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Old 02-16-2011, 11:09 AM   #113
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They have gotten smarter!

Appears to me the IB7/EC7 learned something from the last go round. If you release the information to early, it gives the side opposed to your changes enough time to create a defense strategy by picking the motion apart piece by piece educate the masses and win in the end like in the MOHO debate of 2007.

We were told three weeks ago there were “only” T’s that needed to be crossed and I’s that needed to be dotted. Over the past three weeks, it has now turned into

“The April issue has a Feb 15th deadline for copy, the committee has finished the final draft and is now in a final proof read.” (Which was yesterday)

To:

“So to adequately reflect or consider alternative amendments to this doc the average member needs more than 4 months? I don't think so.” (We are talking about a “complete re-write here! (Takes the EC7 over three weeks (and still not finished) just to cross “T’s” and dot “I’s”)

To:
“An information packet will go out to the units for their delegates to explain this in more detail.” (I wonder what side of the issues that document will fall on)

Thus, giving anyone opposing the changes time to break it down and educate their Unit by their Spring rally’s (especially the ones in the northern states). This is simply a power play on their side by withholding even the draft document for people to see. As we are getting smarter dealing with how the IBT/EC7 plays the rules (the WBCCI Constitution, By-Laws) they to are getting smarter by not giving out any information until they absolutely need too or are pressured to do so.
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Old 02-16-2011, 12:17 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rideair View Post
Appears to me the IB7/EC7 learned something from the last go round. If you release the information to early, it gives the side opposed to your changes enough time to create a defense strategy by picking the motion apart piece by piece educate the masses and win in the end like in the MOHO debate of 2007.

We were told three weeks ago there were “only” T’s that needed to be crossed and I’s that needed to be dotted. Over the past three weeks, it has now turned into

“The April issue has a Feb 15th deadline for copy, the committee has finished the final draft and is now in a final proof read.” (Which was yesterday)

To:

“So to adequately reflect or consider alternative amendments to this doc the average member needs more than 4 months? I don't think so.” (We are talking about a “complete re-write here! (Takes the EC7 over three weeks (and still not finished) just to cross “T’s” and dot “I’s”)

To:
“An information packet will go out to the units for their delegates to explain this in more detail.” (I wonder what side of the issues that document will fall on)

Thus, giving anyone opposing the changes time to break it down and educate their Unit by their Spring rally’s (especially the ones in the northern states). This is simply a power play on their side by withholding even the draft document for people to see. As we are getting smarter dealing with how the IBT/EC7 plays the rules (the WBCCI Constitution, By-Laws) they to are getting smarter by not giving out any information until they absolutely need too or are pressured to do so.
Come on Paul, we have this thread with 115 responses about this mystery document that no one has seen and that will cure all evils. What more can you possibly want? Personally I would think that the nearly 6000 paying members would want and deserve a little more respect.

Dan
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Old 02-16-2011, 02:56 PM   #115
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we will be less corrupt
Promise?

Eliminate the Executive Committee
Eliminate Mandatory Travel
Eliminate the Nominating Committee
Eliminate the Ethics and Grievance Committee
Adopt Forrest's Motion

Vote No Confidence

Original post June, 1985, updated 1992
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:12 PM   #116
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Difficult as it is to try to project without more concrete details, I do have a few specific apprehensions from the hints that have been dropped to us thus far. Obviously depending upon the facts, the cause for acceptance or alarm will become more obvious but theses are my concerns for the time being;

1. Eliminating delegates strips away the collective bargaining rights of the general membership. It may take away our right to have a voice and bargain in club business.

2. By reducing Region officers but maintaining the full number of the Executive Committee, the scale of power and exclusivity will be even more proportionately skewed in favor of the top leadship than already exists now. I think a vote by the region presidents would be a preferential method of filling the Executive Commitee office, which could also be reduced as well as the traveling standards to conduct business.

3. IMIV can be adopted by a unit's constitution and shouldn't be regarded as the carrot to accept all the new constitution.

Feel free to comment and or add your own points of interest while we all continue to remain at ease and hold for the new constitution's presentation...

I would like to hear from the general members and not the authoritarian voice of insider committee and team members for discussion without accusation and the obvious play of superfluous.
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:27 PM   #117
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yesterday you said

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Eliminate the Executive Committee.
then

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That's a sound idea [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Bob/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG], why would any organization need a President, VP, recording secretary or treasurer.
next you say

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They can stay.


today you say
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Originally Posted by mistral blue View Post

Eliminate the Executive Committee
Which is it!
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:28 PM   #118
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Wow Mistral Blue,

All of those things could be done with small changes to the exisiting WBCCI Constitution that would be "easy" to understand and would not require a total "re-write" and a few changes to the WBCCI "By-Laws" that can be done with a stroke of a pen by the IBT/EC7.

But that would be way to easy.

Don't you know, to really fix problems requires a total re-write of WBCCI Constitution, WBCCI By-Laws, that will require they take the "new" Constitution to a lawyer (word on the street that still needs to be done) for review to make sure they follow all the laws of Ohio, (costing the club even more money) To then send it out to the Unit Prez's and or membership via either an insert in the Blue Beret or on CD, etc... (costing the club more money, still yet to be decided). Along with all the office time that has been spent by the employee's at HQ answering phone calls on the subject (costing the club money with lost productivity)I wonder if everyone working on this subject paid for all their cost out of their own pocket?

I see how things are, they are allowed to take the better part of 6-7 months to write the thing and you're allow less than 2-3 months to fully understand the changes, educate your unit on the changes (good/bad/fair) get a vote from your unit membership (which the WDCU allowed up to June 1st), instruct your delegate(first find one willing to do the job) on what they can/cannot do in the voting.

Ya, seems fair to me!
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:34 PM   #119
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Bob,

What is the current schedule for the release of the revised constitution?

Bill
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:38 PM   #120
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Arrow Eliminate Article X of the Constitution

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Which is it!
Eliminate the Executive Committee
Eliminate Mandatory Travel
Eliminate the Nominating Committee
Eliminate the Ethics and Grievance Committee
Adopt Forrest's Motion
Adopt a No Deficit Spending Amendment

Vote No Confidence

Original post June, 1985, updated 1992
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Old 02-16-2011, 04:00 PM   #121
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Bob,

What is the current schedule for the release of the revised constitution?

Bill
We are waiting on Don Shaffer and the clubs law firm to verify a few points on Ohio law as it pertains to the new Constitution.

We know it has to be before March first!



.
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Old 02-16-2011, 07:32 PM   #122
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<<Mod Mode>>

We recognize the desire to discuss WBCCI topics here and encourage your dialog. This topic elicits strong opinion and emotion, and today we removed numerous posts that did not comply with the community policies.

The staff will continue monitoring these threads and will remove material as necessary to keep things on topic and civil. We strongly encourage everyone to be respectful of one another and keep posts in line with the thread title.

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Old 02-16-2011, 07:42 PM   #123
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Remind me again, what is magic about March 1?

Bill

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Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
We are waiting on Don Shaffer and the clubs law firm to verify a few points on Ohio law as it pertains to the new Constitution.

We know it has to be before March first!



.
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Old 02-16-2011, 08:26 PM   #124
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Bill,

The word on the street is, it can still make it into the Blue Beret either as an "insert" or by removing some content to put in the wording of the New Constitution if it gets to HQ by the 1st, but the main reason is below.. It states in the WBCCI Constitution

Art XVI, Sec 2

"Such proposed amendment(s) shall arrive at Headquarters by March 1. Headquarters shall distribute copies to the Presidents of all chartered Units by April 1 (90 days prior to the Delegates Meeting to which such proposed amendment(s) are to be presented, in order to give the units ample time to vote and instruct their Delegates. (6/30/93)"

Sec 3

"The Constitution and Bylaws Committee shall provide Headquarters with a written report containing its recommendations(s) regarding the proposed amendment(s) by March 20"
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Old 02-17-2011, 03:45 AM   #125
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WHOA!!! It is like Paul actually knows the rule book. And to think some said you had no idea....
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Old 02-17-2011, 04:20 PM   #126
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Carol be nice, civility aside on your part it would be better to wait than make non productive statements.

SOS
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