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Old 04-26-2011, 11:45 PM   #757
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Perhaps my last comment was unclear. Dwight gave me the impression, not necessarily anyone else, that the $40,000 charged to the International Rally budget was paid directly to the office staff in Jackson Center. My understanding is that the $40,000 is a cost allocation which includes all the Jackson Center office overhead items, including liability insurance. There is no direct payment to the office staff of this amount.

In addition, this amount has not changed in several years, even though the attendance at the International Rally has decreased over the years. I do not disagree with the allocation, but I believe that the amount should be reviewed and adjusted if necessary.

This results in reduced general overhead of WBCCI, which is paid from member dues, and increased cost of the International Rally, which is paid by the attendees.

Bill
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:06 AM   #758
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The general fund is a the big pot of money in the club. The International Rally fund is a smaller pot of money which comes from the International Rally fees. Any profit from the International each year is retained in the pot to cover potential future losses at future Internationals. We have about 100K left in that pot. We made a $87K profit on Gillette but a $103K loss at Madison. The general fund pot pays for general operations, which is mainly the $200K that goes for the office operations in Jackson Center. Most of that is salaries. The general fund pot is filled by mostly member dues, $370K/yr. They take $40K out of the rally pot each year to help fill the big pot. They justify that by saying the HQ and the officers do a lot of work in support of the rally. They use the fancy term "cost allocation transfer". That is true. This is the way the accounting system at WBCCI works. If you want a copy of the Financial statement PM me.
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Old 04-27-2011, 08:56 AM   #759
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Nonprofits have as bad or worse record of theft by employees and officers as for profits. That is one reason for an audit. Another is that auditors can save you money by suggesting reforms.

Board resist audits thinking they are doing a good job of running the organization, but that signifies a closed mind.

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Old 04-27-2011, 09:48 AM   #760
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Cojar - ok - I consede that this discussion does not beat complaining about taxes, government and the cost of living - - - - -

Your comments are very good - I think you bring up some great points in general about why to join the club to begin with - many of us don't need the club to go camping - I will say though, some of the best freinds I've made over the past few years have been because of the WBCCI - its increased my circle of friends from my local area to all over the country - and I think thats been pretty cool - so as I've said I pretty much ignore all the politial BS and enjoy it for what it is

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Old 04-27-2011, 07:31 PM   #761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rideair View Post

We are said [sic] that the "Member Caucus" is a great thing.
But when asked, "Who has control over when, where and how these meetings are scheduled?"
You're told "That's in the Bylaws".
So one has to ask the question.
Why in the world would I vote for a system that I have "NO IDEA" When, Where, How and by Whom will control these meetings?
And to be told "It's in the Bylaws". Guess "who" controls the "Bylaws" in the "New Constitution"? That's right, the IBT.
Apparently you missed this part in reading the revision.

Sec. 1 There shallbe an Annual Members’ Caucus scheduled during the summer months or at a scheduled International Rally, if needed, to discuss proposed amendments to the Standard of Conduct or Constitution and other agenda items. Discussions at the Annual Members’ Caucus shall serve to inform members and the originators of proposed amendments about concerns, possible modifications and benefits of the proposal before a direct vote by members takes place.
Sec. 2 All WBCCI members may attend and participate in the Annual Members’ Caucus.
Sec. 3 Headquarters will prepare the Annual Members’ Caucus agenda which will include any proposed amendments to the Standard of Conduct or Constitution submitted in accordance with Article XVII, or any item proposed for discussion by the International President, the Executive Committee, the IBT, an Area or Unit. The agenda will be published in The Blue Beret and on the WBCCI website at least thirty (30) days prior to the Annual Members’ Caucus.
Sec. 4 The International President shall preside at the Annual Members’ caucus.




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Old 04-27-2011, 09:08 PM   #762
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Whose caucus?

“Sec. 4 The International President shall preside at the Annual Members’ caucus.”

Does anyone detect a conflict of interest or a controlling interest with the IP presiding over the members’ caucus?

Definitions of caucus:
1. a closed meeting of the members of one party in a legislative chamber, etc, to coordinate policy, choose candidates, etc.
2. such a bloc of politicians: the Democratic caucus in Congress; a group of leading politicians of one party; a meeting of such a group.
3. a local meeting of party members.
4. a group or faction within a larger group, especially a political party, who discuss tactics, choose candidates, etc.

Is it the IPs' caucus or the members' caucus?
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:32 PM   #763
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See RONR pg 587 generally and 433 "this person should be well versed in parliamentary law and should be thoroughly familiar with the bylaws and other rules"

Who else would you suggest to preside?
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Old 04-27-2011, 10:25 PM   #764
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I am certainly glad to hear that intimate knowledge of RONR is a prerequisite for International office.

Bill

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See RONR pg 587 generally and 433 "this person should be well versed in parliamentary law and should be thoroughly familiar with the bylaws and other rules"

Who else would you suggest to preside?
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Old 04-28-2011, 08:54 AM   #765
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And it goes on and on and on add on............................
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Old 04-28-2011, 10:58 AM   #766
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Bob,

Thank you for the answers you provided. I have read the New Constitution many times and still don't see were it answers the questions.

I'm not trying to be a pain, but the sections you state from the New Constitution to answer my questions, really does not answer them at all.

So how does a WBCCI member call for a "Member Caucus" meeting?
How is it determined "when" and "where" it will be held and by "whom"?

Are you saying that I as a WBCCI member can say:

"I want to hold "The Member Caucus Meeting" in Virginia on July 23-24, 2012 does that becomes the "official" date, place and time it is to happen and the IBT Prez will show up?

What if Bill Smith another member wants to hold it in Texas on Aug. 1-3, 2012?

Who decides when, where and how this meeting will happen?

I'm sorry, your answer "does not" answer What or Who controls the When, Where and How these meetings are scheduled.

You said at one time "It will be controlled in the "Bylaws"". Under the New Constitution the IBT controls the "Bylaws". I understand there are those that are trying to change that, but what happens if they dont?

We will then be subject to the IBT determing and overseeing when, where and how this meeting will happen.

People who don't want to see the train wreck, should stop driving by.
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Old 04-28-2011, 12:10 PM   #767
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Good point, it is restricted to one annual Caucus at international.

Your could ask that deliberative Caucus be held if requested at the mid winter also.

The point of a Caucus is to have a group so to have several members picking different locations would not work.

Why don't you propose an amendment to accomplish that if you wish.


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Old 04-28-2011, 01:11 PM   #768
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Bob,

Thanks, but no thanks to proposing an amendment.

My guess, that delegates meeting will be the meeting from delegates hell even as it stands now.

Add to that, a bunch of amendments, wording and re-wording, strike this, add that, correct this statement, etc... and it gets ugly real fast to t he point where heads will be spinning and only a few who have been living this crap for the past 5 years will really understand whats happening and how each word will affect how this club is run and this is coming from someone that has read the current Constitution and Bylaws over 20 times and the New Constitution more than 10 times in both the long "diff" document and the short document.

As I said before, my time as a Unit Prez is over and it's up to the current leadership of the WDCU to take on this roll to educate the Unit, suggest changes and say if it is a good or bad choice to pass the New Constitution. I as a WBCCI member (not a WDCU officer)do not think it changes all that much and could make things worst. I will not be like some PIP's that still run the club from the sidelines. I will however keep asking questions and pointing out holes that need to be filled as a member of the WBCCI.
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Old 04-28-2011, 04:21 PM   #769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rideair View Post
My guess, that delegates meeting will be the meeting from delegates hell even as it stands now.
Add to that, a bunch of amendments, wording and re-wording, strike this, add that, correct this statement, etc... and it gets ugly real fast to the point where heads will be spinning and only a few who have been living this crap for the past 5 years will really understand whats happening and how each word will affect how this club is run
You know you just pointed out another reason(s) that delegate system has it flaws.

A Caucasus has a lot less pressure because the vote comes several weeks after the debate.

Quote:
I will not be like some PIP's that still run the club from the sidelines. I will however keep asking questions and pointing out holes that need to be filled as a member of the WBCCI.
The revision changes the role of the PIP to a non voting adviser.


ps:Are you going to your units Revision meeting tomorrow?




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Old 04-28-2011, 06:22 PM   #770
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ps:Are you going to your units Revision meeting tomorrow?
.
Maybe you will get lucky Paul and a PIP or PVACP, or PMTC will come and advise you. Maybe Bob will even come and enlighten you as to how to vote. Just be sure you are at the next International so your vote can be counted You had better contact you AP and have them change the rally from WDCU Capital Kick off Rally to Revisionist Meeting Rally. I can just see it now, a whole 1 minute will be spent discussing the issue. That is if the WDCU still holds the same business meetings it has in the past.
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