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Old 05-02-2011, 09:01 AM   #799
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Bob,

EC1, EC5, EC7, EC20 EC100

Does it really matter what the number is if they still hold all the power. In a dictatorship there's only one guy, but he still holds all the power!

You could have 24 IBT guys, and a Exec. Comm. of 100 if none of them are getting $$$ to travel who cares.

How about this, leave everything the way it is, take away all dollars for traveling from the IBT/EC7-EC5 and any travel dealing with the International Rally has to come out of the International pot? That would save you far more than you have with a total re-write of the Constitution!
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:23 AM   #800
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Why not just cancel the international rally? No more money needed for travelling to promote it and no more lost money over doing it. Seems simple!
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:42 AM   #801
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Doug,

You guys from Canada always seem to have the best ideas.
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Old 05-02-2011, 03:17 PM   #802
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Howie,

The most recent posting on the forum you referenced is April 6, 2011. When will this additional information be posted?

Bill

Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
I am please to comment that I spoke at a local unit rally this weekend giving a brief history of the Revised Constitution and an outline of the key points it presents.

My pleasure comes from the fact that while the members of that unit have not been regular posters on this subject they have as a group seen through the array of misinformation frequently posted here by none and or disenfranchised members.

There is hope for the WBCCI as long as the membership is not swayed but such misinformation.

Those members who wish additional information on this subject without the injection of misleading comments can sign on as a member to vbulletin.covvo.com , thread Revision.

The Revision Committee members stand ready to respond to any members questions or comments made to that site.



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Old 05-02-2011, 03:33 PM   #803
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Bill, you will see them this week.
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Old 05-02-2011, 05:08 PM   #804
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Stop the Misinformation

Howie,

I’m with you about all the misinformation being posted here on the forums. Is there anyway we can get some of the members of the Revision Committee to stop doing this on the forums?

And now I hear they have moved on to visiting Units doing the same thing!

Sad, just sad.
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Old 05-02-2011, 05:34 PM   #805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rideair View Post
Howie,

I’m with you about all the misinformation being posted here on the forums. Is there anyway we can get some of the members of the Revision Committee to stop doing this on the forums?

And now I hear they have moved on to visiting Units doing the same thing!

Sad, just sad.
Paul

As I mentioned above the unit I spoke at had already come to the conclusion that most of the info posted here was misleading. The difference was they were referring to the information that you and those posting with you had been posting and commented as such before I spoke.

I received no objectionable questions during or after my talk and in fact received several comments of thanks afterwards.

You repeatedly comment that ALL POWER will remain in the hands of the IBT. Please consider the Metro NY amendment as passing before you state that again.

Another who has for years campaigned for 1m1v is now saying that is not the way to go. What changed? Just because it is not now his idea should not change the effectiveness of that privilege.

Another who wished to be nominated from the floor seams to miss the fact that the new Constitution clearly makes way for ANYONE to nominate before the publication of candidates in the BB with those so nominated having full access to space in the BB. And those nominated from the floor will be on the ballot but admittedly with a difficult and short campaign

Overlooking or just plain omitting these points while they are available for others to read may be the reason members are not accepting your arguments.

Oh by the way this Revision Committee was not formed by the IBT. A frequently mentioned point of misinformation. It was formed by the IP.

The comments from the Constitution Chairman are in themselves misleading in that he only asked for the Committee to be increased to 3 members on the first of March and then never included them in any discussions and the referring to THE CONSTITUTIONAL COMMITTEE in his report while not providing the signatures of those recently named to that Committee.

If you read the Constitution the Constitution Committee has the responsibility to review amendments and amendments only. That Committee whether 1 or 3 members could at best offer an opinion as a member or members and not a recommendation as a standing Committee.


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Old 05-02-2011, 05:51 PM   #806
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Howie,

I “NEVER” was behind 1M1V. I was behind giving “MAL’s” the right to vote which are two “VERY” different things.

It is this committee that has combined the two.

So by you going out and saying that I was behind 1M1V is a FLAT OUT LIE!!!!

Please stop the LIES!!!!!

You are the one putting out “misinformation”.

As for the “Bylaws”, I have one question for you, Bob or the man on the moon.

“IF” in the process of voting for the New Constitution the “Metro NY Amendment” IS NOT passed to be included, who will control the “BYLAWS”??

Who will have control under it’s current form?

Can you guarantee me “100%” the Metro NY Amendment will be included in the final vote?
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Old 05-02-2011, 07:18 PM   #807
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Sorry if my writing was a bit unclear. If you had read this statement in the first paragraph (The difference was they were referring to the information that you and those posting with you) you might have realized I was referring to others with the use of the word "Another"

I will try to be more explicit in the use of my vague references.

I can't guarantee anything. I can only hope reasonable people will see and grasp the potential. This Revised Constitution presents the membership with a vehicle to change what many have been questioning for years. If it fails we can always fall back on your idea of asking the IBT to change their spots.


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Old 05-03-2011, 05:18 AM   #808
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Virtually every Article and Section has been changed in some manner – from editorial changes to complete rewrites. The following are some of the highlights:


· We have gone back to our club roots and replaced the Code of Ethics with a Standard of Conduct that is positive, that further enshrines the Fun, Fellowship and Adventure of WBCCI.

Eliminating the grievance committee


· The proposal is based on a leaner WBCCI structure, with a smaller Executive Committee and a smaller regional structure resulting in a smaller IBT. Saving about $20,000 in travel expenses.


· We are shortening the term of office for region officers and lengthening the term for the International Treasurer and Recording Secretary, for purposes of continuity.

· We are proposing to use direct member voting for election of officers and for future amendments to our Constitution while retaining a deliberative forum for discussing key issues.


· We are giving greater flexibility in setting dates for the International Rally and, since with direct member voting there will be no Delegates, we will have fewer meetings at the rally, allowing more opportunity for Fun, Fellowship and Adventure.


· We are proposing that MALs be given more rights within the Club, such as the right to vote and hold office in Intra-Clubs and at the International level.


· There is a simplified and streamlined process for any future amendments to the Constitution and Standard of Conduct that will be the same for all, no matter where the proposed amendment originates.


· One thing that is new is that WBCCI will be able to use electronic means to do any and all of its business, as may be appropriate.


Our current Constitution doesn’t allow that,this is a new way for the club to conduct its affairs.


This proposed constitution truly is a new document and a new way for WBCCI to conduct its affairs.


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Old 05-04-2011, 09:04 PM   #809
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Many might have thought that the inclusion of the PIP & CBL chair’s letter among the six documents was interesting reading, if not persuasive.

1. Did the IP infringe upon or usurp the CBL chairman’s rights by appointing the special bylaws and constitution committee? Doesn’t Don S have a valid complaint?

2. Does the absence of a rebuttal or challenge to refute the statements in Don’s letter by any club official demonstrated their acquiescence? Where do they stand? Or are their opposing faction within the hierarchy?

3. Why is the club’s hierarchy silent? Why aren’t more involved to the extent of trying to mediate or help resolve the issues? Have they been told to maintain a low profile? The Membership Chairman is one of the few speaking out and doing an outstanding job of promoting fun and fellowship.

4. The IP’s letter in this month’s BB makes no mention of the constitution revision and that important “caucus’ meeting which he will chair. Does his silence on the CBL chairman’s letter mean acquiescence, that is, that he is in agreement with Don S. and will be honor bound to uphold the current constitution? I recall that prior to the mid-winter meeting the IP said he was honor bound to follow the constitution. The current constitution and the bylaws are still in effect until they get changed according to the rules.
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:41 AM   #810
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Bob, you said on the 1M1V thread


Quote:
I'll speak to the CBL question, in word NO, his report did NOT contain recommendations per se, they were his personal opinions, only opinions, not based on facts..

But, in Don S. letter about the New Constitution he writes:

"It is to be noted that instead of a “blue ribbon” committee of knowledgeable and experienced members from a cross section of our organization to develop a new Constitution that meets the Ohio Code and the wishes and desires of our entire membership, the committee who developed this document represented primarily only a small segment of the interests of our membership. In fact, since there were no members of the Constitution and Bylaws Committee on this committee, it was in violation of Bylaws Article III, Section 8, and Robert’s Rules of Order (10th edition, page 474, lines 28 through 30) from the beginning: “A special committee may not be appointed to perform a task that falls within the assigned function of an existing standing committee”. This task was not an emergency requiring minimum time and bypassing the wishes and input of the entire membership. This violation was reported at the July 5, 2010 IBT Meeting when the forming committee for this new Constitution was originated, but was not heeded."



This really does not sound like "his opinion".

Sounds like the whole thing should become a dead issue based on the "facts" stated above in Don S. report or someone need's to file a "Grievance" against this guy for lying about the current IP and Revision Committee.

So, if the very committee that was formed to re-write the Constitution was not done following the Constitution, how can anything they do be taken seriously and be voted on by the membership?

Maybe a delegate needs to point this out at the delegates meeting and call for this whole thing to be removed from the agenda, not voted on and thrown onto the scrap pile of past tried WBCCI changes that has come down from "Special Committees" like the "Name Change" and "MOHO" issue.

It appears someone did not follow the rules and this thing should be shutdown now.
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Old 05-05-2011, 06:45 AM   #811
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Yes it's his opinion, "assigned function of an existing standing committee"

The assigned duties of that committee only referrer to amendments, this was a Revision not an amendment.

Big differenceand not an assigned functionwhich is why when his objected was raised back in July it was over ruled.It should be noted that Don S. is not a certified parliamentarian as is Dona G.The entire letter screams sour grapes perhaps revenge for what may be in his mind his right, but was not.

Assuming arguendo for a moment do you think based on his writing here and looking at the Denco report of his that a NEW set of bylaws would have come forth.

He wants the grievance committee, he like the bylaws they way they are I think the EC recognized that which is why he was not asked to participate, he exemplifies the "old school" thinking they wanted to change.

How is it within his duties to question Ohio law, he's not a lawyer is he?
How is it that his letter was dated 3-18 referring to open questions about those Ohio laws when the clubs lawyer found the Revision in compliance with the law on 3-11, which he had.

Did he ignore the legal opinion, did he forget, did he really write it before 3-11 and just date it when it needed to go to HQ on the 18th?

Just who are the “blue ribbon” members in this club?elitism the attitude that government should be by those who consider themselves superior to others by virtue of intelligence, social status, or greater accomplishment.The belief or practice that government should be by a self-appointed group who consider themselves superior to those governed by virtue of their higher birth.

Ok, Paul kick step behind him!

You said you read the Revision 10+ times, perhaps you need to take an
un-bias read of Don's last two opinions.


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Old 05-05-2011, 07:28 AM   #812
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"Ok, Paul kick step behind him!

You said you read the Revision 10+ times, perhaps you need to take an
un-bias read of Don's last two opinions."

No, I will not "kick step" behind him and his views, nor will I "kick step" behind you and your views.

I would rather take a true "un-bias" look at the subject and make up my own mind on what I think is best. There are a few left in life that know "how" to think instead of being told "what" to think.

There are parts of the New Constitution I do "agree" with. Cutting the number of Regions/areas down, getting rid of the 3rdVP, I think is a good idea. The rest for me, I don't agree with.

I don't agree with the "Member Caucus", date changes for International, the way 1M1V is being done, going from Regions to Areas, getting rid of the delegates, etc...
For me, there's just not enough good stuff to even work with in an amendment process before the vote. But that's me. I'm not asking you to agree with me, nor will I be able to change your view. Not saying I'm right, your wrong, I just think in the end the changes that you and the committee came up with will do more harm than good and there are problems with it as written that are to many to fix in a single Delegates meeting for 1,2,3 days.

It appears there have been problems with the whole process since the day the committee was created as pointed out by Don.S. Again, not saying he's right, but he has a very good point that many would agree with and say there are hairs being split when someone say's it's a "Revision" not an "Amendment" thus not needing the CBL as part of it. There still plenty of areas in the New Constitution that are "word for word" like the current one. If you were to try and say this is a "new" body of work in the real word, claim it as your own, you would be faced with a copyright" lawsuit and you would loose in court saying it was a "Revision" and did not need the OK of the owner.
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