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Old 12-19-2005, 02:05 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
....there have been multiple complaints in this thread to the tune of "nobody asked ME!!!!; I never got a ballot", etc, etc.

Its all done at the spring business meeting. that is why its important to go to it. ....
This is indicative of structure issues that need to be addressed. I live in a large region covering several states. My unit holds it's meetings many hours from my location. And... if it's on a weekday at lunch... well you get the picture.

Every member should have been surveyed in a meaningful way by thier units and regions. Kudos to those that did send out surveys - but many did not. The note in the Blue Beret to send in comments was kind of, well.... odd... since the comments went to the committee looking at the issue - not to the folks who ACTUALLY VOTE. The process rots and is further disenfranchising the very folks that the club professes to court.
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Old 12-19-2005, 02:15 PM   #156
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Now "YOU" pay attention!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I direct this to RB Bernd. Who do you think you're inpressing with these smart mouthed comments???????? Who made you master of this forum????????? I resent your attitude of presumed authority!!!!!! AND I"M NOT A YA ALL!!!!!!! Its strange how some people get brave with their comments when they are not face to face with those they are speaking to.
After waiting 3 years to join WBCC I joined Dec 3rd. If I had heard this crap before then I wouldn't have waisted my money. I do not intend to be talked DOWN TO by you or anyone else with one of those silly little hats!!!!!!!
Mike Lewis ---still waiting for my big red letters!!!!!
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Old 12-19-2005, 02:21 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by rnzbernd
Cost? Our current estimate is $21,300 at the International Level. It will vary at the Unit level. The biggest expense there will probably be how many Unit officer flags the unit elects to change ($57 ea). Incorporated Units will also have to change their Articles of Incorporation in their state - - no more than $50. We would Grandfather as much as possible, like Past Presidents flags and issue stick-on decals of the new logo for existing membership badges.
I have one question on this...


How will this logo change and name change increase membership, resolve problems within the WBCCI and service the existing membership. For the estimated expense of $21,300 (at the international level), what are the members going to see happen (besides new flags for officers, new badges and new stickers)?


BTW, We are ordering new numbers and new stickers of the current type BEFORE this valuable piece of history goes bye bye.
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Old 12-19-2005, 02:30 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
ok, this came in while I was composing my last post.

that would only mean that 50% of the people that responded to the poll are wbcci members. that in no way indicates that 50% of the registered members here are wbcci members.
Again, without the benefit of the poll in front of me, all I can say is that the majority of respondents have indicated that they were not aware of a vote and do not desire a change. I think we are talking about 2 diffrent polls. I am not talking about the poll that asks if members want the change. I am talking about the poll that asks who are members of WBCCI.
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Old 12-19-2005, 03:02 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wkerfoot
Buttercup.

Where did you get the 50% WBCCI membership number?

Also even though some members are passionate about the name change issue, there are only a couple of hundred postings to those threads and many are by the same members. Of the 5,000 WBCCI members on this board only a few seem to care.

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Old 12-19-2005, 03:08 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
I am talking about the poll that asks who are members of WBCCI.
me too. a tiny portion of the 10,000+ forum membership participated. there's no way you can extrapolate from that poll that there are 5000 wbcci members here, much less the opinion of the wbcci membership as a whole, from a couple of small polls. At "holiday" time, especially. when people are really busy, and even less likely to see the polls!

I'm not saying that I'm an expert on the demographics of either group (wbcci or 'forums), but I don't think we're indicative of the wally club. We're more of an "Airstream Life" group here. (my impression. no stats or facts to back this up). But I do know, from the publisher of Airstream Life himself, that wbcci is not his main target audience. and I'm certain that he's studied the demographics very thoroughly.
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Old 12-19-2005, 03:37 PM   #161
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I've been reading through the Blue Book to see what the voting procedures are. I understand the delegate business. The problem as I see it is that you (individually and as a unit) have to have a delegate in person at the appropriate meeting. That means if it is not possible to send a delegate then you have no voice and no input. THAT needs to change. Our unit is small, and many members are still working. It is very difficult to get someone to go to regional functions, never mind international functions. Another point, at least with our membership, they are not enthusiastic about going to a region or international rally because of the rules, structure, and feeling like an outsider. We try to encourage them but it is an uphill struggle. I am well aware that some rules and structure are necessary - but! On top of that, at least when I was considering going to the last Region rally, I read that if I wanted to attend the business meeting I would be expected to adhere to certain clothing requirements. I can even understand that to a certain extent. The voting system as defined by WBCCI, may be OK but there are serious problems with the communications about issues that need a vote and there definitely needs to be some review of how to include and enable all members to vote, whether or not they attend or have their delegates attend the appropriate meetings in the appropriate dress. Speaking of the blue book (the WBCCI bylaws and constitution) as I understand it, it is available to members for a fee. Certain officers are provided with a copy. To me it should be available on-line for all members. How in the world can you make good decisions unless you have the facts, the background, and an understanding of the how and why of an organizations operations.

Lastly, if the name is changed to Airstream Owners Association excluding Wally Byam, then I for one may be found non compliant because I think that is the worst possible choice that could be made. That's not even a compromise, It is capitulation, and in my opinion, for the wrong reasons.
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Old 12-19-2005, 03:55 PM   #162
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I still don't understand the process, and what is going to be voted on at the IBT meeting? What is going to be voted on at the International Meeting? Seems like there's one option on the table, and no discussion or way of getting another option considered.

Were there other names to choose from and did we vote on those, or did our deligates? I don't understand why there seems to be one choice, and it's been decided, and it's just a matter of ok-ing it now.
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Old 12-19-2005, 04:04 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraBreeze
I've been reading through the Blue Book to see what the voting procedures are...
On top of that, at least when I was considering going to the last Region rally, I read that if I wanted to attend the business meeting I would be expected to adhere to certain clothing requirements.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat???????? Unless jeans and a t-shirt are included on their list, you would NEVER see me at one of these get-togethers! I don't even own a dress!!! This is just another sad example of being stuck in the 1950's....

Getting away from this stupidity is much more important than changing the name of the club!
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Old 12-19-2005, 04:08 PM   #164
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It is the responsibility of the President to have a delegate at the meeting for a vote, the president does not necessarily have to be that person, but must comminucate the unit's vote to the delegate.

As I understand it, the IBT Name Change Committee has been tasked with coming up with a name that will then brought to the delegates at International for either acceptance or not by a vote. If it does not pass, then the the IBT will go back to the drawing board and come up with another name until one is agreed upon.

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Old 12-19-2005, 04:33 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
me too. a tiny portion of the 10,000+ forum membership participated. there's no way you can extrapolate from that poll that there are 5000 wbcci members here,
This is a perfectly reasonable way of estimating the feelings of the group as a whole. It works for Nielsen Media Research when rating the viewing habits of the American people and when plotting out the human genome. This method of estimation probably has a margin of error no more than 10 % but even at that the responses still indicate that 5 to 1 ratio Roy talks about is far outside the views expressed here. Ihis is somewhat irrelevant.

I believe what I see here (poll results, members responses here on the forums) before I believe an anecdotal response from just one individual any day.
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Old 12-19-2005, 04:55 PM   #166
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Its not reasonable. The numbers are so small, I question whether or not they are statistically significant. the neilsons poll millions; not 268. and the respondants are not self-selecting. A poll taken here is completely unscientific.

The fact that Roy's numbers are so different indicates that SOMEbody's answer to the question ("what does the membership want?") is completely and utterly wrong.
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Old 12-19-2005, 05:37 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
Its not reasonable. The numbers are so small, I question whether or not they are statistically significant. the neilsons poll millions; not 268. and the respondants are not self-selecting. A poll taken here is completely unscientific.

The fact that Roy's numbers are so different indicates that SOMEbody's answer to the question ("what does the membership want?") is completely and utterly wrong.
Aaaa - O.K. - let's look at this ratio. For Nielson to have as many respondents to equal the ratio we are experiencing for our “unscientific poll” they would have to have almost 15 million people reporting TV watching for the population of this country alone. That is a lot of paperwork for them to be processing.


As a statistical analysis (and certainly for the informal purposes of this forum) – 5% respondents IS more than sufficient sample to formulate a reasonable estimate. But really this isn't what the subject is about – is it? Weather or not you agree with the numbers is irrelevant to me. It doesn't need to be drawn out because it takes only away from the real topic.


What is relevant is that there is a strong sense of disagreement by the respondants of this thread with the position that WBCCI is taking to change the name/logo and how that decision was arrived at. That is what we are talking about here.
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Old 12-19-2005, 06:07 PM   #168
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I think I know why the percentages are different...different collection points. If you take a survey in say a shopping mall and then at a Nascar track you are going to get two different groups of people so the answers should be different. Here you are getting a statistically younger and computer savy population. The bulk of the ones that voted at the unit meetings are older and may or may not be on this board....So what does that do to statistics...Which BTW I passed in college for some strange reason...

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