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Old 05-27-2011, 02:25 PM   #1037
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Stop with this miss information, misleading accusations.

My opinion is there will be 5 and I'm sticking to it.


.
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Old 05-27-2011, 03:45 PM   #1038
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Putting everything in to the Bylaws, without the Denco amendment, leaves everything up to the new reduced sized IBT which is dominated by the EC5. That allows the club to be more responsive but without oversight by the members. EC has always been dominated by: Military, law enforcement, and academia. Very few with marketing or business experience make it to the IBT or EC. The club seniority system favors those with early retirement and pensions. There is a broader experience base in the general membership and I feel the club would benefit, if they have a say in how things are run.
You will have no argument from me on this issue and that is why the committee has made it a point to have the membership look at the revision and develop amendments to allow for that level of oversight.

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Old 05-27-2011, 04:00 PM   #1039
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Bugdoc,

“Thank You” for your open and honest answer based on how the New Constitution is written. I’ve been trying to tell the very same thing to a member of the Revision Committee that has been going around provide misleading information on this subject to those here and at WBCCI Unit membership meetings in an effort to gather support for the New Constitution. This person keep's telling people it will save the club 17K dollars if they vote yes based on the reduction of Regions to the number of five which is clearly not in this document.

Either this member is purposely providing misinformation in an effort to mislead the membership or is uneducated on the very document that he was to have helped write!

I ask to you try to educate this individual for they will not listen to anyone here about this subject and in an effort to stop them from continuing to mislead and misinform the membership of the WBCCI

Again, THANK YOU!!
if my memory serves me right it has been proposed to reduce the number of Regions and one of the numbers mentioned was 5 and yes, that would save about 17K per year. However, as I stated earlier the actual number of regions is not something in the constitution.
What the IBT will do in regard to the number of Regions/Areas is not the issue here. That will be decided at some future date and if the revision is approved using the guideline in Article XII, Sec. 1.
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Old 05-27-2011, 05:52 PM   #1040
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Bugdoc,

Again, "Thank You" for saying the truth. So by passing the New Constitution it does not save the club 17K a year (as some would "lead us to believe" based on "their opinion") it does.

And since the number of Regions (as written) is in control of the IBT in the New Constitution, there's nothing to say they will/won't reduce the number to five (once again as some would "lead us to believe" they will "based on their opinion") or it could be something they slowly put in place over a few year period. At this point, no one really knows what/when the IBT "may" decide to do something in regards to the number of Regions.

For someone to go out and speak as if this is happening especially since they are a Revision Committee member and it's all "based on their opinion" and not what is actually in the document, if people knew about this they might think is was a little "deceptive" on the Revision Committees part.

Just want to make sure the correct information is out there!
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:58 PM   #1041
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Paul,

I don't want to get you too excited but, have you seen the IBT June meeting schedule? Specifically pages 10 , 38 & 39.

Sure makes one wonder.




http://wbcci.org/documents/IBT%20Mee...027%202011.pdf
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:32 PM   #1042
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Bugdoc,

Again, "Thank You" for saying the truth. So by passing the New Constitution it does not save the club 17K a year (as some would "lead us to believe" based on "their opinion") it does.

And since the number of Regions (as written) is in control of the IBT in the New Constitution, there's nothing to say they will/won't reduce the number to five (once again as some would "lead us to believe" they will "based on their opinion") or it could be something they slowly put in place over a few year period. At this point, no one really knows what/when the IBT "may" decide to do something in regards to the number of Regions.

For someone to go out and speak as if this is happening especially since they are a Revision Committee member and it's all "based on their opinion" and not what is actually in the document, if people knew about this they might think is was a little "deceptive" on the Revision Committees part.

Just want to make sure the correct information is out there!
Paul
I am sorry, but I am not sure who you are referring. Regardless, there are significant savings built into the revision, e.g., elimination of the 3rd VP position, the need to realign and adjust the number of Regions/Areas if Article XII is adopted as written and a number of other significant provision. For example allowing for electronic meetings instead of paying officers to travel to a meeting location. All of these will lead to significant savings to the club. So to imply there are no savings is incorrect as there are.

As the document is considered and amended by the Delegates I can imagine there will be additional savings as the bureaucracy is slimmed down.

Tom
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:43 PM   #1043
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:M-A-O:

They ought to just withdraw this revised constitution now while they have the chance. Add this misguided effort to the THOR Motorhomes misguided effort and you've got enough there to drop the club another 3K members in the hole for 2012.
...it is the majority opinion of this committee that we recommend a motion before the Delegates as follows:

WBCCI Constitution, Article VI, Qualifications of Members, Section 1 to read:
"An Adult who owns a hard-sided recreational vehicle manufactured by Airstream, Inc., or a Class A motor home manufactured by Thor Industries, Inc. shall be eligible for membership."
Are you going to park up cozy to a THOR Class A? Are you going to allow the current self-important mind meld to bring SHEMP into the suit and tie fold, sitting in a THOR Class A looking down on you, dictating WBCCI policies and changes? What is it with these special committees and their Mad Hatter OUTPUT?

Sure there was a dissenting voice or two, but in the end they ALL DRINK THE KOOL-AID, they do what floats their own boat in a committee and they simply don't care the actual real-world effect of their amateur actions. Between these two, the boat might float, in a fully drained lake!

Once again they mention 400+ current class A's but where have these lock-steppers produced ANY DATA signifying that ANY PORTION of that 400+'rs needs or even wants a THOR Class A solution? Where are THOSE NUMBERS? 3 SOB MoHo committees and each one has failed the same test -- the burden of PROOF.

This is EXACTLY what these committees keep doing to this membership. Throwing garbage out there, hoping it will stick to the wall.

Where and when has REAL RELEVANT DATA been provided to the membership that proves out their desired amendments? Is there an engineer in the house that has ever heard of a Design of Experiment? A Statistically Designed and Analyzed POLL?

Time and time again this membership is fed pure manure for proposed amendments and each and every time EC7 committees fail at the burden of proof to justify their recommendations.

You know what the WBCCI deserves? To let this revised constitution AND the THOR motorhomes proposed amendments to BOTH pass as-is, this year. Screw the club DEATH SPIRAL -- club members should just settle for a DEATH BY FREE FALL instead. Get it over and be done with it.

How much would George have to change his message to make it fully apply to the WBCCI governance? Exactly how many words would have to be modified here? Not all that many -- surely an order of magnitude less than what this revision committee did to the club's current constitution...

If Only George Could Report on the WBCCI

Optimist huh? Check your pulse and get back to me...

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Please do not insult our intelligence by attempting to tie MH issue to the constitutional revision. The revision committee has nothingto do with this proposal and the implication in your post that there is some connection is truly and insult to the readers of this thread. If you are so concerned about the report to be presented to the IBT start another thread, but don't try and taint this one with your venom. My apologies to the moderator, but this is really to much.

Tom
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:44 PM   #1044
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Tom,

Regarding the electronic meetings, do you envision the elimination of the Mid Winter meeting, some of the meetings at the International Rally, the annual budget meeting in Jackson Center or some other meeting(s)?

Bill

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Paul
I am sorry, but I am not sure who you are referring. Regardless, there are significant savings built into the revision, e.g., elimination of the 3rd VP position, the need to realign and adjust the number of Regions/Areas if Article XII is adopted as written and a number of other significant provision. For example allowing for electronic meetings instead of paying officers to travel to a meeting location. All of these will lead to significant savings to the club. So to imply there are no savings is incorrect as there are.

As the document is considered and amended by the Delegates I can imagine there will be additional savings as the bureaucracy is slimmed down.

Tom
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:45 PM   #1045
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Bring on the Motorhomes!

TWaugh,

No excitement about that information on my part, in fact, just the opposite.

As you well know, there have been members of the special committee formed by Norm B. called the “Revision Committee” and some of it’s supporters have called me many names like, naysayer, troublemaker, that I didn’t care about the WBCCI, etc… with that said, I had decided I would embrace the next Special Committee’s recommendations whatever it might be (in this case the MOHO Committee’s report) in an effort to show everyone that I’m not just a trouble maker, not a naysayer or someone that is just trying to give people a hard time. I have decided I will “FULLY SUPPORT” the inclusion of any THOR motor home and ask that current amendment they suggested be changed to include “Any Manufacturer” of motor homes since I may someday soon buy a “Prevost” motorcoach.

If we are trying to save the club, we must not go about it half heartedly.

Maybe by supporting this change, I will prove to those on the Revision Committee that I (like them) are looking out for the best interest of the club and its growth in the future.

So with that,

BRING ON THE THOR and all other MOTORHOMES!!!!!!

May I even suggest a Delegate/Unit bring forth a motion to include any vendor MOHO into the New Constitution, I'd support the New Constitution based on that alone! No more being a "Naysayer" for me!

The WBCCI future is looking brighter with every new Special Committee.
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Old 05-27-2011, 10:14 PM   #1046
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Tom,

Regarding the electronic meetings, do you envision the elimination of the Mid Winter meeting, some of the meetings at the International Rally, the annual budget meeting in Jackson Center or some other meeting(s)?

Bill
I am only suggesting that meetings, which now require members of the IBT or EC to travel, at members expense, (travel is a budget item) could be reduced by using electronic meetings. This is not allowed in the current constitution. What meetings might fall in to this category will be up to the IP and the IBT, but the revision allows them to do it and save money.
Tom
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Old 05-27-2011, 10:19 PM   #1047
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Tom,

Are you aware of the California open meeting law, commonly called the Brown Act? It is important that the meetings which are now open to all members remain open and accessible. I would like to know how many other meetings are held without notice to the members. I know that the IBT holds pre meetings before the IBT seminars to discuss the agenda.

Bill

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I am only suggesting that meetings, which now require members of the IBT or EC to travel, at members expense, (travel is a budget item) could be reduced by using electronic meetings. This is not allowed in the current constitution. What meetings might fall in to this category will be up to the IP and the IBT, but the revision allows them to do it and save money.
Tom
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Old 05-27-2011, 10:47 PM   #1048
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If the club was originated in California, it might be forced to comply, but it isn't. It is a Ohio Corporation. Private clubs hold meetings between various officers all the time without notifying the members. However, most of their Constitutions do not allow them to keep the formal meeting results away from the members. Government bodies have to comply but subgroup meetings at state and local levels take place all the time but can not take legal actions without notifying the public. I am sure the International President of WBCCI holds meetings with various people and subgroups all the time and things are discussed. I am sure as a result of these discussions, some actions may be taken by some inner circle members, but they are not the complete IBT.
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Old 05-28-2011, 09:25 AM   #1049
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Bring it all together

If an effort to support all the Special Committee’s over the past few years that some would say has created such a divide in the WBCCI and caused so many to leave. It maybe time for everyone who has been “against” these changes to finally admit we could have been wrong about each and every Special Committee recommendation. Maybe we should have signed onto the name change; maybe we should have included other manufactures of MOHO’s, maybe we should embrace the Revision Committee’s “New Constitution”.

Now is the time to “Strike While the Iron is Hot” and include each and every one of these changes into the “New Constitution”. What makes any one of these Special Committee suggestions any better or worst than the other one? We have the chance before us to include “ALL” of them into the New Constitution and be done with it. Since what Revision Committee is doing (according to them) is not an “amendment” to our existing WBCCI Constitution but a “Revision” we can include anything we want since it does not have to pass the sniff test with the CBL. Since Don S. wants to include other THOR MOHO products into the WBCCI anyway, let us amend the New Constitution to do so! If you are going to include other products, it’s a great time to change the name of the club too, maybe the “AOTCI” Airstream Owners and Travel Club International. That simple name change allows us to include other MOHO’s and maybe even travel trailers in the future! Just think of the possible increase in membership there could be and takes us back to the roots of the club to a time when Wally Byam allowed other manufactures of trailer products to take part in his caravans.

Who would not vote for that?

I will be more than happy to change my vote to a “YES” if the New Constitution includes all of those changes asked for by the different Special Committee’s over the years. Nothing makes one Special Committee any better than the other, so let’s include them all.
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Old 05-28-2011, 10:53 AM   #1050
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... for some reason that makes total sense. I will be sending in my dues tomorrow.
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