considering how much this has been addressed in these forums. I suspect that it would just be a continuation of this thread as this thread is a continuation of others on the subject as 2air pointed out above.

What would be meaningful? Well, like minded folks could start a group here on the forum and explore what would be involved to start a new Airsteram Club. Anyone care to join me in that effort?

Rather than using this thread as a place to conduct such an exercise I suggest anyone interested in exploring the formation of a new Airstream Club PM me.

Jim
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Old 08-07-2008, 09:07 PM   #25
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Jim (norsea)...It was not my intention to imply that there is not room for another Airstream club...you are right...a single club is probably not able to be everything to all people. The WBCCI certainly does not have a monopoly on the "club" concept. What I was trying to say is that the WBCCI is wrong to think of the Airforums as an "enemy organization"...there is plenty of aluminum to go around, and membership in one does not preclude membership in another.
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Old 08-07-2008, 09:30 PM   #26
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Just my two cents...

Without reading thoroughly but more skimming - as I have read these kinds of threads and have participated in many too for over 4 years now.


Looking for a new Airstream Club - there is one and it is right here.

Where WBCCI does not meet Airstreamer needs - Airstreamers both WBCCI members and Air Forum members alike - congregate here. As a result there are Rallies abundant. There are gatherings, there are even Caravans. Some are non WBCCI "official" events or activities but none the less they are still a happening that gathers the "Airstreamer"

What is missing is the rules, the official badges, the numbers in the Directory for unofficial Caravans - but what you get is the camaraderie you want in the manner in which you are looking for. Be it a WBCCI official event or an Air Forums event - or even another "camping/traveling" type of orgnaization - does it really matter when fun is the order of the day.

Those who wish to continue to push forward with change will do so. Those who give a little and see little progress too late - will move on and satisfy their needs in other means.

I tip my hat to all those who show enthusiasm for any "gathering of the Aistreamer Clan" in any shape or form - it is a worthwhile effort.

But I have to agree with the first post here. Why do the two factions keep bashing heads....when they could just work together - which unofficial we have been ever since these forums were started - when was that 02???

The wealth of information that is found here far exceeds a day to day exchange from WBCCI - but the collective history of WBCCI in the substance of "Aristream" in its raw sense far exceeds these forums.

If People could just find a happy peace between the two then your days will be filled with double the amount of pleasure......

I got my red numbers - and I may or may not attend WBCCI events - just as I may or may not attend forum events. I may or may not read the BB or I may or may not scan the forums for some interesting conversation.

I am just glad that the "choice" is always available....

Happy Airstreaming to you all - and may you all find some sort of peace and happiness in your Airstreaming endeavours...
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Old 08-07-2008, 09:43 PM   #27
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We are members of the WBCCI and WDCU and active participants in the Forums- we enjoy both groups and hopefully there is an inclusive solution in the future. We will probably always be members of the WBCCI and of course the WDCU but would also consider joining another Airstream club and we will probably join Tin Can Tourist one day also. We attended our first International rally this year and I had the opportunity to be the delegate and got a first hand encounter with the politics of the WBCCI - whew! However- there is too much history to throw in the towel and start a new club. Like Shari says- time will come and people will change- give it a chance. Not to mention- there are probably logistic nightmares with starting a second club without the support of Airstream - especially if you can't use the name Airstream or a logo of an Airstream! There shouldn't be tension between the forums and the WBCCI- different strokes for different folks- it would be nice to see them work together. In fact- all Airstream related companies, forums, websites, supporters, ect should all be working together. If everyone started sharing resources and working together we could probably patch together some holes in the history of our hobby and elevate our hobby to be more accessible level and create some better lines of communication.

Anyway- enough ranting and carrying on! We love our Airstreams and we will participate in almost anything Airstream related. If someone goes to the trouble of starting a new club we will join- but don't expect us to forfeit our membership to the WBCCI in order to do so.
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Old 08-07-2008, 09:45 PM   #28
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sorry norsea...

it wasn't my intention to hijack the 'start a new club' thread...

i support the idea completely, and think a new product based association would have great potential...

and i'd join no doubt!

my last note was in response to bobB's post (#19) about "start a new unit, siphoning away and being cheap"...

i think i've read a couple of very similar new posts from the same member in other threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GT1963 View Post
Why do the two factions keep bashing heads....when they could just work together -
which unofficial we have been ever since these forums were started - when was that 02???

The wealth of information that is found here far exceeds a day to day exchange from WBCCI -
but the collective history of WBCCI in the substance of "Aristream" in its raw sense far exceeds these forums....
it may be partly true that the wb' has history on it's side...

and i like looking at old b/w pics as much as other a/s owners...

but history doesn't make travel and camping and fun happen.

too much time looking BACKWARD gives me a neck cramp!

some folks in the wb are and do work for the wellbeing of both these forums and the wb'...

but SOME very known and current up and coming wb'ers who hand here...

ALSO promote the message that air forums and air forums rallies are competition...

these folks USE the forums to recruit for the wb, brag about their rallies and so on,

while minimizing the value of this NEW approach to 'streaming and

trying to limit info about forum rallies getting to wb folks or a/s folks...

history means LESS to me than camping, gathering and traveling NOW...

having owned and traveled and enjoyed an a/s for almost 30 years....

MY OWN CAMPING has WAY more meaning to me than the wb'

but i try NOT (never) to tell campfire stories about aluminum travel 'way back when...'

cheers
2air'
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