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Old 05-27-2011, 08:03 AM   #1023
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Conflicting Information

Why are we being told conflicting information about the number of Regions that will come from the New Constitution? One person is saying it will be reduced to 5 Regions saving the WBCCI about 17K a year, another person is saying “no where” has the number of Regions been defined and that is all misinformation?

So Revision Committee, which is it?

Has the Region Reduction wording been used here and at Unit meetings to make people think it’s going to happen, thus getting them to sign on?

Sounds like double talk to me! You got one guy telling one story to get people to sign on and another telling people something else to cover the Committee’s backside.

I’m sure the answer will be, well that’s part of the “Bylaws” which the New Constitution does nothing about that
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Old 05-27-2011, 08:22 AM   #1024
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Matt,



In any case, the DenCo Amendment is proceeding toward ratification by the "grass roots" route of Article XVI, Section 1 of the present Constitution, and if ratified by 2/3 of the units will be adopted without the help or hindrance of the Delegates Meeting--assuming the Delegates haven't been eliminated by the time it is ratified.
.
Have any units actually received this amendment and voted on it?
What is the time table?

Haven't seen or heard anything about it from my unit and would like to know if it has been distributed and if we are being kept in the dark (again)
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Old 05-27-2011, 08:29 AM   #1025
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Originally Posted by rideair View Post
Why are we being told conflicting information about the number of Regions that will come from the New Constitution? One person is saying it will be reduced to 5 Regions saving the WBCCI about 17K a year, another person is saying “no where” has the number of Regions been defined and that is all misinformation?

So Revision Committee, which is it?
The details of the clubs guidelines are in the bylaws it's unfortunate you are being obtuse over that fact.

But you cannot change the Bylaws unless the changes are consistent with the constitution.

Revising the constitution FIRST allows for significant changes in the Bylaws to allow for the kind of governance we want to see changed.

If you looked at it as a book the constitution is the table of contents and the bylaws the chapters?

It is a settled issue that regions will be reduced, that was announced at the mid winters.

The number that is most discussed is 5, which is where the $17K saving are calculated.

What you should be discussing is how to have member input not only in the constitution, which the Denco idea will not give you, but member input in the bylaws.



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Old 05-27-2011, 08:31 AM   #1026
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Rick,

From what I've been told, it has been sent out for the Units to vote on. They doubt though, all the responses would be back in time for the Delegates meeting this year.
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Old 05-27-2011, 08:39 AM   #1027
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The GA Unit change removes direct voting, except for MALs. It retains the Delegates' meeting and gives that body the authority identified in the DenCo Amendment.

Our Unit received the DenCo Amendment and it is on our Agenda for September.
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Old 05-27-2011, 08:51 AM   #1028
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I fully understand and you know it

No Bob,

I fully know and understand, where things are controlled and by whom within the WBCCI Constitution and the WBCCI Bylaws, thus is the reason why I know you have been misleading people with the 17k savings that will be had if the membership passes the “New Constitution”.

At least another person had the honesty to admit the numbers of Regions were not defined in the New Constitution and anyone saying it was, was providing misinformation and misleading the membership, which I guess would be you!

And now you’re stating:

Revising the constitution FIRST allows for significant changes in the Bylaws to allow for the kind of governance we want to see changed.

The above statement along with others you have made would lead most to think by passing the New Constitution is going to allow the membership the ability to change the WBCCI “Bylaws”. You and I both know in its current form “IT DOES NOT”. So when you say these things here and at Unit business meeting you are very much “misleading” the membership on how they should vote. If the some of the proposed amendments are not included in the final version, the IBT still retains “FULL” control of the WBCCI “Bylaws” and you know it!

Just be open and honest about it and admit it, instead of playing word games with everyone that is misleading not only the membership, but the leadership as well.
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:04 AM   #1029
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The Metro NY amendment or one like it would need a majority vote to give member control of the bylaws.

Who would not vote for that?
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:18 AM   #1030
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Still can't admit it can you?

You know I'm right! Come on, I'll say it with you,

"Paul, you are correct, the New Constitution as written by the Revision Committee left all the power to created, change, delete the WBCCI "Bylaws" with the "IBT". We can only "hope" since the Revision Committee "made a mistake" in writing that area of the New Constitution, the membership at the Delegates meeting can amend it to give greater control to the membership. If that does not happen, "you are correct", all control remains with the "IBT" in regards to the WBCCI "Bylaws".

It's OK Bob, I know lots of men that cannot admit they are wrong about something. But I know you're enough of a man to do it, are you not?

I just wonder if the Revision Committee didn't get this so very important part right, where else are there problems?
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:19 AM   #1031
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Have any units actually received this amendment and voted on it?
What is the time table?

Haven't seen or heard anything about it from my unit and would like to know if it has been distributed and if we are being kept in the dark (again)
Rick,

The DenCo amendment package has been sent by first class mail to unit presidents. The date on Cindy Reed's cover letter is May 20, which I presume constitutes the official date of distribution. If the amendment is ratified by 2/3 of the units within one year of distribution to the unit presidents it is adopted. (Assuming the present Constitution survives until then.) Since it went out too late for most units' spring business meetings, I presume that they will vote on it this fall.
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:46 AM   #1032
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Originally Posted by Nuvite-F View Post
Rick,

The DenCo amendment package has been sent by first class mail to unit presidents. The date on Cindy Reed's cover letter is May 20, which I presume constitutes the official date of distribution. If the amendment is ratified by 2/3 of the units within one year of distribution to the unit presidents it is adopted. (Assuming the present Constitution survives until then.) Since it went out too late for most units' spring business meetings, I presume that they will vote on it this fall.
.

Is this package be posted anywhere? I would like a chance to read it with out waiting for the info on the unit level.
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:49 AM   #1033
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Is this package be posted anywhere? I would like a chance to read it with out waiting for the info on the unit level.
Thanks John,
No more than posted the request, checked my mail, and there it was
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Old 05-27-2011, 11:37 AM   #1034
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Originally Posted by rideair View Post
Why are we being told conflicting information about the number of Regions that will come from the New Constitution? One person is saying it will be reduced to 5 Regions saving the WBCCI about 17K a year, another person is saying “no where” has the number of Regions been defined and that is all misinformation?

So Revision Committee, which is it?

Has the Region Reduction wording been used here and at Unit meetings to make people think it’s going to happen, thus getting them to sign on?

Sounds like double talk to me! You got one guy telling one story to get people to sign on and another telling people something else to cover the Committee’s backside.

I’m sure the answer will be, well that’s part of the “Bylaws” which the New Constitution does nothing about that
The proposed revision Article XII, Sec. 1 is what is proposed and contains no mention of a number of Regions/Areas. The IBT has had discussions about changing the number of Regions, but all the revision does is establish the IBT as the organizer of Regions/Areas.

In fact the Bylaws would establish the procedure for how Regions/Areas would be created and or changed. You do not want to establish a number for Regions/Areas in the constitution because if conditions and/or demographics change you would have to have a constitutional amendment to increase or decrease the number.

Tom
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Old 05-27-2011, 01:14 PM   #1035
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Putting everything in to the Bylaws, without the Denco amendment, leaves everything up to the new reduced sized IBT which is dominated by the EC5. That allows the club to be more responsive but without oversight by the members. EC has always been dominated by: Military, law enforcement, and academia. Very few with marketing or business experience make it to the IBT or EC. The club seniority system favors those with early retirement and pensions. There is a broader experience base in the general membership and I feel the club would benefit, if they have a say in how things are run.
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Old 05-27-2011, 01:55 PM   #1036
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Bugdoc,

“Thank You” for your open and honest answer based on how the New Constitution is written. I’ve been trying to tell the very same thing to a member of the Revision Committee that has been going around provide misleading information on this subject to those here and at WBCCI Unit membership meetings in an effort to gather support for the New Constitution. This person keep's telling people it will save the club 17K dollars if they vote yes based on the reduction of Regions to the number of five which is clearly not in this document.

Either this member is purposely providing misinformation in an effort to mislead the membership or is uneducated on the very document that he was to have helped write!

I ask to you try to educate this individual for they will not listen to anyone here about this subject and in an effort to stop them from continuing to mislead and misinform the membership of the WBCCI

Again, THANK YOU!!
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