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Old 05-24-2011, 08:18 PM   #967
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Originally Posted by Nuvite-F View Post

In the May Blue Beret, the membership chairman reports that 1,302 members declined to renew their memberships last year, of whom 226 have subsequently renewed.
Heaven help the WBCCI.
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Oh but the 226 that renewed were quality members. Did you forget?
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Old 05-25-2011, 07:08 AM   #968
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Cool I must be one!

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Oh but the 226 that renewed were quality members. Did you forget?
Thanks man, I was one of those!
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Old 05-25-2011, 08:28 AM   #969
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Originally Posted by mbmbstreamer View Post
As I mentioned previously, my unit voted unanimously for me to express their intent with THEIR votes. I believe I am obligated to do so.

The committee that developed the change had a very difficult task. Just because we want to alter it, doesn't mean we aren't appreciative of the committee and the IP for all their hard work.

I hope posting here will help communicate our change. I have asked for guidance from Jackson Center on the method of submittal. I hope to have it in a form which can be accepted and approved.
I have several questions, one is can I switch out my unit in time to get a vote for the International from an active unit and secondly would my one vote even matter added to a unit that is already in majority? What I mean by that is akin to something Dwight said previously about the delegates vote. If the delegates vote is yea or nay each delegate present gets one vote and each unit delegate's power is equal to all other delegate's and does not reflect the unit and members' vote proportionately or in totality of general membership. Now do the committee members get a vote? I would think a committee member might have to recuse his or her self from being a unit delegate or actively participating in the delegates meeting in this particular situation, with the singular exception of the parlimentarian for review. Also, is there any advantage for me to change units to register my voice regarding the revision constitution in actuality?
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Old 05-25-2011, 09:16 AM   #970
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DMV (Direct Member Voting) will REDUCE the number of actual votes cast on any issue, any election, by as much as 80%. Can you say EC5 RULES?!
While direct member voting will reduce the number of actual votes cast it will eliminate all the "assigned" votes that should not count any way. I don't see that it would change any results as proportional voting just inflates the vote count either way.

If some one doesn't care enough to vote it shouldn't count.

While I am not overly enthusiastic about the caucus idea I have little faith that the all the delegates are representing the membership .

According to friends in the FMCA they use direct voting to elect their officers. What is not clear is if they have multiple candidates
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Old 05-25-2011, 09:58 AM   #971
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Carol,

The anwer to your question is "maybe". The year I was Prez of the WDCU, I allowed people to vote up until June 1, which was the last a day a person could become a member of that current voting year per the WBCCI and allowed many MAL's and others to switch their membership over to the WDCU giving them a chance to vote. To change units, there is a process of which WBCCI HQ will need to be contacted and can help with that process.

Based on what I've said, I would not rush out to change over the the WDCU without first checking with that Units leadership first. So far, I've not seen any email, newsletter, etc... explaining how we are to even vote on this issue (it could have hit the junkmail box for all I know). Good luck finding a Unit to cast your vote. If you find out anything about the voting within the WDCU, let me know.

I'm sure there's got to be a rule/process in the Robert's Rule book about this, though I don't know the page number?

For a club that wants less rules, the Revision Committee sure does use them a lot.
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Old 05-25-2011, 10:31 AM   #972
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Folks if the delegates complete the amendments and postpone the final vote until the bylaws are done with the final 2/3 vote in '12,

the result is the units proportional voting will not come into play, each delegate has one vote on any amendments and or articles.

A majority will carry

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While direct member voting will reduce the number of actual votes cast
there has been no supporting evidence of such reduction.
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Old 05-25-2011, 10:42 AM   #973
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Originally Posted by LI Pets
Folks if the delegates complete the amendments and postpone the final vote until the bylaws are done with the final 2/3 vote in '12.

Then the units proportional voting will not come into play, each delegate has one vote on any amendments and or articles.

A majority will carry
Not true.

The Constitution is not changed until 2/3 of the membership votes (cast by delegates under the current system) approve that change.

The delegates could chose to write and approve an "implementing Article" or proviso that requires approval of the initial Bylaws by the delegates.

Of course the Delegates could also change the document to require member approval of ALL Bylaw changes...but that would not work.
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Old 05-25-2011, 10:49 AM   #974
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Matt, I didn't say the constitution would be changed, what would be accomplished if we did it that way is the Revision Committee would be able to complete a set of bylaws based on those amendments in '12.
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Old 05-25-2011, 11:21 AM   #975
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Maybe if we are all lucky, the New Constitution will be voted down, period.

From there, Barry H. (New WBCCI IP) will disband the Revision Committee never to be seen or heard from again, the "Forrest Amendment" will be passed to give oversight of the Bylaws to the membership and the leaders of this club will give everything a break for a few years and make the needed changes to create a friendly place for all owners of "Airstream" product to enjoy.

One has to admit, more and more Airstream owners are finding a lot more Fun, Fellowship and Adventure "outside" of the WBCCI. If one just looks at the number of events this year outside of the WBCCI on the east coast alone (Caravans, Rallies, Boondocking outings, etc..) there's more than enough to fill a year of Airstream Adventure!
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Old 05-25-2011, 01:47 PM   #976
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Dwight, is this in jest or is this really happening?

Has this committee been given funds to reimburse it's members for travel and nights in campgrounds, to sell this shipment of smelly fish?

__
The members of the committee are not paid nor are they shills for the EC. Our time has been donated as well as any trips or meetings we have attended or phone bills generated, etc.

I am sorry that can not refrain from using inuendo and misinformation to try and sell your point of view.

Tom
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Old 05-25-2011, 02:58 PM   #977
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Oh that one takes the cake -- I nominate this one for the official funny of the day!

The EC7 tries to push its agenda through by peppering the delegate pool with their most vocal supporters. I expect that beyond the 3 committee members holding delegate seats that there will be many others in that delegate pool doing their bidding. There's a LOT at stake here:__
What fact can you provide to substantiate this statement? Is it just innuendo?

Quote:
  • DMV (Direct Member Voting) will REDUCE the number of actual votes cast on any issue, any election, by as much as 80%. Can you say EC5 RULES?!
Let me see - A unit has 100 members and 10 show up to a business meeting. 7 members vote yes on an issue, 3 members vote no. Delegate goes to the Delegates meeting and votes 70 votes for the issue and 30 votes against. So in reality 10 people have decided the votes for 90.
If the total membership were provided an opportunity the vote the actual vote could be significantly different. Yes, some units do provide an opportunity for all of their membership to vote, but many only use the business meeting vote only to establish the vote for the Delegate meeting. Then again, we also have the situation where there is no certification of the votes cast by the Delegate.

Quote:
[*]The promise of an IBT with an Executive Committee at 5 and Region Presidents at 5 clearly gives the EC MORE power than they've ever had before.
There is nothing in the revision that establishes the number of Regions and if the author can provide an approved version of the revision document stating this I am sure the committee would like to see it. Is this just more case of innuendo and misinformation?

Quote:
[*]By eliminating the delegates, the legislative system becomes totally crippled. What percent of the membership will decide what changes get made in the future? 51% of what, total membership or just those few hundred voting? Woo hoo! Can you say EC5 Mob Mentality?
I think it would be fair to ask the same question about the present uncertified system of voting WBCCI uses.

Quote:
[*]By eliminating the International Rally requirement, the IBT will get to hold ALL of its meetings outside the purview of the membership. How nice is that! Yes, yes -- the EC5 RULES!
Again innuendo, the International Rally has not been eliminated it simply has been removed from the constitution where it did not belong to begin with.

Quote:
Recuse oneself -- that's just too funny!
Using your logic any congressman who introduces a bill and any others who have signed on to support the bill would have to refuse to vote on the bill when it came up for vote.

Tom
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Old 05-25-2011, 03:00 PM   #978
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The members of the committee are not paid nor are they shills for the EC. Our time has been donated as well as any trips or meetings we have attended or phone bills generated, etc.


Tom
Tom.
Thanks for the clarification on that. We had one of the committee members at the TN state rally and he did provide a lot of helpful information.
I had wondered about reimbursement since he was a long way from home, but didn't ask. Was afraid of what the answer would be.
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Old 05-25-2011, 03:43 PM   #979
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Using your logic any congressman who introduces a bill and any others who have signed on to support the bill would have to refuse to vote on the bill when it came up for vote.

Tom
That would be my logic Bugdoc not Leo's. I believe the IP and his special committees once their reports are made to him, should allow the delegates the latitude to conduct themselves at their own business meeting on their own volition and according to their own framework as they would see fitm to proceed. It has no basis upon the United States Government or any knowlege of precedent only my own personal opinion that the next delegates meeting could be swayed by committee members exercising official capacity as a committee member with greater authority than others present and unit members no longer able to give instructions for their delegate representation. In my opinion the committees job ends with the report that should have been complete at the midwinter and turned back over to the IP who requested the information. Traditionally the meeting has been led and presided over by the IP which I also believe is a conflict of interest and negates the separation of branches and checks and balances within the WBCCI. Again this is based on my opinion and what I would like to see worked for within the club REGARDLESS of precedent. I just think it would be the fair thing to do. If the committee's report has enough merit to stand on its own it wouldn't require an extra volley at the time of elections.
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Old 05-25-2011, 04:12 PM   #980
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Carol,

The anwer to your question is "maybe". The year I was Prez of the WDCU, I allowed people to vote up until June 1, which was the last a day a person could become a member of that current voting year per the WBCCI and allowed many MAL's and others to switch their membership over to the WDCU giving them a chance to vote. To change units, there is a process of which WBCCI HQ will need to be contacted and can help with that process.

Based on what I've said, I would not rush out to change over the the WDCU without first checking with that Units leadership first. So far, I've not seen any email, newsletter, etc... explaining how we are to even vote on this issue (it could have hit the junkmail box for all I know). Good luck finding a Unit to cast your vote. If you find out anything about the voting within the WDCU, let me know.

I'm sure there's got to be a rule/process in the Robert's Rule book about this, though I don't know the page number?

For a club that wants less rules, the Revision Committee sure does use them a lot.
Thanks Paul. It is very difficult as well you know to even follow along with WBCCI business, but harder still to act upon the "textbook" responsibilities and entitlements of membership which are not realistically available or applicable to general members across the scope of WBCCI. Yet the constant of higher dues and esculating amounts remain in all cases true. Still waiting for our tea party rally, or is that the official Birthday Bash Rally, now successful in its second year?!!
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