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Old 12-22-2005, 04:16 PM   #197
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Statistic Retraction

I apologize if the 17% voted statistic I understood from my reading of posts was interpreted incorrectly by me. I do not know any of the statistics as fact.

But I still contend that I believe that there is a very high number of members who did not vote. I don't think I was the only one who did not know: 1. that I even get to vote; or 2. that it was called or held. I heard of surveys but I did not know the club votes on results of surveys. I thought that was a general sampling of climate. And I have not seen a survey. Now this was all prefaced initially with a solicitation for opinions and discussion. I submit my posts were presented in that manner and not as having any absolute knowlege and consisted of much conjecture and supposition.

Again, I apologize for misleading anyone due to a mistaken statistic.

The post I must have misintrepreted is this one.

http://www.airforums.com/forum...0-post130.html





Quote:
Originally Posted by Pahaska
That subsequently, every member in every unit in the country had the opportunity to vote. The delegates then voted for their units at the 2005 International. The delegates were given the choice to vote proportionally or vote their unit membership as a block.

I don't know how each unit gathered their vote, but obviously, the majority of active members voted for a change. In our case, we voted at our business meeting at a major rally after hearing an explanation of the proposal from the Region President (now the Internatinal 3rd VP). Approximately half of our members were at the meeting and virtually all the active members were there. There was one dissenting vote.

Far more than 17% of the membership voted and most supported the change.
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Old 12-22-2005, 04:22 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
Really?!? And the unit certified amendment proposal is where??? Regional certification is where?? HQ certification is wherre?? This is bunk and not proper parlimentary procedure.
As I said, not one bit of parliamentary procedure has been used at this point to do this.
What makes you so convinced that these things don't exist and parlimentary proceedure was not followed? As a recent past unit president who was involved in this proceedure, everything I observed was followed per the constitution & bylaws as stated.

Shari
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Old 12-22-2005, 06:43 PM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideOut
What makes you so convinced that these things don't exist and parlimentary proceedure was not followed? As a recent past unit president who was involved in this proceedure, everything I observed was followed per the constitution & bylaws as stated.

Shari
I am really trying to understand this...

Show me where in the constitution it says that the delegates can direct the IBT to do anything, let alone change the name of the WBCCI.
Show me where an amendment was proposed to change the name and where any certification at any level was made.
Show me how a delegates meeting provides the best way of ratification of anything (those furthest away will be less likely to attend).
Show me how many actual delegates voted for or against the name change and how many abstained (because they didn't know about this issue).
Was there a quorum of delegates at the last delegates meeting?

I do stand corrected that the delegates can in fact ratify an amendment. I was looking at section 1 and not focusing on section 2. What I contest is that this does not provide a fair representation of every member as voting at the unit level does. I am going to make a bet here the method of voting will be by delegates for the ratification of this name change. The reason is that it stands a better chance of passing if not all units both don't know about and if not all units can provide a delegate or alternate (those furthest away).

One fact that does stand is that it has been expressed numerous times already that not all units reported knowing about the name change issue in the first place. I have a real problem with this and hope that the IBT will choose to allow this to be ratified as per section 1 rather than the less representative section 2.
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Old 12-22-2005, 08:15 PM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
Hey Fred!! Try this one on... The 1st Past President of the Metro Chapter of Unit 2 just wrote me back and said that the Metro Chapter didn't vote on anything with regard to a name change.
Hey 65GT (or whoever you are if you have a name your are not ashamed of): Then I say you are blessed that guy is no longer serving as President of your Unit! I can't explain and certainly won't apologize for his shortcomings; I never voted for him. Perhaps you should contact Elliot Spitzer, as this sounds like a major wrongdoing case right up his prosecutorial alley. My well run Denver Unit discussed then informedly voted on the name change. That must be why Patti abandoned Long Island to moved to Colorado. Sounds to me like its well past due the time for a name change on the 'Guyland, if for no other reason than to protect the innocent!
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Old 12-22-2005, 09:06 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 47WeeWind
Hey 65GT (or whoever you are if you have a name your are not ashamed of): Then I say you are blessed that guy is no longer serving as President of your Unit! I can't explain and certainly won't apologize for his shortcomings; I never voted for him. Perhaps you should contact Elliot Spitzer, as this sounds like a major wrongdoing case right up his prosecutorial alley. My well run Denver Unit discussed then informedly voted on the name change. That must be why Patti abandoned Long Island to moved to Colorado. Sounds to me like its well past due the time for a name change on the 'Guyland, if for no other reason than to protect the innocent!
Fred,
There is another possibility that has not been considered here. WBCCI has a somewhat archaic way of doing things. I expect that it is possible that addresses, etc do not make it to the top levels and therefore the top levels do not have an adequate ability to let that information reach the unit levels.

Unless I am mistaken, our unit also did not know of the mane change. But I could be mistaken.
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Old 12-22-2005, 09:07 PM   #202
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Very interesting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
Hey Fred!! Try this one on...

The 1st Past President of the Metro Chapter of Unit 2 just wrote me back and said that the Metro Chapter didn't vote on anything with regard to a name change.

That's 45 members, roughly .5% of the entire club membership did NOT have any notice, nor opportunity to vote. How many more times do you think that's been repeated around the block? Maybe 17% worth?

__
I have it im my notes from the June 30, 2005 Delegates Meeting, which I attended, that Unit #2 is the New York Finger Lakes Unit. You must mean Unit # 72 which is the Metropolitan NY Unit. Either way, they both participated according to my tally of the vote. The Action Item reads:
Quote:
Action Item #1

Proposed by: International President James Haddaway.

I move that a vote of the delegates be taken to determine if the name "Airstream" shall be included in the Club's name.

Rationale: A 2004 opinion survey of WBCCI members indicated that a majoity responding to the survey would like to see the name "Airstream" included in the Club's name. The name Wally Byam Caravan Club International has a 50 year history that is widely recognized in the RV industry; and the magnitude and importance of making any changes in that name should be voted in by all the members. The cost to the Club of a name change is addressed in the International Treasurer's report attached. This motion has the support of the International Board of Trustees and the Reorganization Task Force.
Following the reading of the Action Item, there was discussion that lasted approximately 30-45 minutes (I recall - it could have been longer or shorter). There was then a Unit-by-Unit voice vote with all the delegates stating their Unit's concensus vote.

Unit #2 voted 3 - yes and 46 - no
Unit #72 voted 28 - yes and 0 - no

The total votes cast were - 5634 - Yes (79%) and 1498 - No (21%)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
You know what, this club is no better than its worst running chapter and ultimately that goes right to the top. Want to try and pass the buck on down -- not on my watch. Apparently the system is SO bad no one at the top even knew the entire Metro chapter didn't vote. Talk about a disconnect! Looks like all those votes got sucked up by somebody though and they turned them into a 100% return though, doesn't it. I wonder who's pockets those votes wound up in? I wonder if they turned them into YES change the name votes, or NO change to the name votes.
Talk about a disconnect...I'm curious as to why your Unit's Past President, who either voted or delegated someone else to do so in his absence, doesn't have any recollection of this???

Shari
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Old 12-22-2005, 09:19 PM   #203
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Correct, Metro NY Unit #72 is in Region # 2

It should be pretty easy to find out who YOUR delegate was...I could if I was so inclined, but I'm not.

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Old 12-22-2005, 09:39 PM   #204
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Shari,

You quote the following..."The name Wally Byam Caravan Club International has a 50 year history that is widely recognized in the RV industry" but Roy Bernd, states Approach a new Airstream owner and ask if they would like to join the Wally Byam Caravan Club. Tell a resort, restaurant or tourist facility that you want to make a reservation for the Wally Byam Caravan Club. Then spend the next 5 minutes explaining who Mr. Byam was and that you are really the Airstream Owners Association so they understand who/what you are talking about. Isn't that "Name Recognition"? We have none". So what gives?

Also - the vote was taken to ADD Airstream to the name - the existing name. So how does it get to a new name altogether?

BTW - I am not trying ti single anybody out and don't really direct that question at you. It is posted to the forums in general...
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Old 12-22-2005, 09:40 PM   #205
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Where did Wally leave that wand...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
Fred, There is another possibility that has not been considered here. WBCCI has a somewhat archaic way of doing things. I expect that it is possible that addresses, etc do not make it to the top levels and therefore the top levels do not have an adequate ability to let that information reach the unit levels. Unless I am mistaken, our unit also did not know of the name change. But I could be mistaken.
Hi Buttercup: I have no better knowledge of what your Unit did regarding the name change vote than you do. I'm not the BabySitter of Unit Procedure. I'm just the VAC Historian who gathers musty old trailer facts and, from time to time, delivers via this Forum religious proclamations on how vintage trailers must be restored.

I receive my Blue Beret magazine monthly, read it, and keep myself informed. If I have something to say, I write letters and send emails to the appropriate WBCCI officials instead of complaining on this Forum. I tend to keep my politics to myself and just try to help people with old trailer facts when I'm not chiseling stone tablets in a religious aluminum fevor. I really, really wish Wally had left me a magic wand I could wave and solve everyone's problems with the WBCCI. But he didn't.
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Old 12-22-2005, 09:52 PM   #206
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BC - I just quoted the Action Item as written. I can give you my opinion of the difference in the two quotes, the Action Item quote says it's "widely recognized in the RV industry" and Roy is talking about the general public when he says "a resort, restaurant or tourist facility". I happen to concur with both, if I had to chose one I agree with more, it would be Roy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
Unless I am mistaken, our unit also did not know of the name change. But I could be mistaken.
I have my notes from the delegate's meeting if you are unsure how your unit voted, I can tell you.

Shari
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Old 12-22-2005, 09:54 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 47WeeWind
Hi Buttercup: I have no better knowledge of what your Unit did regarding the name change vote than you do. I'm not the BabySitter of Unit Procedure. I'm just the VAC Historian who gathers musty old trailer facts and, from time to time, delivers via this Forum religious proclamations on how vintage trailers must be restored.

I receive my Blue Beret magazine monthly, read it, and keep myself informed. If I have something to say, I write letters and send emails to the appropriate WBCCI officials instead of complaining on this Forum. I tend to keep my politics to myself and just try to help people with old trailer facts when I'm not chiseling stone tablets in a religious aluminum fevor. I really, really wish Wally had left me a magic wand I could wave and solve everyone's problems with the WBCCI. But he didn't.
Fred,

Were not asking anything from you. I only offer an explanation for why so many people state they never heard of a vote. You seem to needlessly be taking this personally and also seem to be swing a sword at those of us who are questioning the proceedings that have taken place without respecting the desires we have of protecting the WBCCI's 50 year history.

Nobody is attacking you or the VAC. And really the things we are finding out about the procedures to change the name seem to stink a little. The question I would ask is why are you taking this so personally? What involvement do you have in this name change are you protecting?

These forums are set up so that any aspect of airstream ownership can be discussed. So why call those of us who question what's going on as complainers and try to quash our efforts to protect the truth and history of WBCCI?
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Old 12-22-2005, 10:06 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
I'm sorry Shari -- not used to the conventions used here. I think I'd be right saying Region #2? Metro chapter (no idea about 72). Nope, a vote was never taken locally. So I guess whoever the delegate was decided to vote for everybody WITHOUT any input? Pretty cool huh?

__

This is exactly what I am trying to get to the bottom of. I have communicated with Roy as well sending him my opions and thoughts on the whole process. And specifically requested how the Motion got to the delegates meeting in the first place and I CAN NOT seem to get an answer.

My President knows nothing - unfortunately I was not at the spring Rally - so I am not aware if our Unit even received anything from the IBT or WBCCI HQ - as Roy indcates "should" have received and that it was communicated in the BB.

It is also quoted that we have a voice through our Delegate. But that is unfair in my opinion - if 130 members of our unit do not show up - their voice is lumped in with the vote regardless - thus if the members at the unit voted 50 against and 40 for - then the 130 are ratioed into the delegate vote - WOW this is major bogus!

The 130 members should have a proxy vote to the unit - if they choose not to cast a vote then there is NO vote for them.

Just an observation - that I am trying to get to the bottom of from my own Unit - WHY

Because folks we have one more KICK at this can - and if this vote is going to go the same way - then I want it done with Full membership awareness - and not Roy telling me the Delegate voted for us at the Delegates Meeting.
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Old 12-22-2005, 10:10 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT6921
This is exactly what I am trying to get to the bottom of. I have communicated with Roy as well sending him my opions and thoughts on the whole process. And specifically requested how the Motion got to the delegates meeting in the first place and I CAN NOT seem to get an answer.

My President knows nothing - unfortunately I was not at the spring Rally - so I am not aware if our Unit even received anything from the IBT or WBCCI HQ - as Roy indcates "should" have received and that it was communicated in the BB.

It is also quoted that we have a voice through our Delegate. But that is unfair in my opinion - if 130 members of our unit do not show up - their voice is lumped in with the vote regardless - thus if the members at the unit voted 50 against and 40 for - then the 130 are ratioed into the delegate vote - WOW this is major bogus!

The 130 members should have a proxy vote to the unit - if they choose not to cast a vote then there is NO vote for them.

Just an observation - that I am trying to get to the bottom of from my own Unit - WHY

Because folks we have one more KICK at this can - and if this vote is going to go the same way - then I want it done with Full membership awareness - and not Roy telling me the Delegate voted for us at the Delegates Meeting.
Funny, Roy stated that he received no negative comment, except ours. Hmmmm...
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Old 12-22-2005, 10:36 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
My current membership roster shows a 45 member tally after renewal deadlines.
Oftentimes, a Unit roster will include associate members (who's vote only counts once), members at large and/or 'friends' who are no longer current members. The delegate count is based on the number of paid memberships whose primary membership is with the unit. It's set by the International office, based on the annual fees your Treasurer collects & provides to International. The delegate count is set by the number of members paid by the end of December for the upcoming year. So the delegate count for 2005 was based on the paid memberships through December 2004.

Shari
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