WBCCI New Name/Logo

[SierraBreeze]

I've been reading through the Blue Book to see what the voting procedures are. I understand the delegate business. The problem as I see it is that you (individually and as a unit) have to have a delegate in person at the appropriate meeting. That means if it is not possible to send a delegate then you have no voice and no input. THAT needs to change. Our unit is small, and many members are still working. It is very difficult to get someone to go to regional functions, never mind international functions. Another point, at least with our membership, they are not enthusiastic about going to a region or international rally because of the rules, structure, and feeling like an outsider. We try to encourage them but it is an uphill struggle. I am well aware that some rules and structure are necessary - but! On top of that, at least when I was considering going to the last Region rally, I read that if I wanted to attend the business meeting I would be expected to adhere to certain clothing requirements. I can even understand that to a certain extent. The voting system as defined by WBCCI, may be OK but there are serious problems with the communications about issues that need a vote and there definitely needs to be some review of how to include and enable all members to vote, whether or not they attend or have their delegates attend the appropriate meetings in the appropriate dress. Speaking of the blue book (the WBCCI bylaws and constitution) as I understand it, it is available to members for a fee. Certain officers are provided with a copy. To me it should be available on-line for all members. How in the world can you make good decisions unless you have the facts, the background, and an understanding of the how and why of an organizations operations.

Lastly, if the name is changed to Airstream Owners Association excluding Wally Byam, then I for one may be found non compliant because I think that is the worst possible choice that could be made. That's not even a compromise, It is capitulation, and in my opinion, for the wrong reasons.

[Stefrobrts]

I still don't understand the process, and what is going to be voted on at the IBT meeting? What is going to be voted on at the International Meeting? Seems like there's one option on the table, and no discussion or way of getting another option considered.

Were there other names to choose from and did we vote on those, or did our deligates? I don't understand why there seems to be one choice, and it's been decided, and it's just a matter of ok-ing it now.

[warbler5]

Originally Posted by SierraBreeze

I've been reading through the Blue Book to see what the voting procedures are...
On top of that, at least when I was considering going to the last Region rally, I read that if I wanted to attend the business meeting I would be expected to adhere to certain clothing requirements.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat???????? Unless jeans and a t-shirt are included on their list, you would NEVER see me at one of these get-togethers! I don't even own a dress!!! This is just another sad example of being stuck in the 1950's....

Getting away from this stupidity is much more important than changing the name of the club!

[InsideOut]

It is the responsibility of the President to have a delegate at the meeting for a vote, the president does not necessarily have to be that person, but must comminucate the unit's vote to the delegate.

As I understand it, the IBT Name Change Committee has been tasked with coming up with a name that will then brought to the delegates at International for either acceptance or not by a vote. If it does not pass, then the the IBT will go back to the drawing board and come up with another name until one is agreed upon.

Shari

[Buttercup]

Originally Posted by chuck

me too. a tiny portion of the 10,000+ forum membership participated. there's no way you can extrapolate from that poll that there are 5000 wbcci members here,

This is a perfectly reasonable way of estimating the feelings of the group as a whole. It works for Nielsen Media Research when rating the viewing habits of the American people and when plotting out the human genome. This method of estimation probably has a margin of error no more than 10 % but even at that the responses still indicate that 5 to 1 ratio Roy talks about is far outside the views expressed here. Ihis is somewhat irrelevant.

I believe what I see here (poll results, members responses here on the forums) before I believe an anecdotal response from just one individual any day.

[Chuck]

Its not reasonable. The numbers are so small, I question whether or not they are statistically significant. the neilsons poll millions; not 268. and the respondants are not self-selecting. A poll taken here is completely unscientific.

The fact that Roy's numbers are so different indicates that SOMEbody's answer to the question ("what does the membership want?") is completely and utterly wrong.

[Buttercup]

Originally Posted by chuck

Its not reasonable. The numbers are so small, I question whether or not they are statistically significant. the neilsons poll millions; not 268. and the respondants are not self-selecting. A poll taken here is completely unscientific.

The fact that Roy's numbers are so different indicates that SOMEbody's answer to the question ("what does the membership want?") is completely and utterly wrong.

Aaaa - O.K. - let's look at this ratio. For Nielson to have as many respondents to equal the ratio we are experiencing for our “unscientific poll” they would have to have almost 15 million people reporting TV watching for the population of this country alone. That is a lot of paperwork for them to be processing.


As a statistical analysis (and certainly for the informal purposes of this forum) – 5% respondents IS more than sufficient sample to formulate a reasonable estimate. But really this isn't what the subject is about – is it? Weather or not you agree with the numbers is irrelevant to me. It doesn't need to be drawn out because it takes only away from the real topic.


What is relevant is that there is a strong sense of disagreement by the respondants of this thread with the position that WBCCI is taking to change the name/logo and how that decision was arrived at. That is what we are talking about here.

[wahoonc]

I think I know why the percentages are different...different collection points. If you take a survey in say a shopping mall and then at a Nascar track you are going to get two different groups of people so the answers should be different. Here you are getting a statistically younger and computer savy population. The bulk of the ones that voted at the unit meetings are older and may or may not be on this board....So what does that do to statistics...Which BTW I passed in college for some strange reason...

Aaron

[66Overlander]

Originally Posted by rnzbernd

You may recall from past postings that I chair the WBCCI Name Selection Committee. The committee has completed its study, the report has been forwarded to the Board of Trustees and they will vote on the recommended choices on 13 January at the Winter Board Meeting in Anthony, TX.

Now ya all pay attention - - Please!! The Board vote is to recommend the new name and logo to the membership! The membership (!) votes on the name through whatever means a Unit has for voting (normally a unit membership meeting in the spring), and sends their delegate to the International Rally in Salem to cast its votes accordingly. Members-at-Large don't get a vote, so if you are an MAL and want to officially express yourself, you need to join a unit.

For those of you who want to maintain the name, I point out that at the last delegates meeting (meaning membership), the vote of the MEMBERSHIP was 5 to 1 to change.

The name we are proposing is the Airstream Owners Association, Incorporated. (Have to include Inc. for legal reasons) We'd use AOAI as initials. It best define who and what we are: An Association of people who own Airstreams.

Cost? Our current estimate is $21,300 at the International Level. It will vary at the Unit level. The biggest expense there will probably be how many Unit officer flags the unit elects to change ($57 ea). Incorporated Units will also have to change their Articles of Incorporation in their state - - no more than $50. We would Grandfather as much as possible, like Past Presidents flags and issue stick-on decals of the new logo for existing membership badges.

I fully expect this will be passed at the Board meeting. The Blue Beret will have articles explaining the rational for the name selection and logo and mailings will also go to Unit presidents for their use in informing unit members and help in making their individual decisions.

R.B. Bernd
WBCCI #1990
1st VP, Region 10

R.B.,
Thanks for bringing this Forum up to date and thanks for the effort in developing a new name proposal. I have to say that "AOAI" rolls of the tongue far worse than "WBCCI". Personally, given this choice I hope that this proposal gets defeated and that the names just reverts back to WBCCI. If not, I might just have to give up my membership in the club.

I'll admit that I do not feel as strongly opposed to a potential name change as many that have posted here on the Forums, as long as the selected new name has some ties back to the history of the club, like for example "Wally Byam Airstream Club" would. What I very strongly dislike, is the apparently "winning" choice of "Airstream Owners Association, Incorporated". I could use stronger words for my dislike, but you get the point. I cannot see how much of the general membership will like this choice either, unless they are just so confused on how to make the club appealing to non-members that they will grasp at the most extreme ideas (something I doubt). The words "Owners" and "Association" sound too eliteist to me. The word "Club" sounds much more friendly and welcoming. Now if you can come up with an idea that excludes "Owners" and "Association" and includes "Club" and maybe "Wally Byam", count me in. I'd probably be OK even with "The Aistream Club" if it had to come to that to get a compromise.

But if this proposal passes, you will not get the WBCCI sticker off my trailer, and I will not put an AOAI sticker on it. If that becomes a requirement for membership, count me out.

I will be in contact with my unit to make sure they know how I feel on this issue. I will do all I can to get my unit to vote against this new name. Wish me luck. And oh yeah, I represent the future of WBCCI, I'm 40-something and have a lot of Airstreaming years yet to go, with or without the club.

[Buttercup]

wahoonc, I'll buy that - the mindset of forum members may in fact be different from those who generally don't participate in an online forum like this. Thank you for pointing this out. It bring to mind some of the variables which can alter an even representation.

65GT,
All I can say is very well put with the perfect amount of bitterness. I have to hold myself back because frankly I do believe this move is being taken without forethought and proper planning such as simple market research. Admittedly (as published in the BB) this move is being made to “entice” new members into joining. I bet the WBCCI leadership never took into account what the existing memberships response would be to this. There is faux pas written all over this like graffiti on a subway wall.

66Overlander,
You point out what I believe upsets so many here about this move – it really seems to deny the history in wholesale fashion in favor of a new identity which somehow the new Airstream owners are going to flock to like moths to streetlight. I don't see that happening. I don't see where the demographic of the WBCCI has been taken to account. It is dynamic and changing before the eyes of the leadership. I think existing members are going to feel alienated and left in the cold shadow of WBCCI's zeal to attract a new membership base that they can't service.

[azflycaster]

Who is this Sam guy, let's dump him too. The name sounds like a hospital not an RV club. What about that picture, and what's up with the halo? Is this some vast right wing thing going on here? Let's face it with a name like that they are never going to keep a membership base, let alone get any new younger members. What are they thinking?

[wheel interested]

I have read several posts asking, "Where were you?" when all this was happening. I have to plead ignorance on that one. I suppose as a dutiful member I should have been home reading my BB and watching my calendar for the next meeting or luncheon. But I wasn't. I was out using my Airstream.

I'll start from here but there was much the same previous to this. In September we were gone a week or two in Maine. October/November was two weeks in Ohio and JC. January found us in Texas and Arizona for a month. There was a 4 week stint in Florida around the state rally in Sarasota in February and March. Somewhere in here was another 2 weeks to the UP. Ohio represented a portion of a week in May at Homecoming in JC. In June there was two weeks in Michigan. July we were in Illinois for 2 weeks. August we went to the Forums rally in Otisville, in September/October we had another month trip around the Great Lakes, in November I was back to Ohio and JC.

My point is we need to be able to have a way to have input without being in physical attendance.

I almost felt shamed that I missed my opportunity to address the matter but then I thought , hey, where was I? Then I remembered.

[InsideOut]

Originally Posted by wkerfoot

Of the 5,000 WBCCI members on this board only a few seem to care.

Originally Posted by chuck

Sure, there may be 10,000 people that have taken the time to register on the site, but how many are regular posters?

Regular posters? How about these stats as a side note:

To date, there are 10,152 Forum members of which only 4,268 have one or more posts! That means only 42% of the forums members have EVER posted ~ not to mention the 1,081 +/- that have only posted once.

Shari

[fatcat]

Originally Posted by 65GT

NO!

NO!

NO!

There's NO point to changing the club name.

There will be ZERO improvements as a result of changing the clubs name.

Changing the clubs name is far EASIER than CHANGING ANYTHING about the club, so why not change the name? That will be the easiest thing they ever do. A couple DOZEN people will decide to change the name and that will be the end of it.

If you put it to a vote of the MEMBERSHIP -- there will be NO change of the club name. But why would they want to do that?

BUMP (fell off soap box -- hey you asked!)

__

anything to help the club but a name change is not a help
i work for bill thomas camper sales and feel the club needs to be promoted in differant ways then this........keep the name keep the name keep the name
636-327-5900 matthew elbert.... fatcat

[fatcat]

Originally Posted by RivetED

Yes, I asked...I was at a dinner with 2 members of the IBT board this evening & the question was asked of me. I'm below the average age of most WBCCI members . I support the Airstream name & logo change & will be at the IBT meeting, most likely I'll give my opinion at the open meeting. BUT, Will it just be a rose of another name (yet smell the same) & still have no real impact on younger members wanting to join & stay????

keep the name , we as younger members must change how people view the club not the name of the club....keep wally , let people know the fun.... fatcat bill thomas camper sales 636-327-5900

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by wheel interested

My point is we need to be able to have a way to have input without being in physical attendance.

I almost felt shamed that I missed my opportunity to address the matter but then I thought , hey, where was I? Then I remembered.

This all represents the old thinking that negates the use of computers, Internet, and other electronic means of communications. First I wouldn't be surprised that the bylaws have probably not addressed issues as major as this. For all intents this name change is approved by the same process as minor changes that require an International vote of delegates.

Second, if your unit is like ours, we run on a budget that allows us an income of $12 annually per year per unit. From this income we pay the costs of producing a local newsletter, postage, a unit member booklet, flowers for those hospitalized and those who pass on, just to name some things that come to mind. Local rallys are expected to run on a break even basis even to the point of issuing checks for refunds if the costs go under expectations. The bulk of the dues go to Mother WBCCI. Communications are limited to a few newsletters and the business meetings held during each rally. If you don't come to the rally, you are in effect out of the loop.

So while many think this issue should have been communicated differently, in essence it was handled the same way that every other issue is handled. And it was done in the same pattern of thought that pervades much of the organization, "this is the way we do it". So those who want to chastise the International officers in their handling of the situation, the "do it by the book" mentality rules. If you single out the name change for special handling, then why not the issue regarding the new owners of the new Airstream Basecamp being eligible for membership? You know that every issue has a group that thinks their issue is important.

So maybe we need to get past this name issue and really address the issues that are important within the organization. This means the structure, bylaws, and communications to name a few. Maybe this name change is good in that if anything it awakens the membership to understand that they have left this organization to be run by a precious few, and that everyone needs to be involved.

Jack

[wheel interested]

Of course Base Camps should be allowed! And if that was the thread that was up I would have been putting my two cents in there too.

I was voicing my opinion as an armchair jockey in front of my computer. Once the weather gets better I imagine I will be gone again in my Airstream. I have no taste for meetings, by-laws, and procedure, and most especially if it circumvents easy fixes. Too much hierarchy, I can't play at that. Nope I have traveling to do. As to involvement you can count me in for a vote, and my dues and that's all I am signing up for. Except that I would also like to be a parker and arrive early. Are femailes allowed?

So maybe we need to get past this name issue and really address the issues that are important within the organization. This means the structure, bylaws, and communications to name a few. Maybe this name change is good in that if anything it awakens the membership to understand that they have left this organization to be run by a precious few, and that everyone needs to be involved.

Jack

I hope so Jack. I agree with you. I may have even expressed something similar to that though less eloquantly elsewhere.

[Silvertwinkie]

Well said Jack.

WBCCI is dead....long live WBCCI (and/or it's new name)!

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by wheel interested

Except that I would also like to be a parker and arrive early. Are femailes allowed?

I hope so Jack. I agree with you. I may have even expressed something similar to that though less eloquantly elsewhere.

Eweeu! a well placed jab. In my 3 year history of the organization, I've never seen such a species.......hmmmm....a female parker.....

My wife has always asked me why the newsletters always note that the events for the women are always singled out and seem to include blanket weaving, patchwork quilts, and other very gender oriented items.

Maybe we should do something for the gals, sort of like they do for the Ram's here in STL, where they have football clinics for women only. I can almost see the topic in my mind..."Black tanks and toilets". The first question coming will be how to remove the carpet stains around the toilet that seem to permeate the older carpeted vintage units....

Jack

[wheel interested]

Originally Posted by jcanavera

Eweeu! a well placed jab. In my 3 year history of the organization, I've never seen such a species.......hmmmm....a female parker.....

My wife has always asked me why the newsletters always note that the events for the women are always singled out and seem to include blanket weaving, patchwork quilts, and other very gender oriented items.

Maybe we should do something for the gals, sort of like they do for the Ram's here in STL, where they have football clinics for women only. I can almost see the topic in my mind..."Black tanks and toilets". The first question coming will be how to remove the carpet stains around the toilet that seem to permeate the older carpeted vintage units....

Jack

Anyone see the original Stepford Wives? Could there be a correlation? You don't have anyone named Dis at the top do you? Remember the photographer. aka Kathern Ross, well that's more like it!