WBCCI New Constitution

[DanB]

Your correlation to GE, GM, and J&J is spot on and correct!

I guess the primary difference is that the shareholders of those corporations desired and approved those changes!

Past history has shown that the membership of our club wants the name to be the Wally Byam Caravan Club International.

Adding unneeded fuel to a fire at this time is probably a bad idea. Lets get the critical stuff past first.

[66Overlander]

Of all the many changes included in the revised constitution, this is one of the less concerning ones to me. Unlike the name change attempt several years ago, Wally's name is not being removed.

I would think that adding this second line would make it harder to pass any change that would allow non-Airstreams into the club with full membership privileges. Heck, that "tag line" should also make it harder to change the bylaws to allow participation in club events in a non-Airstream RV. Aren't these good things?

And to agree with someones earlier post, I too generally have to explain that WBCCI is "the Airstream club" (no offense to TAC) when talking to others. Since that is no big deal to me, I don't see an issue with adding the tag line.

However, some people are more conspiracy theorists than I am. I could see where some of them might see this as "step 1", where "step 2" (someday) would be to remove the main line and make the full name that "tag line", thus removing Wally altogether. I would not support that change at all.

P.S. And just to clarify, I am not really for this change, but then I am not really against it either. I am indifferent to it.

[Boondocker]

Originally Posted by Boondocker

As a side note, isn't this whole document being presented as a motion of the IP? and if this is the case, would he have to accept any amendments?

Anyone?

[azflycaster]

Originally Posted by Boondocker

Anyone?

In theory you are correct. Amendments can be made to the motion. The meeting is chaired by the maker of the motion who will rule if a motion is out of order or not. He can seek the advice of the parliamentarian, who just happens to be the chair of the committee that created the revision.

There are things that can be done if it is believed that the meeting chairman is not acting in an impartial manner. These include appealing the decision of the chair, replacing the chairman of the meeting or calling for an adornment to the meeting. All of these items are covered in Roberts Rules...

[DanB]

You are correct that Wally's name is not being removed. But, if passed, it will become optional at the discretion of the user.

Maybe I'm beating down an small issue, but i just feel this doesn't belong.

moving on......

[Boondocker]

Originally Posted by azflycaster

In theory you are correct. Amendments can be made to the motion. The meeting is chaired by the maker of the motion who will rule if a motion is out of order or not. He can seek the advice of the parliamentarian, who just happens to be the chair of the committee that created the revision.

There are things that can be done if it is believed that the meeting chairman is not acting in an impartial manner. These include appealing the decision of the chair, replacing the chairman of the meeting or calling for an adornment to the meeting. All of these items are covered in Roberts Rules...

Years ago, when I was in High School, I was a member of the FFA. One of the things that was central to the organization was training in parliamentary procedure. So, strange as it may seem, weeks and weeks of class room time in Ag class went to learning how the system works. This training may be the most useful education I received in High School. Although this was years ago, I cant believe THAT much can have changed in how PP works. On the basis of my memory a few points seem important.

1. The originator of a motion must accept amendments. So in this case, the IP, as the the originator, would maintain ultimate control over what is voted on.

2. As the originator, the IP is bound to 'pass the gavel' during the discussions on his motion.

3. Unlike in FFA competitions, there will be no truly neutral authority to turn to if the the chair and other officials are acting in cahoots. Hence, the rules will mean what they say they mean.

If amendments are offered and declined by the IP, the delegates are faced with an up or down vote. In order to offer the changes, they would have to make motions of their own (ask Forest how well that works). Without a way to insure that Parliamentary Procedure will be honored, it doesn't matter what the rules are- it is a stacked deck.

[HowieE]

Lets give the IP a brake. He and he alone commissioned this Committee. Do you really think he would have let this go this far only to stand before the members and make a complete ass of himself by destroying what he been an active party to. The Committee did not spring this on him at the last minute. He has been party to conversations through out the committees work.

Yes the Club has a history of Freckless Leadership by egotists with a well documented agenda of self preservation and gratification. This IP has stepped up to the plate and at least attempted to facilitate change before the Club implodes.

There is a proposal on the table that would give 1m 1v in the passage of future changes to the Bylaws. Lets secure that right before the only members left to vote are the friends and relatives of the Freckless Leaders.

Several have questioned the need for a new Constitution before the Bylaws can be rewritten. I would liken it to the need to reconstruct the foundation of a house that has been blown away by storm. There is no scene in reconstructing the bathroom if it does not have a sound foundation to rest on.

Our current Constitution was not written by the Club it was written by the Airstream Corporation when they had a vested interest in the Club as a marketing tool for the sale of Airstreams. We have no obligation to that Corporation and should not be bound by a document that supported their goals. The "Grand American Tour" used to complement the Airstream sales force and thus the history of cash subsidies from Airstream that are no longer forth coming. Lets move on and get our house in order for the benefit of the membership, the last source of funding.

Look out a few years. If things are left to follow the current path of reduced membership and over expenditures the most vulnerable asset of the Club is the HQ. If left to the current mindset there will be reductions in staff and eventually the loss of the facility itself before the Grand American Tour will come to and end. That facility and organizational setup will be almost impossible to recreate without massive amounts of money that just will not be available.

[LI Pets]

Originally Posted by Boondocker

1. The originator of a motion must accept amendments. So in this case, the IP, as the the originator, would maintain ultimate control over what is voted on.

2. As the originator, the IP is bound to 'pass the gavel' during the discussions on his motion.

3. Unlike in FFA competitions, there will be no truly neutral authority to turn to if the the chair and other officials are acting in cahoots. Hence, the rules will mean what they say they mean.

If amendments are offered and declined by the IP, the delegates are faced with an up or down vote. In order to offer the changes, they would have to make motions of their own (ask Forest how well that works). Without a way to insure that Parliamentary Procedure will be honored, it doesn't matter what the rules are- it is a stacked deck.

Perhaps not neutral, (in fact bias in positive way) 3 if not 4 of the Committee members will be on the floor as delegates, we are familiar with RONR and I assure you all that will be difficult.

Moreover, the committee has had first hand conversations with the IP and believes he has a strong commitment for it's adoption.

If amendments are proposed and discussed they will then be voted upon.

If they are voted in or out by the delegates we move to the next article.

The IP can't override the vote of the delegates.

Originally Posted by azflycaster

Amendments can be made to the motion. The meeting is chaired by the maker of the motion who will rule if a motion is out of order or not. He can seek the advice of the parliamentarian, who just happens to be the chair of the committee that created the revision.

There are things that can be done if it is believed that the meeting chairman is not acting in an impartial manner. These include appealing the decision of the chair, replacing the chairman of the meeting or calling for an adornment to the meeting. All of these items are covered in Roberts Rules...

Sure, but you're going way out into the land of of remote probabilities to think that will happen.

Dona has a superior working knowledge of the book, the chair will rely upon her knowledge, but bring your copy of RONR with you, I'll have mine.

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[Ed Emerick]

Originally Posted by Coloradobus

Thanks Leo.

All I can say is "Vote No". What a cluster &*$@.

[wkerfoot]

Since the members of the revision committee have not answered my questions about the revised constitution, I have told my unit president that my vote is no.

And if I sound upset, I am.

Bill

[rideair]

Howie,

I love that you’re are so passionate about this club and want to make changes to keep the club going into the future. But here’s “the but” to your last post.

In your words “Do you really think he would have let this go this far only to stand before the members and make a complete ass of himself”

Answer: “NO” for bold face lairs will not, they will lie their way out of something. (Just ask Forrest)

In your words “There is a proposal on the table that would give 1m 1v in the passage of future changes to the Bylaws”.

Correction: Look at the “New Constitution” is keeps the power of writing the “Bylaws” with the “IBT”. So even if every one of the 6000+ members voted for the New Constitution, nothing changes with whom can write and change the “Bylaws”.

That takes us to the last one.

In your words “reduced membership and over expenditures”
Answer: It is not the “Constitution” that has created “most” of the problems over the years with the membership but the WBCCI “Bylaws” and the fact the IBT has given themselves $$$$ for travel, grievances rules out the yang, etc.. etc.. etc… This is all in the “Bylaws” not the Constitution.

Everyone, please read this thing and see who has the power to change were the money spent and power to make the “everyday” rules and you will see the New Constitution does nothing to change it.

[RickDavis]

If the new constitution passes does that make all the current bylaws null and void? All the pages of how to fly your flag and how to display your badge?

[LI Pets]

Originally Posted by rideair

Correction: Look at the “New Constitution” is keeps the power of writing the “Bylaws” with the “IBT”. So even if every one of the 6000+ members voted for the New Constitution, nothing changes with whom can write and change the “Bylaws”.

Paul did you get a copy of the new Bylaws from the Revision committee?

[LI Pets]

Originally Posted by RickDavis

If the new constitution passes does that make all the current bylaws null and void? All the pages of how to fly your flag and how to display your badge?

No, not until the the new Bylaws are adopted.


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[wkerfoot]

Will the new bylaws be distributed to any member who wishes to read them or only a select few?

Bill

Originally Posted by LI Pets

Paul did you get a copy of the new Bylaws from the Revision committee?

[rideair]

Bob,

I've seen the WBCCI "New Constitution" as posted here back on page 30 or so. As for the new WBCCI "Bylaws", have they been released for review? If so, post them here for all to see please.

I await for the pdf.

Please do not send it to me, but please post here.

Thank You,

[LI Pets]

Originally Posted by wkerfoot

Will the new bylaws be distributed to any member who wishes to read them or only a select few?

Bill

Originally Posted by rideair

Bob,

I've seen the WBCCI "New Constitution" as posted here back on page 30 or so. As for the new WBCCI "Bylaws", have they been released for review? If so, post them here for all to see please.

I await for the pdf.

Please do not send it to me, but please post here.

Thank You,

Although the Bylaws have had a first draft re-written they are on the back burner until the Constitution as is or as amended is adopted.

Before the cart is added to horse.........

We are in waiting to get back to it after its adoption.

Until then hold your horses


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[wkerfoot]

I am holding my horses, you are the one who said that a copy had been sent.

Bill

Originally Posted by LI Pets

Although the Bylaws have had a first draft re-written they are on the back burner until the Constitution as is or as amended is adopted.

Before the cart is added to horse.........

We are in waiting to get back to it after its adoption.

Until then hold your horses


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[RickDavis]

Originally Posted by LI Pets

No, not until the the new Bylaws are adopted.


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Does this mean new bylaws have been written? If not who is going to do this?
Using the terms constitution and bylaws somewhat interchangeably is getting confusing.

If the rewrite is by the same committee is there any guarantee that the committee will exist after the next IP change?

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by LI Pets

It is important to understand that the Constitution and its Bylaws are a very integrated package, where any change, even a small one, can have unintended consequences in one, two or five other areas.

The above statement was made some time ago and it is only reasonable to assume that a draft of the proposed new bylaws exists. It may be true (but disingenuous) to say that the draft of the new bylaws does not yet exist, but only because not every “i” has been dotted and not every “t” has been crossed. It’s a fair bet that the EC and the Constitution and Bylaws Revision Committee have a pretty good idea of what they want.

Just within the last few minutes there have been intimations on this thread that such not only exists, but may even be in circulation to a chosen few.

So why haven’t the members, who are expected to approve the proposed new constitution, been given this information? If the EC and the C&BL Revision Committee think they know where they are taking the WBCCI, how about letting the rest of us in on the secret?

Originally Posted by HowieE

Several have questioned the need for a new Constitution before the Bylaws can be rewritten. I would liken it to the need to reconstruct the foundation of a house that has been blown away by storm. There is no scene in reconstructing the bathroom if it does not have a sound foundation to rest on.

A nice analogy, Howie. But if we’re being asked to construct the foundation, first let’s see the plans for the house!

Absent that, it seems incumbent on the membership to pull the emergency brake cord on this runaway train before the WBCCI is railroaded into yet another crisis.
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