Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-26-2011, 11:12 AM   #995
Rivet Master
 
rideair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,223
Let me be clear!

Howie,

I think you have totally misunderstood my position on things through the years.

I fought “against” the “Name Change Issue” I was not for it. I wanted the club name to stay the WBCCI. So, I was not for change there.

I fought “against” the “MOHO Issue” I was not for it. I wanted the club to remain an “Airstream ONLY” club. So, I was not for change there.

Not sure where you’re getting all this “You fought for change and now when you have the chance you are against it” stuff.

I have fought “against” change in the club almost since day one!

The thing I wanted was for the club to “loosen up” a bit, which the New Constitution does not address.

I have never had a real problem with the current WBCCI Constitution, could it be tweaked, “yes”. Do I think MAL’s should have the right to vote? “YES” and that can be done with a “simple” change to the current WBCCI Constitution. It does not take a “total re-write”.

I’ve never thought DMV (Direct Member Voting) was a good idea, I was never even for 1M1V the way you guys are trying to do it. Last I checked, if you are a member of a Unit, you get to vote once! Correct me, if that is not correct.

Do I think the IBT/EC7 should stop spending $$$$ for travel that is not required and for white tux parties? Sure do, that is covered in the WBCCI “Bylaws” not the Constitution. The IBT/EC7 has the power to change that today, if they wish! All the Forrest Amendment does is gives the power to the membership to hold their feet to the fire to make sure they do, which I am in “FAVOR”.

Let me spell it out so you, Bob and everyone else will be clear on where I stand.

Trash the “New Constitution” to many problems with it and is to far off track to even be fixed, amend the “Current WBCCI Constitution” giving MAL’s the right to vote and add the Forrest Amendment and you're done!

Wow, “TWO” simple changes. Two “simple” changes that most people would agree is the “right” thing to do anyway. Let’s see, every member can vote and if need be checks and balance to the clubs spending, hard not to agree with that!

Look at it this way, with you voting “Yes” and me voting “No” it’s like we never got to vote in the first place. Now we both know how the MAL’s have felt for a long time. I’ve always thought they should have the right to vote which is why I pushed them to join the WDCU for one dollar and even at the time willing to paying the Unit dues regardless if all 600+ did so.

I guess when it comes to the WBCCI, I'll have to treat it the way I do my wife and know there will be times she/it just "misunderstood" what I said though it was written in black and white.
__________________

__________________
Paul Waddell
rideair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2011, 11:18 AM   #996
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,814
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by eubank View Post
You know, Howie, one good thing about life here at the park is that we get to talk face-to-face with other members of the club often enough. And yesterday I was talking to a couple of other members about this. And we agreed: With the addition of Forrest's amendment, the old constitution is superior to the proposed new one. Hence our votes.

Lynn
Lynn

I talked several times to Forrest, early on, and worked quite hard to have the thrust of his amendment directly incorporated in the Revision. However if you read article 18 sec 2 and include the Metro NY, to be proposed amendment, the insertion of the word BYLAWS after the word Constitution I think the membership will have even the more power.
__________________

__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2011, 11:20 AM   #997
Rivet Master
 
rideair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,223
"As of now from what I understand thru the grapevine, there are probably about 20+ amendments that will be discussed."

Let's see, 20+ amendments to fix the "New Constitution"???

The "current" WBCCI Constitution could be fixed in "TWO"

Are you guys nuts????
__________________
Paul Waddell
rideair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2011, 11:27 AM   #998
Rivet Master
 
1977 31' Sovereign
1963 26' Overlander
1989 34' Excella
Johnsburg , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,941
To make things a little less hectic at Du Quoin, I would propose that those units that have amendments they would like to see incorporated in the "New Constitution", to make it more acceptable, publish those amendments here and on your websites or give them to your Region President for distribution. We live in the Electronic Communications Era. Let's use it.
__________________
dwightdi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2011, 11:40 AM   #999
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by rideair View Post

Do I think the IBT/EC7 should stop spending $$$$ for travel


If that were true you would welcome the $17,000 travel saving, but you want to continue that spend, why


Quote:
Sure do, that is covered in the WBCCI “Bylaws” not the Constitution. The IBT/EC7 has the power to change that today, if they wish! All the Forrest Amendment does is gives the power to the membership [ only to the constitution] to hold their feet to the fire to make sure they do, which I am in “FAVOR”.
How does that amendment address the bylaws?





Quote:
I’ve always thought they should have the right to vote which is why I pushed them to join the WDCU for one dollar and even at the time willing to paying the Unit dues regardless if all 600+ did so.
Bottom line it was a great idea, but 600 folks didn't put up a buck they spent 25 not to do it, why?

Wdcu has about 80 members not 680, so there's more to the Mal issue, I think Don McKevey is closest to that issue.
They just don't want to be involved with any unit for a variety of reasons, I think one of the big ones is caravans.
__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2011, 11:49 AM   #1000
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwightdi View Post
To make things a little less hectic at Du Quoin, I would propose that those units that have amendments they would like to see incorporated in the "New Constitution", to make it more acceptable, publish those amendments here and on your websites or give them to your Region President for distribution. We live in the Electronic Communications Era. Let's use it.
Good idea, for those of us here but the fact is 2400 of 6000 no email, they don't ever hear "you got mail"

how many don't have unit websites or if they do when was it last updated.

Region presidents, we saw the way a few miss handled the dissemination of the revision.

there are unit presidents without email, that's a fact!


I'm with you, just telling you what I see perhaps you can tell us what the new ECC is planning on doing about this or Damian can chime in?



.
__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2011, 11:50 AM   #1001
Rivet Master
 
RickDavis's Avatar

 
1961 24' Tradewind
1969 29' Ambassador
1970 21' Globetrotter
Jamestown , Tennessee
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,781
Quote:
Originally Posted by rideair View Post
"


The "current" WBCCI Constitution could be fixed in "TWO"
There is one at least one more major fix needed. May be a bylaws situation rather than constitution.

No body seems too concerned about the code of ethic and the grievance committee these days.

The use of that bludgeon could re-appear at any moment if we become complacent
__________________
Rick Davis 1602 K8DOC
61 tradewind, plus a few others
13 Ram 2500 TD
99 Dodge TD 577K miles

RickDavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2011, 11:54 AM   #1002
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by rideair View Post
"As of now from what I understand thru the grapevine, there are probably about 20+ amendments that will be discussed."

Let's see, 20+ amendments to fix the "New Constitution"???

The "current" WBCCI Constitution could be fixed in "TWO"
But in ten years tell me why you never proposed those "TWO" amendments?



.
__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2011, 12:02 PM   #1003
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickDavis View Post
There is one at least one more major fix needed. May be a bylaws situation rather than constitution.

No body seems too concerned about the code of ethic and the grievance committee these days.
Lynn thinks those parts are superior in the current version?????



Quote:
Originally Posted by eubank View Post
With the addition of Forrest's amendment, the old constitution is superior to the proposed new one. Hence our votes.


Lynn
add to the code of ethic and the grievance committee issues what is superior about spending an extra $17,000 on travel with a big IBT?

How long or impossible is it to amend the constitution

Where do the members have the right to amend the BYLAWS


.
__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2011, 01:30 PM   #1004
Rivet Master
 
Coloradobus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 784
But in ten years tell me why you never proposed those "TWO" amendments?

Oh come on, come out from under the either! With a track record of trashing Forrest's motion at Mid Winter, do you really think THEY (EC-7) would allow mere members to get a foothold to IBT power, change Bylaws, I don't think so. So whatever Paul or others would have, could have, put out there as an amendment in the past, like Forrest' motion this year, would not be allowed to fly. Please relisten to the entire score from Robstown, the message is very clear. Look how long it has taken for Forrest's motion to get the "clearance" to be sent out for club-wide review, it took the membership to cry out "foul."

And look how sneeky in the Revision Article One wants to insert Airstream RV Association. Just because its used on the club stationary doesn't make it right. If anything, it leaves ambuguity. The only sensible insertion into Revised Article One is to use the words, Airstream RV Club. That is more to the point than using the word 'Association." And won't allow for any deviation.
__________________
JIM n CHRIS
"62 ATW Overlander, '51 Flying Cloud
'67 GT, '90 Squarestream 29ft, 06 Bambi, Bigfoot slide in/GMC Denali K2500, Marathon Coach, Class A.
Coloradobus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2011, 01:40 PM   #1005
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
The point is how can you be satisfied with that Constitution and that process?

Even if denco unit passed to day how are you going to change the bylaws?

What makes you think the denco will not hit the same brick wall when you try and use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloradobus View Post
The only sensible insertion into Revised Article One is to use the words, Airstream RV Club. That is more to the point than using the word 'Association." And won't allow for any deviation.
Ok, propose that amendment I imagine it will pass, I wouldn't oppose it.


.
__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2011, 02:03 PM   #1006
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,814
Images: 12
Chris

Are you trying to excuse all those that did nothing for years, but complaint about the management of the WBCCI, just because once someone did stand up and hit a roadblock. Does a resent failure really excuse all those that did nothing before?

You would have made one hell of a combat commander.




.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2011, 02:17 PM   #1007
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,842
From the few voting results posted here, early returns indicate the amendments are not going to pass. Of, course, things can change. If I were proposing this, I'd be thinking about "what next?" I'd be thinking about withdrawing them and getting back to work on something that would pass next year. For those who want real change, also "what next?" applies. How do you get all new leaders?

And thanks to Joe for his compliment several days ago. After the first sentence, however, you misread my comments—they were about how leadership "appears". Reputation is everything and once lost is hard to get back. The leaders don't look good and 1,000+ members not renewing affirms that. Those of us—many, many thousands—don't want to join a club that appears characterized by internecine warfare. Maybe it can all change and maybe the club will be reinvigorated and maybe I'll join then, but what are the chances of that? Meanwhile the internet has changed everything and people can go to rallies, make friends and go on caravans this way. Radical change brought by the internet can only be met by radical change in the WBCCI and fighting over the constitution and bylaws instead of a complete new start brought by new leadership can do so. Changing the constitution may bring some change in leaders over time, but is there enough time? Has the train left the station? Good luck, but you have a very difficult time ahead.

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2011, 02:21 PM   #1008
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,814
Images: 12
Five years ago I suggested to the then President of the WDCU unit that someone should start talks with Thor Corp as to the succession of WBCCI after the then current leadership would succeed in the trashing of the Club.

That unit was sizable, I believe 140 strong at that point and growing, and well behind the unit President. The unit was recognition through out the WBCCI as one that stood for change and the curtailment of the excesses that were leading the Club to financial ruin. Nothing of that magnitude was started let alone 2 amendments proposed.

Now we can set here and discuss the use of the word Association, given that it meets a legal requirement under Ohio State Law, or we can get down to real business and fix this mess.
__________________

__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
constitution, wbcci


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.