Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-14-2011, 07:09 PM   #81
Rivet Master
 
Southwestern , Ohio
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,669
Constitution versus Bylaws?

The WBCCI Constitution is a fairly brief document. Nine pages, including a lot of white space. It establishes the framework of the club organization, leaving many details up to the Bylaws. To name just one example, it describes a region structure without specifying the number or extent of regions.

Keeping this in mind, and bearing in mind that we have been told that the new Bylaws haven’t been written yet, let’s consider the specific changes to the club organization that were described at the Mid Winter IBT. I am relying here on two Airforums posts on the subject, which I have annotated with my own comments in bold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanB View Post
Synopsis:

- Enabled electronic means of operation Constitution doesn’t specify method of voting.

- Individual voting Constitution does say MALs don’t have a vote. (I believe this is incidental to the Delegate system—MALs don’t have a unit, hence no delegate.)

- MAL empowerment Constitution

- Reduced IBT terms for most Bylaws. Region/IBT office terms not specified in Constitution.

- Smaller IBT & region structure Bylaws – Region structure not specified in Constitution

- New "Standard of Conduct" Bylaws – not specified on Constitution.

- Ethics & grievance is eliminated. Bylaws – standing committees not specified in Constitution.

- International will have less meetings. Constitution
Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post

· We have gone back to our club roots and replaced the Code of Ethics with a Standard of Conduct that is positive, that further enshrines the Fun, Fellowship and Adventure of WBCCI.
Code of Ethics not in Constitution

· The proposal is based on a leaner WBCCI structure, with a smaller Executive Committee and a smaller regional structure resulting in a smaller IBT.
Executive Committee is enumerated in Constitution—region structure is not.

· We are shortening the term of office for region officers and lengthening the term for the International Treasurer and Recording Secretary, for purposes of continuity. Terms of region officers not specified in Constitution.

· We are proposing to use direct member voting for election of officers and for future amendments to our Constitution while retaining a deliberative forum for discussing key issues. Constitution, to the extent elimination of the Delegate system is involved. Method of voting not specified in Constitution.

· We are giving greater flexibility in setting dates for the International Rally and, since with direct member voting there will be no Delegates, we will have fewer meetings at the rally, allowing more opportunity for Fun, Fellowship and Adventure. Constitution

· We are proposing that MALs be given more rights within the Club, such as the right to vote and hold office in Intra-Clubs and at the International level. Constitution

· There is a simplified and streamlined process for any future amendments to the Constitution and Standard of Conduct that will be the same for all, no matter where the proposed amendment originates.
Constitution presently specifies procedures for amendments. What do you want to bet the “streamlined” process for future amendments eliminates the requirement for a 2/3 majority to make it easier for the Executive Committee to get what they want? Present Constitution does not include any Standard of Conduct.

· One thing that is new is that WBCCI will be able to use electronic means to do any and all of its business, as may be appropriate. Present Constitution does not specify methods of voting, so does not preclude electronic means.
My point here is that many of the changes described at the Mid Winter IBT meeting are presently under the purview of the Bylaws, which, we are told, won’t be revised until the new Constitution is adopted.
.
__________________

Nuvite-F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2011, 07:16 PM   #82
Rivet Master
 
wheel interested's Avatar
 
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer , Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
See Sec 2, how many?
No I don't see it nor am I about to look it up. GUARANTEED! Post it if it's relevant. Forget it if it's too much trouble. As far as my questions to you they seem to have gone unaswered as the others have afore them. If I wanted googly goo answers I could write the officers direct. Somehow the solution to meetings running over too many days and the leadership being too large doesn't seem to be satisfied with simple elimination of direct member representation by cutting out delegates from the system. BEWARE! Being reminded that we want change and here it is and accept it now or choke on it isn't exactly what the members had in mind. We want to be discriminating in our decisions. I dare say we have ample reason to be skeptical of being gifted.
__________________

wheel interested is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2011, 07:16 PM   #83
4 Rivet Member
 
UAPachyderm's Avatar
 
2004 28' International CCD
Birmingham , Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 323
I try to stay out of these dark threads but I just wanted to interrupt y'all's perpetual argument to say Happy Valentines!!!

Sent from my iPhone using AIR Forums
UAPachyderm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2011, 07:18 PM   #84
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuvite-F View Post
and bearing in mind that we have been told that the new Bylaws haven’t been written yet......won’t be revised until the new Constitution is adopted.
.
Not sure where you where told that, it is not correct, they have been Revised, they can not be finalized pending amendments at the delegates meeting on the New Constitution.
__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2011, 07:22 PM   #85
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested View Post
No I don't see it nor am I about to look it up. GUARANTEED! Post it if it's relevant. Forget it if it's too much trouble. As far as my questions they seem to have gone unaswered.
Please don't get testy Carol, be nice, there are 3 VP's
__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2011, 07:34 PM   #86
Rivet Master
 
wheel interested's Avatar
 
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer , Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,046
I am not being testy, I will not look at small print nor rule books I leave that for you and others that have the stomach for those kinds of things. I will keep my eyes and ears open and absorb what I can through osmosis. Tell me what secondary and third in waiting have to do. This club should be able to almost run itself except for the tradition of moving up the ladder and rewards. I do have an aversion to cramming for the understanding of the rules of this recreational club as is shared and evidenced by many others, both in and out of the club. You can puff up with pride and strut or you can come back down and 'splain it to me. Why is the Executive Committee essential?
wheel interested is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2011, 07:43 PM   #87
Rivet Master
 
Coloradobus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 804
Rideair is RIGHT on the MONEY!!!! We need Bylaws that say RELAXED CAMPING ATMOSPHERE!!. The WBCCI isn't the miliary, or a prep school, or an academy of some type. Its a camping-caravan club.
__________________
JIM n CHRIS
"62 ATW Overlander, '51 Flying Cloud
'67 GT, '90 Squarestream 29ft, 06 Bambi, Bigfoot slide in/GMC Denali K2500, Marathon Coach, Class A.
Coloradobus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2011, 07:52 PM   #88
Rivet Master
 
rideair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,311
"You're really addressing issues with the Bylaws not the constitution

Which is the next step in the order of change, assuming the Constitution is adopted, the New Bylaws will follow for adoption at the next quarterly meeting of the new smaller IBT"

BINGO

Thank you for making my point! The "REAL" problems with the WBCCI or should we say the "WBCCI IBT/EC7" "IS NOT" the WBCCI Constitution but how the IBT/EC7 conducts themselves and writes the By-Laws that give them all the goodies and makes life rough for everyone.. They could double the number of IBT and EC7 members for all I care "AS LONG AS THEY ALL" stop taking the $$$ to travel around the country, git rid of the slacks,ties, etc.... and stop trying to shove things down our throat we don't want!

The problem is not the WBCCI Constitution, but the ones in power of it!
__________________
Paul Waddell
rideair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2011, 08:00 PM   #89
Rivet Master
 
Southwestern , Ohio
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,669
Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
Not sure where you where told that, it is not correct, they have been Revised, they can not be finalized pending amendments at the delegates meeting on the New Constitution.
Here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wkerfoot View Post
John Boutwell stated that the bylaws will not be revised until the constitution is approved. If rejected, there will, of course, be no revision. If the constitution is revised, there will be a new model constitution for the units.
So. . . if the Bylaws have been revised--and are tightly integrated with the new Constitution that the members are expected to approve--why can't the members see them?

I realize that the making of laws is much like the making of sausage, but frankly, this shell game is enough to gag a maggot.
.
Nuvite-F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2011, 08:37 PM   #90
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by rideair View Post
The problem is not the WBCCI Constitution, but the ones in power of it!
If you vote yes the members will be in power!
__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2011, 09:01 PM   #91
Rivet Master
 
rideair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,311
Matrix

Could this be really happening? The very people (IBT/EC7) who has worked the system to get all the perks, control the membership and chase so many members away from the club have now seen the light and want to give control to the membership in such a way that we can take away all their $$$, power and control.

I keep forgetting, was I suppose to take the red or blue? That's right, You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.

Sorry to see you needed to take the blue pill.
__________________
Paul Waddell
rideair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2011, 11:50 PM   #92
Rivet Master
 
Coloradobus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 804
Secret--secret, who has a secret?

I agree with Rideair. Why is all this such a BIG secret? We are off to the Palm Springs Modernism Show Week as spectators.
Maybe when we get back all the cloat and dagger and inuendo will be over.
__________________
JIM n CHRIS
"62 ATW Overlander, '51 Flying Cloud
'67 GT, '90 Squarestream 29ft, 06 Bambi, Bigfoot slide in/GMC Denali K2500, Marathon Coach, Class A.
Coloradobus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 12:15 PM   #93
Certifiable
 
mistral blue's Avatar
 
. , .
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,467
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested View Post
Why is the Executive Committee essential?
It isn't.
But you'll never hear that from a committee created by the Executive Committee.

Eliminate the Executive Committee.
Eliminate Mandatory Travel.

Vote No Confidence.
__________________
"IT'S A MAGICAL WORLD, HOBBES, OL' BUDDY... LET'S GO EXPLORING!" ~ CALVIN
mistral blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 01:28 PM   #94
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,023
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistral blue View Post
It isn't.
But you'll never hear that from a committee created by the Executive Committee.
You seam to be a continuing source of misinformation by inferring that Committee was formed, suggested, created, or called for by the EC. The only part the EC played in this to date was when the report was presented to them for their consideration.

While it may not fit your style comments about how to vote may be better served by waiting until you have read the proposed changes. You clearly wanted change when Defendwally was first created, you just have lost your staying power.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 01:47 PM   #95
Certifiable
 
mistral blue's Avatar
 
. , .
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,467
Whose words are these?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
You seam to be a continuing source of misinformation by inferring that Committee was formed, suggested, created, or called for by the EC. The only part the EC played in this to date was when the report was presented to them for their consideration.

While it may not fit your style comments about how to vote may be better served by waiting until you have read the proposed changes. You clearly wanted change when Defendwally was first created, you just have lost your staying power.
"This will be a committee of the Executive Committee. It is being created to recommend to the Executive Committee a revision of the constitution and bylaws and policy. It will incorporate the information collected over the past several years and strive to detect and eliminate any inconsistency or any ambiguities and provide its recommendations to the executive committee for its action."
__________________
"IT'S A MAGICAL WORLD, HOBBES, OL' BUDDY... LET'S GO EXPLORING!" ~ CALVIN
mistral blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 02:13 PM   #96
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistral blue View Post

Eliminate the Executive Committee.
That's a sound idea , why would any organization need a President, VP, recording secretary or treasurer.
__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 02:21 PM   #97
Certifiable
 
mistral blue's Avatar
 
. , .
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,467
Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
That's a sound idea , why would any organization need a President, VP, recording secretary or treasurer.
They can stay.

Eliminate the Executive Committee
Eliminate Mandatory Travel
Eliminate the Nominating Committee

Vote No Confidence
__________________
"IT'S A MAGICAL WORLD, HOBBES, OL' BUDDY... LET'S GO EXPLORING!" ~ CALVIN
mistral blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 02:21 PM   #98
Master of Universe
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11,428
Often corporations have a board of directors and an executive committee. The exec. comm. usually has all or most of the powers of the board. The board meets periodically and the executive committee meets when action is required and there isn't enough time to get the board together. But there are many variations on this—sometimes the exec. comm. meets fairly frequently and the board may only meet annually, semiannually or quarterly. The bigger the board, the less likely it will meet frequently. The Exec. Comm. usually comprises the officers and maybe a few directors chosen by the board.

It is necessary to have an exec. comm. for emergencies. It can be limited in power and how often it meets. A smaller board makes it less likely the exec. comm. will meet as often. If you don't have an exec. comm., the officers will have to have power to act in emergencies, or you can have teleconferences with the board.

In my experience it is very difficult to get all the directors and even an executive committee together on short notice because the people who serve on these are often busy and need a lot of notice. Teleconferences with a large board are awful experiences, but with a small exec. comm. may work ok.

Board don't like exec. committees because the directors don't like decisions being made without them.

Gene
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 02:34 PM   #99
Master of Universe
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11,428
Nominating Committee are supposed to find people to run for office. This can be a very difficult job because being a director or officer of a fair sized nonprofit is often a very time consuming job. Often retired people are the only people with the time. In a good world, the Committee would also engage in leadership training.

Of course, leaders often pack the Committee with their own kind and make sure clones are nominated.

These problems can be solved by making it easy to nominate from the floor or by internet or mail. Units could nominate people. Eliminating strict requirements that make it impossible to quickly rise in the structure of the organization would make it easier for new blood to be nominated and elected. Votes could be by mail and e-mail to increase democracy and participation.

When I served on the board and as an officer of a nonprofit I would often put in 10 to 40 hours a week and never could get done all that I hoped to do. We had quarterly board meetings that were two days each. The Exec. Comm. sometimes only met once a quarter, sometimes more. Those meetings were 2-3 hours. I served and chaired a number of committees—more time and preparation. Every meeting meant 1.5 to 10 hours travel. I paid for my lodging, meals and gas. I was always under pressure to donate money. Once I was free again the sense of relief was wonderful. These are not jobs that attract a lot of volunteers.

Gene
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 02:44 PM   #100
Naysayer
 
Boondocker's Avatar

 
1968 24' Tradewind
Louisville , earth
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,635
Images: 7
Send a message via Yahoo to Boondocker
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
........
Of course, leaders often pack the Committee with their own kind and make sure clones are nominated.........
Gene
A minimum requirement might be the ability to differentiate ones best interest from the clubs. Perhaps even to act accordingly on that information.
__________________

__________________
Rodney

Visit my photography page
and the
Favorite camp grounds project map
My Blog

(The artist formerly known as General Disarray)

Boondocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
constitution, wbcci


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
×