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Old 04-30-2011, 03:11 PM   #785
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Bob,

Where is the balance?

Bill

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Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
Yes it's already in the revision with $20,000 saving to boot.
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Old 04-30-2011, 04:38 PM   #786
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Bill,

the EC will have 5 votes, PIP no vote, eliminate 3rdVP.

The regions will be consolidated to possibly 5 to 7
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Old 04-30-2011, 06:02 PM   #787
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There was a request to get the new proposed constitution out of the VAC Leaving the WBCCI thread...

This thing has devolved into a cruel joke.

The membership is expected to give up its current delegate system and have it replaced with a 'member's caucus.'

Unit Leaders: DON'T DO IT!

You currently have a system where YOUR unit is represented as an EQUAL in the deliberation of proposed amendments to club operations.

This committee has proposed that your FAIR and EQUAL representation system be TRASHED and replaced by MOB Home Crowd mentality. That's right -- those that would normally go to an International will determine what will and won't happen in the way of amendments. That will keep the club exactly where it has been -- spiraling to dissolution.

The DELEGATES system WORKS and more importantly is FAIR! It is handicapped in only TWO major areas:

1) It is ruled over and overly restricted by the EC7, the IP in particular. There is NO OPEN SESSION where DELEGATES can express their wants and desires amongst one another, where they can WORK TOGETHER to make the changes that the EC7 & IBT have simply been unable or unwilling to do. AN EASY IMPROVEMENT!

2) The current system requires that DELEGATES vote on amendments AT the Delegates Meeting. Take their votes away! Let them craft legislation in a FAIR system where each unit has but one voice and CHANGE the system so that items of importance are sent back home to the membership for a final decision. ANOTHER EASY IMPROVEMENT!

Besides, the belief that there is no one more capable to run that meeting than the IP is purely naive. Can ANYONE name a single recent IP that the Parliamentarian didn't have to hold hands with in order to get through a business meeting?

What's really ironic here is that this committee is trying to do away with the DELIBERATIVE NATURE of the club, members meeting face to face ANNUALLY at the only time and location that makes any sense at all -- at a REQUIRED International Rally whose date and location is known nearly TWO YEARS IN ADVANCE for WHAT?

What's wrong with having an International Rally? Nothing -- ever see a picture of rigs dry camping in a field with gofer holes? What's gone wrong with the International Rally is that feckless leadership has stepped up the requirements to attend.

Back in the day plumbing was a good idea for those that needed it, so was electrical, but NOW the International REQUIRES 3 point hook-ups (cha-ching). No more 3amp (or electric only) section, no more generator section. It's all part of the Jimmy F. "Quality over Quantity" program and it's alive and well in Gold Row (or is it Royal Blue these days?).

What are self-evident improvements in any of these proposed changes and was an all new constitution necessary? Delegates Meetings dissolved into a Members Caucus, Regions transformed into Areas -- where are the MEMBER VALUE ADDED IMPROVEMENTS in any of this?

The whole Code of Ethics rewrite is merely WORDPLAY. How does this re-write improve anything? Will members be kept from being tossed out when they call feckless rulers, feckless? It's all H.S. folks, you're all being sold a bill of goods and the justification for this folly is that if you pass this, THEN they'll show you the NEW set of bylaws that they first re-wrote (or attempted to).

Are 2/3rds of the units in this club that stupid?

DON'T MAKE CHANGES -- ONLY IMPROVEMENTS

Unfortunately the majority of the proposed CHANGES here improve little and it's not worth a single one of them if trashing the current constitution is the only way to do it...

How ironic is it that a committee that wants to see a future where there is NO face to face deliberative society is now ACTIVELY OUT CAMPAIGNING AT OTHER UNIT'S RALLIES trying to sell this FARCE?

Is that how your future will have to work? If your unit wants something to pass you'll be sending your units membership to the four corners of North America to try and SELL something to other units?

The DELEGATES MEETING IS CURRENTLY CRIPPLED by an EC7, an IP imposed CLOSED SESSION that works on an agenda and NOTHING ELSE. It cripples the voice of the membership by allowing DELEGATES to vote on final proposed amendments instead of GOING BACK to their units to report to their members.

What about these 5 minimum AREAS vs an EC6? MORE BAD NEWS! For years Region Presidents have struggled for their membership, up against an EC7 that is responsible to NO ONE except to the Blue & Gold Gala crowd. The math was simple:

12RPs : 7EC

Now they expect you to approve 5RPs : 6EC? How does that empower the Regions, the membership to control what goes on here?

The only thing that's been proven here, no matter it be an EC7 SOB Motorhome Committee, an EC7 Electronic Communications Committee, or an EC7 Bylaws Review Committee is that folks get lost on their way to making VALUE ADDED MEMBERSHIP IMPROVEMENTS. They work in a small smoke filled room and get completely lost as to what needed to be acheived -- what needed to be accomplished. They completely blew this one.

You should NOT approve any single section of this new proposed amendment because the very core and direction taken by this effort is rotten at its core.

Amend the CURRENT Constitution giving members access to the bylaws so that the Delegates Meeting can be OPEN. So that the Grand North American Tours can come to an end.

Amend the CURRENT constitution so that elections are open, free and FAIR.

Amend the CURRENT constitution and remove the I3VP from the process and take away the votes of the Recording Secretary and 1st PIP at the same time!

Amend the CURRENT constitution to reduce REGIONS to six, reducing the EC7 to four.

LEAVE the International Rally alone -- it is mandatory no matter how simple it needs to become and RETAIN your DELEGATE!!!

The clubs problems are in the EC7 Controlled Bylaws -- crack that nut and the membership will determine who gets paid what and if that nose-in-the-air crowd no longer wants those positions, so be it...

These jobs can be done from HOME with the exception of attending an International Rally. The only thing these folks have been running around the country selling is the sad state of affairs they have put this club in!

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BRAVO LEO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To think it can all be just this easy. Let's remember that any change does not necessarily represent good change. Change for the sake of changing isn't the optimum. Change for the BETTER is what we are striving for and I think Leo is spot on in his post. Why on earth would you think a protectionistic Executive Committee and Past International Presidents would just defer to membership at this particular point in time and that the revision committee will lead us into the future? The current IP has allowed the committee to make its best case to the membership, fully knowing that the report does not have legs enough to stand. That was known before the committee even rendered its determination! That was of course the calculated result and the EC rests assurred that they will continue unencumbered with the "bones" they have thrown out in alleged good faith. Call me synical but I don't believe the characters and individuals involved have changed one iota for the better, all of a sudden now that the IP thought to make a special committee. I believe this is but another committee that was given busy work protecting the EC's privilege and standing. I think it is a monumental calculation and a great effort and effective stratagem on the collective minds and draw of the retired millitare and teaching communities stock piled in the WBCCI leadership. UNITS if you proceed to give up your representation and belly up because you think you have just been made a super deal then all I can say is adious amigos. Leadership loves a the passive membership. I however do not care to be manipulated or deceived for the benefit of a few elite or those seeking to aspire to the status of the elite and get in with that gravy train or stair march to success if "called" to the position by its predecessors.

There are those that label others that stand for members rights as naysayers and troublemakers even citing discussion as "toxic" and spewing self accolades of college degrees and meaningful occupation and openly sneering at sanitation engineers as having to watch out in that labeling, lest the "quality" people be offended by that overreach. Give me a break! Take your conceit and sense of entitlement back home and keep it to yourself. It is extremely poor taste as pompous goes...
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Old 04-30-2011, 07:14 PM   #788
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I understand once the new constitution is voted in THEN the by-laws will be revised.

Since the current by-laws are a problem what happens if the new constitution is not voted in, will there still be a by-laws revision??????
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Old 04-30-2011, 08:07 PM   #789
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No.
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Old 04-30-2011, 08:11 PM   #790
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Since the current by-laws are a problem what happens if the new constitution is not voted in, will there still be a by-laws revision??????
That's up to the IBT, who can amend the By Laws any time they want.
.
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Old 04-30-2011, 08:20 PM   #791
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Is this on their own or were asked?

Is the Revision Committee out on it's own doing this or is this coming from the WBCCI International President?

Either way, seems kinda fishy to me.




"Greetings Region Presidents,

I am writing to you as a Delegate to the WBCCI Delegates meeting in Du Quoin and as a member of the Constitution revision committee.

One of the main issues to be considered at the Du Quoin meeting will be a revision of the WBCCI Constitution. You have received from headquarters the Unit Presidents package containing a printed copy of the normal materials sent out prior to the meeting including 6 documents relating to the proposed revision. These documents present in detail the proposal, however, many people do not understand the process that will be used in deliberating or modifying the proposed revision. In addition there are many questions that people have presented regarding the proposal that have not been addressed.

Several members of the committee are offering their services to help you address any questions you or your members may have regarding the proposal. If you are having Unit meetings where the proposal will be discussed we may be willing to attend, if invited and you can give sufficient notice.
In lieu of that, a good speaker phone at a meeting would allow us to try and address any questions you or your members might have.
If your question will require research or consultation with the other members of the committee I will try and get back to you with a written response ASAP.

More importantly, you and your membership need to understand that as a part of the Delegates consideration of the revision any Article can be amended in the process and then, and only after all of the articles have been considered, will there be a vote to accept or reject the revision as amended. So if there are areas of deep concern your membership should consider and bring to the delegates meeting any proposed amendments to individual Articles that will clarify or strengthen the Article.

I sincerely look forward to hearing from you and having the opportunity to address any concerns or questions you or your membership may have.

Bob

Bob Novak, 2VP Metro NY"
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Old 05-01-2011, 04:07 PM   #792
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I am please to comment that I spoke at a local unit rally this weekend giving a brief history of the Revised Constitution and an outline of the key points it presents.

My pleasure comes from the fact that while the members of that unit have not been regular posters on this subject they have as a group seen through the array of misinformation frequently posted here by none and or disenfranchised members.

There is hope for the WBCCI as long as the membership is not swayed but such misinformation.

Those members who wish additional information on this subject without the injection of misleading comments can sign on as a member to vbulletin.covvo.com , thread Revision.

The Revision Committee members stand ready to respond to any members questions or comments made to that site.



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Old 05-01-2011, 04:50 PM   #793
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Howie what misinformation were you able to clear up? I thought the entire idea of the revision is for delegates' and members to decide what direction they would like the club to take. There are wrong decisions and some opinions could be considered misinformation? I also didn't know that you were any part of the revision committee or acting on behalf as a spokesman.
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Old 05-01-2011, 09:32 PM   #794
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Easy Button

This is real easy to deal with, vote no to the whole thing and on July 5, 2011 you will have a new IP that owes nothing to the committee and this should go away. It will take the peeved parties a year to get support for another lawsuit to be put together and we will be back to where we were in 2009.

I can't be the only one who sees the smoke screen, right?
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Old 05-01-2011, 10:08 PM   #795
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Ed,

As I've said before, this whole thing was a way to kill a couple of birds with one stone.

Just one stone killed, DW, Lawsuit, Leo G. supporters, Forrest Amendment, 1M1V, MAL rights, SW, etc..., etc..., etc... because if it fails those subjects will not be able to be brought up again for sometime. And you've had more of the out spoken members leave the club that held the IBT/EC7's feet to the fire so there will be little if any fight going forward (Can you say MOHO issue passing in the future).

If it passes (in it's current form) the IBT/EC7 still has all the power they do today.

Either way, it's a "no-win".

I think in the game of Chess, they call this "Checkmate".

I just hope those pushing this thing will enjoy camping/caravaning with another brand of MOHO in the future, because it will happen under the new system.
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:01 AM   #796
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Paul, Hopefully our RP 11 Dan Neumarkel has sent the letter of certification to HQ stating a majority of Region 11 Units have re-voted in favor of Forrest's Motion. Haven't heard if this has happened yet. If the letter has been sent to HQ, then Cindy Reed can disseminate Forrests Motion to all Units on the continent to vote, yea or nea,before International. That way, I think it can get on the delegates agenda.
AZFlycatcher any news?
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Old 05-02-2011, 07:30 AM   #797
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Quote:
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This is real easy to deal with, vote no to the whole thing and on July 5, 2011 you will have a new IP that owes nothing to the committee and this should go away.
Ed you're incorrect there will be continuity with the next two IP's.

Also the committee continues one more year.

Quote:
I can't be the only one who sees the smoke screen, right?
perhaps

Quote:
Originally Posted by rideair View Post
because if it fails those subjects will not be able to be brought up again for sometime.
If it passes (in it's current form) the IBT/EC7 still has all the power they do today.
Paul you said you read the Revision how many times?

When it passes it will be the EC5

Quote:
I just hope those pushing this thing will enjoy camping/caravaning with another brand of MOHO in the future, because it will happen under the new system.
Nice to make wild statements without basis


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Old 05-02-2011, 07:53 AM   #798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
Ed you're incorrect there will be continuity with the next two IP's.

Also the committee continues one more year.



.
Good Lord preserve us! I might have to block all the WBCCI threads as well. Another year of insufferable grandstanding... I don't know if this is like Big Brother or Outer Limits but enough is enough, they will control all we see and hear...UNCLE. Leadership wins I am completely worn away by the tedium and torture.Who hands over $65.00 to keep these guys touring??

YouTube - The Outer Limits Intro

The days got worse and worse and now you see I've gone completely out of my mind.
YouTube - They're Coming to Take Me Away Hahaaa!
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