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Old 12-11-2005, 11:07 PM   #29
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There's Nor-Cal and Norcal...

I always enjoy WBCCI threads for the passion and excitement they generate.. After similar experiences with aircraft type clubs, a sailing club, and now WBCCI, I'd like to share a couple observations as well...

1. Airstream Inc is trying to influence the National, and so are a couple staffers, but the leadership, as pictured on the cover of Blue Beret, are pretty firmly camped in the 1960's.. Rather than vent, I proposed "outsourcing" magazine to professional publishers, who can include articles, schedules and ads and turn out good work for no expense.. REJECTED..
2. The WBCCI Website should be primary schedule/signup vehicle for rallies and events.. It's not really up to it these days and acts mostly as static e-billboard...
3. As for Chapters or Units, there are good ones and poor ones.. Based on reports here, Western WA and New England and Northern VA are good.. Silicon Valley ironically not so good.. (All officers live 50 miles or more from county supposed to be HQ, all over 70, none internet savvy, only a handful can mange e-mail.. Few rallies held are for fairgrounds from Thurs to Sun morning, breakfast at 7, lights out at 9PM... SIGH...)
4. Many of the chapters now are aging and struggling.. Look at number of National "Event" rallies run by units and being dropped for overwhelming their aging memberships: Indy 500, Albuquerque Balloon Festival, Oshkosh AirVenture, Kentucky Derby and after this year the Rose Parade Rally..
5. If Norcal Unit of WBCCI can offer fun events, and locations manageable, then try one.. Nor-Cal Forum group is going to continue doing 3 to 4 Rallies a year separate from WBCCI, and maybe more, and we've been told we can't be a Unit under WBCCI rules unless everyone joins them...

In sum, if you are near less good chapter or unit, save your dues money and find forum events, or else gang up with some like-minded friends and take over the local unit politically.. If you have a good one, enjoy! As for us, we're going to skip the big numbers, flags and ceremonies, but stay affiliated hoping to participate in some of the national events and perhaps join some other events held near us by units other than our own... We are going to try Salem (first time for everything..) only because it's just a long day's drive away..

John McG
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Old 12-12-2005, 12:18 AM   #30
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Opinions asked(?) for, here they are....

Hi all -

As I said previously, very interesting thread. Probably the best general interest thread I've read of late.

Opinions asked for, so here I go...

I personally like the Wally Byam name in the club name. He did 'found' the movement with aluminum and that is worth quite a bit, in my book. Yes, others don't have a clue as to who he is or why WE care ( if we do) - but that right there is a great oportunity to educate someone on the joys of camping (generic), on Airstreams (easy!), and on the general atmosphere of belonging to a club of like minded folks - assuming they think like you do.

Think about it, 99% of the SOB campers are sitting around in their folding chairs reading or grilling or whatever, they are NOT talking with a guy 2 sites over that has the same or similar unit, or even brand. There just isn't that LOVE of ASin, aluminum, whatever it is for you, that makes you nuts about AS's and their owners, talking about them, ogling, etc.... Hence your presence here.

Now, saying that I like the WB name, doesn't mean I am married to it. Something with Airstream in the name would work OK too, IMO. It is more about what other have mentioned, making the whole shootin' match more relavent to the members time available, interests, family connections and so forth than a name, badges, beret, whatever.

If the name change is going to cost 40k or whatever and it is going to actually MAKE the club move into the present day ( web access, relevency, and of interest to advertisers) than go for it, with my blessings. If however, it is just a smoke screen and more of the same, than what, EXACTLY! is the point?

Then again, folks, we are talking about $55 a year here. Where does $55 figure into what you are spending for winterizing, campfees and memberships, accessories and etc per year on your unit currently!? Peanuts!!! Now, are you getting your dollars worth out of the Blue Beret - what else is there other than the red numbers and the directory? I think that we can all safely agree that there isn't much there on a national level. But Why?

Is it the club itself? Is it the BB? Is it the lame coupons? The Obits? The "4 o'clocks" info? Stuck in the 50's? Sexist? The ads?

What??? EXACTLY is it that you don't like!?!????

This is the same lament that folks that run other orgs have, like cooperhawk (sorry, not trying to single you out) - if you don't like the way something you care about is run, organized or done - get OFF your a** and DO SOMETHING about it. Bitching won't help. I did that with my sons Cub Scout troop, his kids minor league baseball, daughters Girl Scouts, etc.... All are arguably better now for involvement - mine and other peoples.

There is no substitute for getting involved. There are a MILLION opportunities to do so, both locally and nationally - newsletter, rallies, events, seminars - you name it! Don't like it?? DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT that doesn't involve sitting about and complaining.

When it is all said and done - we/ I am in this for the people.

The guy/gal that you talk to that has the same unit your parents did.... The guy that just fixed his dump valve which is lieke yours.... The folks that have kids in the same age range as your own... The guy that backed a unit into an 'impossible' camp spot... The couple that has a "Shiny" unit you wish you had.... I could go on, but I think you get the idea.

Yes, I think that a 'new' BB with web interfaces, and updated links every day/week would be great! Yes, I think that new 'events' or 'seminars' would be worth a lot to me personally! I do think that lots of events that I could get to within 1 days drive would be awesome!

But, for me, it all comes down to meeting, getting to know, liking, and admiring those that have AS pasts, have numerous trailers, info, and "fun and fellowship" that make it worth my $55 a year. Yes, they are older and have different ideas about a lot of things, but that right there is an interesting jumping off point for me.... Your personal experience may vary!

Sorry for running on, but this thread have made me realize (again!) that people are what life is all about. Without those connections to people, just like family, well you are just another somebody out in the world. With Airstream, I have a connection to my fellow Airstreamer - just like with family.

That is something to be valued, cultivated and enjoyed. It's there! use it. WBCCI is a way to do that. It may be 'broken', but it is fixable with a namechange or whatever. Bottom line, get involved! Without that all is lost, name change or not.

My 2 cents, again.

Axel
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Old 12-12-2005, 01:52 AM   #31
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One question I have is, will the VAC (Vintage Airstream Club) will be okay if and/or, when, the 'new' 'WBACCI or the 'WBAOCC' or the 'WBAC', or the 'AOCC' or the 'ARVA' or the 'ACC' or the 'AOA' or the 'AOC' or the 'AC', bombs?

We joined the WBCCI for the nostalgia, camaraderie and knowledge, as well as, to be a part of the VAC. They really seem to have their act together. Information is clearly presented, the graphic materials are beautiful and modernly historic and the pride and smiles portrayed in most of the rally and event photos are inspiring. Dawning a blue beret at a vintage event appears to be highly appropriate and genuinly cheery!
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Old 12-12-2005, 02:36 AM   #32
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VAC as part of WBCCI!!!?????

Reading the last post I got the impression that VAC is part of - or a subset of the WBCCI. As far a I know, it isn't!!????????? Correct me if I'm wrong but maybe I am wrong here. OR maybe you have to a WBCCI member to be able to be a VAC member, or maybe something else entirely....... I am verklempt.....talk amoungst yourselves............

If that is the case, will that brings a truly wideopen and widereaching change that seems to be the objective? Seperate is better?!?!!! Membership is better?!?!!!! Subjective vs objective?

Axel
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Old 12-12-2005, 02:39 AM   #33
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Or wherer you saying something else entirely....?

Where you perhaps suggesting that the VAC might be in a position to take over/ assist or provide consultative help to the BB, that is 'in a bit of a rut' these days and could do with a massive dollup of the current century and its inhabitates to bring things to current. IMO.

Curious either way!

Axel
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Old 12-12-2005, 05:54 AM   #34
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Fyi

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverToy
Reading the last post I got the impression that VAC is part of - or a subset of the WBCCI. As far a I know, it isn't!!????????? Correct me if I'm wrong but maybe I am wrong here. OR maybe you have to a WBCCI member to be able to be a VAC member, or maybe something else entirely....... I am verklempt.....talk amoungst yourselves............

If that is the case, will that brings a truly wideopen and widereaching change that seems to be the objective? Seperate is better?!?!!! Membership is better?!?!!!! Subjective vs objective?

Axel
In order to become a member of VAC ( Vintage Airstream Club), one must first become a member of WBCCI. The VAC is an intra club to the WBCCI. You can find all this information on the WBCCI website. (or can you?) I joined so I can join VAC.

Well, I just went to the dabyabeeceeceeeye website, and actually there is no apparent info on the intra clubs, other than a little blurb on one of the membership pages. Or I simply missed it.
VAC does have some information on their club, and they do back reference to WBCCI http://www.airstream.net/
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Old 12-12-2005, 10:02 AM   #35
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From as dissapointed but not discouraged Member

I look at the name change (although I do not know what it is yet) as a strategic marketing angle - NOT FOR TODAY but FOR THE FUTURE. Anything with the Name Airstream would be easier to publicize to both existing and potentially new members. The history of the club will always be with the Club - but if there is no club in the future then WB won't mean a thing anyway.

Look at it from a point of view that the new name WILL dipict the new and innovative changes to come.

There are lots of samples of "if it ain't broke don't fix it" ....but this organization IS broken - like a record stuck in a time warp. And the only way to fix it is to start with those new members - who are not stuck in the fold or trapped in the "old" way of doing things. And hope that out of every 10 new members at least 1 or 2 with enthusiasm and committment for the future will stay.

I am a turncoat! I joined two years ago full of "piss and vinegar" Some will remember "my defending or die speach about WBCCI. But the more I saw - or should say did not see the more I realized how seriously this club/organization is in trouble. I saw it more through the eyes of our own Unit. As well the organization structure, the by-laws are a mess and the flow of information is even worse. i.e. Intra Clubs - did any of you know that there is 8 (count them!) 8 Clubs within this club. When I started to ask questions why we don't have anything on any of these clubs at the local level - have the people looked at me as if I was making things up!

I.e Vintage - since it is close to home and the whole reason Peter and I got into this whole crazy concept. The Local level says talk to your Vac Region Rep. - But if you look at the VAC By-laws there is NOTHING that even states that there is such an entity within the organization, never mind any defining duties or repsonsibilites or even the philosophy of the position.

So really folks how on earth can anything be promoted, encouraged, new activities to meet the new members "Needs" Unless we start writing our own. Bylaws and procedures are written to document a process to assist then "changing of the guard". When something works well a procedure is written - if someone breaks procedure a rule is written, when we want continuity in order then By-Laws are written......but in the face of a young family - or those of us with or without children/pets - who just like the out doors and to meet people but are not quite into our 50', 60'. 70-'s it is all way to "official" We just want to have fun - sitting around fixing our vintage rigs or marvelling at the new ones (or for some here - picking at the quality process of how they are built).

I learned from a very wise Lady - that trying to change the world over night is not going to happen. But the only way you can make changes is to do it from within. If you stay a member you have access to your Units information and to fellow members who might just have the same idea - if you take the time to ask them.By staying a member you retain the right to provide constructive suggestions. If not a member then you just become an outside person who owns an Airstream that likes to complain about something they are not members of.

There is nothing to stop anyone from calling up some members and having a fun gathering - whether it be at your own property, local campground or a municipal fairground. You can call it whatever you want - and have fun. Take this forum they do it all the time......if enough of this type of fun family/friends gatherings take place - sooner or later the Forum Rallies will rub off on your local Unit. There are many Units out there now that are experiencing this very Osmosis having fun theme Rallies with both young and older members and with both new and vintage rigs.

Trust me it was really hard to convince Peter to join this year - so we basically joined one to retain our NEW # 1961 - to match the Hybrid we will be working on this summer - and;

2. try our hand at drumming up some extra-curricular activities in our Unit.

Starting with - the Intr-Clubs - just the basics like maybe a small flyer entitled "Did You Know"...
Amateur Radio
CB Radio
Classic Airstream
Free Wheelers
Full Timers
Genealogy
Computer
Vintage Airstream

I am sure if none of those clubs appeal to all then make a few new ones - like Kayak, Canoe, Craft, Moped, Stamps or whatever. just get out there and do something with fellow Airstreamers
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Old 12-12-2005, 10:15 AM   #36
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computer club question

Speaking of which, I joined the computer club last year from a very friendly gent who I could not say no to with the lure of a contest. I have just received an e-mail that it is time to re-up. I replied that I still have no idea of what the computer club is or does and have not received any further communication in that regard. Does anyone here belong? Hey I like computers. But then I like cappicinos too. Anyone want to join my cappicino club? All you have to do is join, become active and then model it to your own design. BTW, the dues will be $70.00.


Starting with - the Intr-Clubs - just the basics like maybe a small flyer entitled "Did You Know"...
Amateur Radio
CB Radio
Classic Airstream
Free Wheelers
Full Timers
Genealogy
Computer
Vintage Airstream
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Old 12-12-2005, 10:45 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested
Speaking of which, ........ BTW, the dues will be $70.00.


Starting with - the Intr-Clubs - just the basics like maybe a small flyer entitled "Did You Know"...
Amateur Radio
CB Radio
Classic Airstream
Free Wheelers
Full Timers
Genealogy
Computer
Vintage Airstream
Tell me they do not charge that amount????

I do not know what any of the fees are - except the VAC is and addition $20.00 - a hard pill to swallow as well really for at best a periodic Newsletter.

Yes there are Vintage Rallies (Regional and National?) I hear but have not seen any specific information on how to host them or if they are even different than "WBCCI" Rallies. I also assume by just being a member of the WBCCI?? you can attend any WBCCI Rally and since Vac is an Intra-Club of WBCCI and it's functions must be approved/ ratified and or sanctioned by WBCCI that I could attend.

Make your own Intra-Club...
Well if there is nothing offered within an existing club in your area - then yes why not model your own and do your own thing - and then you can charge what you want to pay for the Cappicinos and the new Cappicino Expresso/cino Machine
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Old 12-12-2005, 10:59 AM   #38
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Oh no they don't!

[quote=GT6921]Tell me they do not charge that amount????

Oh no! That was the cappicino club you see, very posh.

Yes there are Vintage Rallies (Regional and National?) I hear but have not seen any specific information on how to host them or if they are even different than "WBCCI" Rallies. I also assume by just being a member of the WBCCI?? you can attend any WBCCI Rally and since Vac is an Intra-Club of WBCCI and it's functions must be approved/ ratified and or sanctioned by WBCCI that I could attend.

Yes the vintage club is definitely THE cutting edge! And I can be an associate member and join in the fun. Even if you are not an associate member as space allows visitors may be welcome. I just can't plunk my sorry new as in the vintage section.
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Old 12-12-2005, 11:02 AM   #39
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Wink Wally Byam

Personally I don't see the need for a name change and I do enjoy the fact that the founders name is in the clubs name.

We would NOT have Airstreams if it weren't for him. I don't think this is something we should forget this fast and easily!

Also, what appealed most to us of Airstreams is the Wally spirit of travelling with them! The fact that he created these international caravans and took these beautiful american handcrafts all over the world beating all odds!! Nobody has ever done what he did. This is reason enough for me to honour him in our clubs name and a constant reminder of what Airstreaming is really about.

It ain't an Airstream without Wally's free spirit within. Then it's just another brand of trailers in this case of the Thor company.

Most sob groups call themselves with their brand name WB is what makes us different. We're not just brand afeccionados we follow a dream of silver travelling and wandering.

All of the above is not to say that I love or enjoy the WBCCI, I really don't! but I don't believe the name is the problem. It's all the politics and changes that happened after Wally was gone that ruined the club. Maybe if we restore it to it's initial splendor of friendship and kinship of travel the WBCCI name won't sound that off anymore.

Just a suggestion
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Old 12-12-2005, 11:40 AM   #40
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[QUOTE=wheel interested]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GT6921
.......Yes the vintage club is definitely THE cutting edge! And I can be an associate member and join in the fun. Even if you are not an associate member as space allows visitors may be welcome. I just can't plunk my sorry new as in the vintage section.

Well think about this technicality. A few weeks ago I possed the question on the big Red numbers and having two different ones for two different trailers.

It came across pretty clear that "Membership" is the person and not the trailer!

(Now not to offend any of those younger than "25" cause I surely do not want to do that) but wheel interested - you could classify yourself as "vintage" being over 25 years of age.

Seems like a double standard to me - we can park our vintage in the middle of the new ones in a "regular" rally.

Why could new ones not come to a vintage and park together??? Why cut off possible members who are interested in Vintage and admire them but just have not found one yet.

KIMILI - I don't think people are really thinking along the mind set of dropping the name to drop all what Wally has created - I think if we can boost this organization to do a better job period then we could honor Wally much better - through say a Hall of Fame - like many other organizations do.

I do not know of too many organizations that take on the name of the founder. (Yes more is societies - but not Organizations) I.E Sports all have their specific sport name (Hockey, lacrosse, Ringette Basket Ball etc Bob Sled - or is there a guy named Mr Bob Sled???) The founder of all these organizations is someone else and honoured by it's membership via special events, trophies, scholarships, Hall of Fames etc.

The only real promo I have heard in two years is the Concourse and Beauty Miss Queenie something or another - I am sure there are many other Volunteer awards but this Organization sure does not pump them up - and give them any sort of honor or prestige. Not too much incentive for an Officer to spend about 4-5 good years to go up the totem pole - and right now take a lot of c...p from it's members (and non- members through this forum) Just makes me want to run and sign up for a Trustee's position
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Old 12-12-2005, 12:15 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT6921
When something works well a procedure is written - if someone breaks procedure a rule is written, when we want continuity in order then By-Laws are written......but in the face of a young family - or those of us with or without children/pets - who just like the out doors and to meet people but are not quite into our 50', 60'. 70-'s it is all way to "official" We just want to have fun
That hits the nail on the head. I see too many old guard who are obsessed with rules and regulations. One member compares them to the CC&Rs that keep neighborhoods nice. I don't like CC&R neighborhoods, and I don't think they're nice. [on edit: I will say they are 'nice', but they are not interesting. I would rather be in a neighborhood with toys on the lawn, a hoop in the street, and RVs and boats in the driveways.] I can't understand why people submit themselves to all these confining rules just to put on an air of 'nice'.

WBCCI is like that. There are all these rules, and people don't necessarily like them, but apparently we can't get twenty people together without having rules to keep them in control. Inevitably someone breaks a rule, and someone else is whispering about it the next day. "Did you see so-and-so brought her dog to the campfire?" "Did you see her bring out that bottle of booze? Right in front of everyone?" "How come they don't have their flags up?" or "Their flags aren't displayed properly" or "Does the club know about that Margarita Machine? I'm sure that's not allowed!". It just goes on and on. We just roll our eyes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GT6921
There is nothing to stop anyone from calling up some members and having a fun gathering - whether it be at your own property, local campground or a municipal fairground. You can call it whatever you want - and have fun.
Well, no I think they have rules about that too. You have to do certain things to announce a get-together, and if you don't do it right then it's not a 'club event', and if it's not a club event then it's not covered by insurance. And no one wants to go to an event that's not covered by insurance! No, if you want to get members together, you have to plan it a year ahead of time, put it in the annual event calendar, publish it in the BB, and god only knows what other hoops must be jumped through. I got roped into hosting a Lunch, but I cannot plan far enough ahead to host a rally! I'll have to stick to Forum Rallys

But what can we do? As I have been told "those rules are there for a reason. Everything that can go wrong at a rally has in the last 50 years, and there is a rule to make sure it doesn't happen again, so everyone can have a good time." It's a hard position to argue with.

How would you make any changes anyway? They have such a cumbersome government in place that it's like getting a bill passed in congress to get them to make changes. Like welcoming the new Basecamp - are they really going to turn their nose up at those people? Is there any way to get them to change the rules to include them? Probably not, since old-timers are still talking about how they just included the Argosys (what, ten or fifteen years ago), and just last year included trailers that weren't self contained, thus welcoming the vintage units officially in to the club. I don't think the rules would even allow a local unit to allow Basecamps if they wanted to, because the National unit decides who can belong, and local units can't overrule the national unit rules. It just gives me a headache to think about it!

I have also gotten involved to try and help make a difference, and I think they are really trying, but the last thing I want to do on the few precious weekends that I sneak away to go camping is listen to people quote rules and regulations.
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Old 12-12-2005, 12:21 PM   #42
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Heeeeey

I resemble that remark!

[quote=GT6921]

(Now not to offend any of those younger than "25" cause I surely do not want to do that) but wheel interested - you could classify yourself as "vintage" being over 25 years of age.

They just won't see their way clear to allow me to make a regular spectacle of myself...

(as when the vintage units are gathered for display at an International convention.) But I certainly am a "vintage unit", twice over, actually.
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