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Old 02-22-2010, 09:17 PM   #29
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I've got to give my 2 cents worth, so here goes.
Joe,

Thanks for your reasoned comments regarding this thread.

I'd like to explore one issue that you have suggested in your post that continues to appear both here and on the WBCCI forums. That being the idea that we need to keep the good and the bad on separate threads. Seems that many think this is crucial and others (myself included) think it is imperative to always offer a balance of good and bad as it exists. In my mind, if the good can't hold up to the burden of the bad this suggests there is room for improvement. Lacking positives can not be improved by concealing the negatives.

I think we should all strive to have our virtues hold up to the scrutiny of our faults... this applies to the WBBCI as with everything else.
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Old 02-22-2010, 09:28 PM   #30
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yer still a little twerp
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:01 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by byamcaravanner View Post
Joe,

Thanks for your reasoned comments regarding this thread.

I'd like to explore one issue that you have suggested in your post that continues to appear both here and on the WBCCI forums. That being the idea that we need to keep the good and the bad on separate threads. Seems that many think this is crucial and others (myself included) think it is imperative to always offer a balance of good and bad as it exists. In my mind, if the good can't hold up to the burden of the bad this suggests there is room for improvement. Lacking positives can not be improved by concealing the negatives.

I think we should all strive to have our virtues hold up to the scrutiny of our faults... this applies to the WBBCI as with everything else.
Thank you Steve. I don't intend to get into a long discussion of the topic, but I offer a reply to your inquiry.

I don't think there is anyone that thinks that there is not room for improvement in WBCCI. On this thought, the EC7, IBT, and all members and non-members can agree. We just can't agree on what changes are needed.

The good to bad balance is a personal thing for all of us. Each person feels the balance differently. I personally feel the bad gets far more air time than the good (and that's not unusual for any topic unfortunately, not just the club, just look at the "Airstream quality" threads of even non-Airstream topics on other forums).

I think some of use just feel that the same negative things keep getting said and emphasized over and over in multiple threads - so much so that it seems personal at times. Maybe it's different persons with similar thoughts in many cases, but there seems to be little positive to balance it out, so it can become a little overwhelming.

I'm sure others will feel it differently. That's just where I am coming from.

And to take my own advice and balance things out with a little positive I'll note that almost all of the people we have met in WBCCI are great and we are glad to call them friends. Almost all the club events we have gone to have been enjoyable, some more than others, but none were awful. As a still working 40-something I feel fortunate to have been able to experience this club beyond just the local Unit level having tried out a few Special Event Rallies and a couple of Caravan's. We look forward to more when I retire, if the club is still viable then. We are definitely not "old school" members and clearly see areas for improvement, but after 6+ years in the club we continue to see value and continue to enjoy what we can.
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Old 02-23-2010, 06:51 AM   #32
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yer still a little twerp
Excuse me but are you a grown man? Why would you lower yourself so far as to call someone a twerp? Do all people you disagree with become twerps? How is that positive?

The biggest problem is people are very upset, pissed off about the situation and unfortunately there is absolutely zero venue to discuss it and work it out except on this forum. All of this should be over at the WBCCI forum, but there it would be 100% sanitized and as always NOTHING would be accomplished. All of you upset about all this negative stuff should be very grateful. YES GRATEFUL, for it is forcing your leaders to FINALLY take notice. For years the leadership has cared less about your opinions and desires. Due to all the discussions here and on SaveWally.org they are finally taking notice. Hopefully for all of you they pull the brake lever soon and a catastrophe will be avoided.

I hear Mrs. Schwamborn and Mr Byam mentioned all the time. Just to put things in to order...
The club was started in 1955 so you are looking at 55 years of the Club existing.
Mr. Byam died in 1962. That is less than 7 years of direct influence.
Mrs. Schwamborn retired from her role in the Club in 1979. Her influence was 24 years long. At the point of her retirement the membership was at its greatest.
In the last 31 years the membership has been on a steady decline.
This forum has been around for 8 years. It's membership has been on a steady increase. The decline is not the fault of this forum or the people disgusted and feed up with the WBCCI.

How about accepting the short comings and not blaming others for them.
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Old 02-23-2010, 07:16 AM   #33
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Frank,
I did not blame anyone for WBCCI's decline, not this forum or anyone that participate in it. My comments were of a personal nature and were meant to incite thought and compassion, not rage.

Your comments are way off base and are causing me to stop participating in this thread. I should have known better than to try to smooth things over a little and spread a little positive about WBCCI. I hope you enjoy TAC - I won't be joining.

Goodbye.
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Old 02-23-2010, 08:31 AM   #34
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Frank,
I did not blame anyone for WBCCI's decline
Joe,

Frank was not referring to YOUR comments.... look who he quoted.
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Old 02-23-2010, 08:50 AM   #35
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the sanctimonious self-admiration used to justify personal attacks belongs in the garbage
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RESPECT YER ELDERS< ya little twerp>
Seems a touch ironic to me...

As mentioned by others above, I disagree with this part of the thread being removed from the self-admiring WBCCI is awesome thread - but that's not my choice.

Tom
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Old 02-23-2010, 10:25 AM   #36
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As mentioned by others above, I disagree with this part of the thread being removed from the self-admiring WBCCI is awesome thread - but that's not my choice.

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Kum bay ya, my Lord, kum bay ya,
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Old 02-23-2010, 10:46 AM   #37
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Joe,

Frank was not referring to YOUR comments.... look who he quoted.
I cant tell who was being called names, I assumed it was me on account of the 'sanctimonious' reference. Doesn't matter; been called worse, been thrown out of nicer places. BTW "respect your elders" is the last resort when force of argument fails, pretty much the equivalent of a "because I say so" argument.
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Old 02-23-2010, 11:05 AM   #38
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pretty much the equivalent of a "because I say so" argument.
LOL! I use that one on my kids all the time.
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Old 02-23-2010, 11:16 AM   #39
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Respecting my elders does NOT give them carte blanche to act irresponsibly and do as they please at everyone else's expense.
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Old 02-23-2010, 11:34 AM   #40
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The 'elder', in this case, was a reference to Pee Wee...
The response to "sanctimonious" pretty much says it all...
I may be older, but I have a right to be as immature as I want...as much as you have the right to try to lecture me on my obvious ignorance to your superior intellect and judgement...your cross, not mine...
Ironic...??? let's see...ScrapIrony...hmmm...
Grown up??? AM TOO!!! ARE NOT!!! AM TOO!!! etc, etc.
OK, gonna go hold my breath, now...
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Old 02-23-2010, 11:52 AM   #41
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Fair and balanced?

Quote:
Originally Posted by byamcaravanner View Post
Joe,

Thanks for your reasoned comments regarding this thread.

I'd like to explore one issue that you have suggested in your post that continues to appear both here and on the WBCCI forums. That being the idea that we need to keep the good and the bad on separate threads. Seems that many think this is crucial and others (myself included) think it is imperative to always offer a balance of good and bad as it exists. In my mind, if the good can't hold up to the burden of the bad this suggests there is room for improvement. Lacking positives can not be improved by concealing the negatives.

I think we should all strive to have our virtues hold up to the scrutiny of our faults... this applies to the WBBCI as with everything else.
All this talk about keeping the bad with the good in every thread sounds a bit righteous and self serving to the ON message group trying to expose the wbcci leadership shortcomings.

And I can assure you EVERYONE now knows about all the problems and are processing their own feelings about staying in, dropping out or whatever. To be reminded in other threads of these problems is getting on the nerves of even sympathic readers.

I think it was a line from Glen Garry Glen Ross where one of the salemen tells another after hearing him oversell on the phone...."YOU ALREADY SOLD IT, NOW STOP TALKING BEFORE YOU BUY IT BACK!!"

And labeling Dale's vintage photos and memories as wbcci propaganda is a reach. These collections where his memories from the golden days of travel trailers, caravans and ralles.

Bad form to lay out bait in his thread for the anti clubbers to jump in. You can decide who set the bait and who took it. This approach will not bring people together....only drive more wedges.
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:03 PM   #42
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And I can assure you EVERYONE now knows about all the problems and are processing their own feelings about staying in, dropping out or whatever.
Really? Then why is the WBCCI still getting away with it? My feeling is that a relative very few people know what is going on. As a matter of fact, I know of one unit President that has admitted to being in the dark.

We will know that enough people are aware when we start seeing positive change... so far the direction continues toward the negative. At least as I see it.
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