|
|
03-02-2011, 08:16 PM
|
#301
|
Rivet Master
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer
, Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,082
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbmbstreamer
The key? Get a sufficient number of Delegates who are instructed to vote as they believe their membership would wish and then engage in constructive debate.
|
Typically there have been a number of units not represented at the International Rally and I wonder if this year there may be still fewer in attendance than previous years. Regardless of how the unit members vote and propose changes unless someone is going to sit out a day or two or more of these meetings at a high expense to attend the rally and also to travel to the rally site, many members will not be represented at all. Or just perhaps, attendance will receive a much needed boost from its current number of registered attendees entirely because of the new constitution, but I do doubt that happening.
|
|
|
03-02-2011, 08:19 PM
|
#302
|
Rivet Master
2006 25' Safari SS SE
1969 27' Overlander
Martinez
, Georgia
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 759
|
If the Popular will is ignored or ruled out of order, vote no. It only takes 1/3 plus 1 to kill. Don't give up before the meeting.
__________________
Matt
WBCCI # 3518
TAC# GA-6
|
|
|
03-02-2011, 08:28 PM
|
#303
|
Rivet Master
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer
, Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,082
|
Units should make provision for an alternate if necessary. Can someone refresh my memory as to the requirements that are mandated for an alternate to qualify to bring the unit's vote forward? I remember a simple designated proxy will not be accepted. Planning will be necessary and a last minute trip cancellation could stop a unit from representation unfortunately.
|
|
|
03-02-2011, 08:36 PM
|
#304
|
Rivet Master
1974 31' Sovereign
1970 23' Safari
1956 26' Cruiser Overlander
Lambertville
, Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,174
|
I beleive the point here is that the "New Constitution" itself should have never gotten this far without the (solicited) will of the membership. I am with Rodney on this one, I have never seen any official WBCCI document that mentions anything about a "New Constitution" being thought about, constructed, written or anything. And by official I mean on WBCCI letter head, not just a typed signature from somebody claiming to be the IP. The affore posted email mentions only the invitation to suggest (in writing, to the appropriate people/person) a revsion to the current ruling documents.
Futhermore, I am shocked at the statement made of having to FIRST pass a new constitution SO THAT the bylaws can then be written and presumably adopted without membership approval.
__________________
Dave
TAC# MI-1
Operation "Save Rudy" Strike Team (charter member)
Yes, I am still working on it.
|
|
|
03-02-2011, 08:40 PM
|
#305
|
Site Team
2002 25' Safari
Dewey
, Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 15,616
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested
Units should make provision for an alternate if necessary. Can someone refresh my memory as to the requirements that are mandated for an alternate to qualify to bring the unit's vote forward? I remember a simple designated proxy will not be accepted. Planning will be necessary and a last minute trip cancellation could stop a unit from representation unfortunately.
|
An alternate is selected by the unit. There are 2 forms which the Unit President needs to fill out. One is the delegate form and the other is the alternate delegate form. The signature of the Unit President is all that is required. The delegate and alternate should be members of that unit. A recent change allows a delegate to be an associate member of the unit if they are members of a unit in the same region and are not delegate for the other unit.
Hope that makes sense...
__________________
Richard
Wally Byam Airstream Club 7513
|
|
|
03-02-2011, 09:09 PM
|
#306
|
Rivet Master
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer
, Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,082
|
Yes it does make sense. Thank you Richard. You explained it very clearly.
It's that same region restriction that I find problematic. A distant region may have more difficulty in finding a delegate to attend than a unit in closer proximity to the rally site. It takes more time to travel and it's more expensive for that delegate to represent their unit. A verification call, fax or e-mail from the unit president to transfer validation to another member who is in attendance would allow a higher success rate of maximum coverage though out the club. We shall see what is proposed in the new constitution without delegates in the future...
Bob, can you tell us how that would play out without a meeting at the International as is the current and past practice of deliberation and voting? How do the unorganized members organize for discussion? Is it through the area representatives? Must the area president give approval and recommendation to move an item forward as new business? Will all region officers be eliminated and new area officers selected, and how; or if the current region officers will be reduced in number, how will that be accomplished?
I would have liked to have seen a change for delegates to preside over their own meeting rather than the Executive Committee officiating instead of the total elimination of the status and provision to address issues collectively. I think the ability to work together electronically, without geographic, or the current meeting date restrictions, would be a much more productive and cost effective approach to conducting business. I believe you said future amendments will take less time in the future. Can you give an example of how?
|
|
|
03-02-2011, 10:11 PM
|
#307
|
Silver Mist
Currently Looking...
Riverhead
, New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,011
|
Carol,
If there are any proposed amendments to the CoC or Constitution they will be published before the Int rally, there would be a meeting to debate any amendment(s), this meeting would be open to all members.
The IP would preside over the meeting, after which the originator may make any changes. A ballot would be sent out to be completed and returned to HQ by mail or electronic means by a date certain, the votes would be tallied within 5 days and the results published.
Time frame <60 days to the meeting of members.
__________________
Bob
|
|
|
03-02-2011, 11:53 PM
|
#308
|
Rivet Master
Aurora
, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 645
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by drag'nwagon
Futhermore, I am shocked at the statement made of having to FIRST pass a new constitution SO THAT the bylaws can then be written and presumably adopted without membership approval.
|
I've said this before and I'll say it again. The revised bylaws were written first. The committee then realized their revision conflicted with the current constitution, and so set itself to rewritting the constitution. This is why President Beu's letter only refers to streamlining the bylaws. No letter was ever sent out asking for input on a new constitution.
The cart is before the horse.
__________________
Forrest
Out for coffee!
|
|
|
03-03-2011, 12:04 AM
|
#309
|
Rivet Master
Aurora
, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 645
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets
1.to continue to be a member they can't own an SOB but if I recall if in good standing they can run.
2. there are about 500 Mal's to be notified, good question.
|
Bob, when are you going to tell them that the revised constitution does not give MALs a vote?
When will you tell them that members who sell their Airstream can continue as members as long as they do not buy SOB, UNLESS it is SOB parked in a permanent or semi-permanent location, used as a vacation home?
__________________
Forrest
Out for coffee!
|
|
|
03-03-2011, 12:31 AM
|
#310
|
Rivet Master
1982 28' Airstream 280
Port Angeles
, Washington
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,943
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest
Bob, when are you going to tell them that the revised constitution does not give MALs a vote?
When will you tell them that members who sell their Airstream can continue as members as long as they do not buy SOB, UNLESS it is SOB parked in a permanent or semi-permanent location, used as a vacation home?
|
What if the member buys the SOB before they sell their Airstream? The devil is always in the details.
Forrest can you give us any update on your amendment progress?
Thanks, Dan
|
|
|
03-03-2011, 03:09 AM
|
#311
|
Restorations done right
Commercial Member
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore
, Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,545
|
|
|
|
03-03-2011, 05:04 AM
|
#312
|
Silver Mist
Currently Looking...
Riverhead
, New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,011
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest
No letter was ever sent out asking for input on a new constitution.
|
Forrest’s surprised at that remark…..in our conversations we spoke about the use of the word bylaws meaning both.
As far as asking for input see the last line in the 8/29 email below " Should you have an input for study by the Committee, please communicate directly with Dona." additionally you know a thread was started on this forum for input.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest
The revised bylaws were written first. The committee then realized their revision conflicted with the current constitution, and so set itself to rewritting the constitution.
|
From the beginning this committee was doing both the bylaws and constitution AKA the Bylaws.
It was not an opps moment as to the conflict at all.
We could have presented both at the mid-winter, but what if the Constitution is amended at the delegates meeting, that was the possible conflict not that we changed direction.
We set time table in August to have the bylaws done a certain date and the constitution by another date.
In presenting the constitution first it was the most logical way to accomplish a Revision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwightdi
From: Norman Beu <beu146@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 10:44:19 -0500
Subject: Membership
Friends
The selection of members for the Bylaws Revision Committee, approved by the Executive Committee on July 5, 2010, is now complete. I am pleased to announce the following appointments:
Dona Garner, Chairman, WBCCI Parliamentarian
Kerry Mattila, President, Ontario Canada Unit
Joe Perryman, 1st Vice President, Region 10
Bob Novak, Member, Metro New York Unit
Tom Smithson, First Vice President, Northern California Unit
I have encouraged Dona to consult with the 2020 Committee, the Vintage Airstream Club, and others as appropriate. I want to thank Dona, Kerry, Joe, Bob and Tom for stepping forward to the challenge of this significant task. My personal interest is to make the Blue Book more user friendly, to reduce the bulk, to review Standing Committee Job Descriptions, and to identify impediments to "fun, fellowship and adventure" - all the while retaining the essential character and the traditions of the WBCCI, including the Code of Ethics. Should you have an input for study by the Committee, please communicate directly with Dona.
Safe Travels
Norm Beu
President, WBCCI
|
Rod the above email wasn’t enough as you stated, below see the 9/17 excerpt from the Presidents Monthly Newsletter distributed via Constant Contact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondocker
Interesting, how was that distributed? I don't recall seeing it. If you can show it went to everyone, then I halfway withdraw my show me a single document comment. But if it did not, then I wont. Beyond which, that announcement does not contemplate a complete rewrite, it clearly implies a tweaking.
|
Perhaps you missed those emails?
A revision in not a tweak see RONR p 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest
… This is why President Beu's letter only refers to streamlining the bylaws.
|
Incorrect as you can see in p 1 below
I know you have RONR please see p 575 a revision is everything.
The term Bylaws encompassing the Constitution is common.
In an email-International President's Newsletter, which was sent on 09/17/2010 2:15 PM EDT by Constant Contact the following was stated;
The following represents current information of general interest to the WBCCI membership.
1. The Constitution and Bylaws Revision Special Committee is taking shape. Approved during the International Convention/Rally at Gillette, WY on July 5, 2010, the Committee includes:
· Dona Garner, Committee Chairman and WBCCI Parliamentarian
· Kerry Mattila, President , Ontario Canada Unit
· Joe Perryman, 1 VP, Region 10
· Bob Novak, Member, Metro New York Unit
· Tom Smithson, 1VP, Northern California Unit
The Committee's initial report will be made during the January 24-28, 2011 Mid-Winter IBT Rally in Robstown, Texas. My general guidance to the Committee was to recommend revision to the Blue Book which would reduce the "bulk" and make it more user friendly, while at the same time retaining the essential character and traditions of the WBCCI, to include the Code of Ethics. The Committee is already hard at work, and I congratulate each member for stepping forward to contribute to this potentially significant effort.
Norm Beu
.
The Blue book is the Constitution, bylaws and policies.
.
__________________
Bob
|
|
|
03-03-2011, 05:08 AM
|
#313
|
Silver Mist
Currently Looking...
Riverhead
, New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,011
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest
Bob, when are you going to tell them that the revised constitution does not give MALs a vote?
|
I can't when it does!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest
When will you tell them that members who sell their Airstream can continue as members as long as they do not buy SOB, UNLESS it is SOB parked in a permanent or semi-permanent location, used as a vacation home?
|
No one asked, but it does
.
__________________
Bob
|
|
|
03-03-2011, 05:19 AM
|
#314
|
Rivet Master
1961 24' Tradewind
1969 29' Ambassador
1970 21' Globetrotter
Jamestown
, Tennessee
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,783
|
"retaining the essential character and traditions of the WBCCI, to include the Code of Ethics. The Committee is already hard at work, and I congratulate each member for stepping forward to contribute to this potentially significant effort.
Norm Beu
Am I correct that the CODE OF ETHICS was not retained in the new version.?
That the ethics and grievance comittee will be gone?
Would the new code of conduct be basically a suggestion? Or is there some way it could be misused to harass members in the same way the code of ethics was?
__________________
Rick Davis 1602 K8DOC
61 tradewind, plus a few others
13 Ram 2500 TD
99 Dodge TD 577K miles
|
|
|
03-03-2011, 05:24 AM
|
#315
|
Silver Mist
Currently Looking...
Riverhead
, New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,011
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickDavis
Am I correct that the CODE OF ETHICS was not retained in the new version.?
That the ethics and grievance comittee will be gone?
Would the new code of conduct be basically a suggestion? Or is there some way it could be misused to harass members in the same way the code of ethics was?
|
CoE gone,
grievance committee gone
CoC can't be used that way, I know where you're coming from no issue there.
If someone does something so egregious, action can be taken according to and thru RONR, but its a totally different process.
__________________
Bob
|
|
|
03-03-2011, 06:27 AM
|
#316
|
Rivet Master
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,803
|
Well,
Now that the CoE is out, Grievance Committee out, Leo could be back in!
This thing might be worth passing after all.
__________________
Paul Waddell
|
|
|
03-03-2011, 06:47 AM
|
#317
|
Rivet Master
2006 25' Safari SS SE
1969 27' Overlander
Martinez
, Georgia
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 759
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets
Carol,
If there are any proposed amendments to the CoC or Constitution they will be published before the Int rally, there would be a meeting to debate any amendment(s), this meeting would be open to all members.
The IP would preside over the meeting, after which the originator may make any changes. A ballot would be sent out to be completed and returned to HQ by mail or electronic means by a date certain, the votes would be tallied within 5 days and the results published.
Time frame <60 days to the meeting of members.
|
You are partially correct.
Once the process has been followed and the Delegates are deliberating, the proposed amendment may be "perfected" by simple majority vote. The IP and Parliamentarian explained the process in Sarasota.
The proposed change will be discussed, one article at a time. The change proposed for each article may be revised by simple majority vote of the delegates. Following completion of this process, the "perfected" proposal will be subject to a vote, requiring a 2/3 approval.
The units will debate the original proposal and, hopefully instruct their delegate to work toward improvement. Otherwise, this change will not likely pass.
__________________
Matt
WBCCI # 3518
TAC# GA-6
|
|
|
03-03-2011, 07:46 AM
|
#318
|
Rivet Master
1961 24' Tradewind
1969 29' Ambassador
1970 21' Globetrotter
Jamestown
, Tennessee
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,783
|
It seems that one of the major problems with passing (or not) these changes is that we have to use the old system where the delegates and IBT can slice and dice everything that comes before them. I would be happy to see the demise of this along with the burial of the code of ethics and all that goes with it.
__________________
Rick Davis 1602 K8DOC
61 tradewind, plus a few others
13 Ram 2500 TD
99 Dodge TD 577K miles
|
|
|
03-03-2011, 08:29 AM
|
#319
|
Rivet Master
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer
, Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,082
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by [B
LI Pets][/B]
Carol,
If there are any proposed amendments to the CoC or Constitution they will be published before the Int rally, there would be a meeting to debate any amendment(s), this meeting would be open to all members.
The IP would preside over the meeting, after which the originator may make any changes. A ballot would be sent out to be completed and returned to HQ by mail or electronic means by a date certain, the votes would be tallied within 5 days and the results published.
Time frame <60 days to the meeting of members.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbmbstreamer
You are partially correct.
Once the process has been followed and the Delegates are deliberating, the proposed amendment may be "perfected" by simple majority vote. The IP and Parliamentarian explained the process in Sarasota.
The proposed change will be discussed, one article at a time. The change proposed for each article may be revised by simple majority vote of the delegates. Following completion of this process, the "perfected" proposal will be subject to a vote, requiring a 2/3 approval.
The units will debate the original proposal and, hopefully instruct their delegate to work toward improvement. Otherwise, this change will not likely pass.
|
We are not on the same page here. I was asking Bob how the amendment or motion process would work without having delegates, once and if, the New Constitution passes as it is currently written. From here on we may want to designate our comments and questions as B.C. (before the new constitution) and A.D. (Anno Domini...after the time of its emergence and separation from the body, or simply after delegates are no more.)Whoops I apologize for being confused and confusing and will try to make myself and the distinction clearer in the future.
Matt, I did want to ask you if you could present your power point presentation as a webinar? I think some units or individuals may not have the opportunity to view the presentation otherwise. Besides going live on the internet it could be archived and available for download. Is that something that could be incorporated into WBCCI's method of release to the membership?
|
|
|
03-03-2011, 08:34 AM
|
#320
|
Rivet Master
2006 25' Safari SS SE
1969 27' Overlander
Martinez
, Georgia
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 759
|
My apologies to Bob. The thread wanders and so do I.
I'm expecting to get the PowerPoint from Jackson Center, as a UP. I think it will also be available at WBCCI.org.
When I have specific information, I will let you know.
__________________
Matt
WBCCI # 3518
TAC# GA-6
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|