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Old 04-06-2011, 03:36 PM   #673
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HowieE,

I have reviewed the old Article XVI, new Article XVIII, and you may be correct, however Article XV still gives the IBT control over the Bylaws.

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Often times problems can be solved by a stroke of a pen. For those that have questioned about control of the Bylaws as a missing part of the equation should go back and reread Article XVI with this single word addition as an amendment. The date of 2012 is an administrative necessity allowing the Revision Committee to complete their assigned task of rewriting the Bylaws.
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Old 04-06-2011, 05:33 PM   #674
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this was posted on Metro NY

ARTICLE XVI

Sec. 2 Any chartered Unit, Area Board,the IBT, or the International President may submit in writing to Headquarters
a proposed amendment to this
Standard of Conduct,
Bylaws (commencing in 2012) or Constitution.

.
Wkerfoot

It appears there is some confusion with Article XVl in post 681 that should read Article XVlll Section 2.





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Old 04-06-2011, 05:47 PM   #675
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In our Region 9 President's newsletter for April, President C. C. Gartman comes out strongly against adoption of the new constitution. Posted on wbregion9.org
John

Are you posting this comment because you support your Presidents position and after having read the Revised Constitution.
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Old 04-06-2011, 07:00 PM   #676
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Old 04-06-2011, 07:47 PM   #677
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We are newbies to Airstream and the WBCCI, but not foreigners to these kinds of contentious debates.

The intensity of some of these posts reminds me of the heated and contentious debates last year in our long established Lutheran Church. The history is worth a brief review: The Lutheran Synod passed changes in the constitution which were objectionable to many parishioners. Debates erupted all over the country. Our local church now no longer exists! The church congregation split, friendships dissolved, bitterness reigned, and we lost 30 years of effort to build a strong and lasting community church. Also our $7 million church and acreage are now history.

Please, just be very careful about how solutions are sought and conflicts resolved. I perceive a distinct awareness that many, many folks have invested incredible amounts of time and energy to evolve this club to its current level of prestige and prominence.

All of us would rue the demise of the WBCCI, if it did indeed occur.

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Old 04-06-2011, 08:01 PM   #678
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What about:

ARTICLE X
INTERNATIONAL BOARD OF TRUSTEES
Sec. 3 The IBT shall define the Bylaws and policies of, and shall have full administrative authority in all matters pertaining to the WBCCI and shall exercise general control and supervision of all officers and committees.


ARTICLE XV
BYLAWS AND POLICY
Sec. 1 Bylaws and Policies not inconsistent with this Standard of Conduct and Constitution which embody additional provisions for the governance of the WBCCI may be adopted by the IBT.


OK, let's just call this kettle black and be done with it. The amount of work/time it will take to make the "New Constitution" something that can be used, we could have spent half the amount of time to fix the old one.

Vote No, fix the one we have and be done with it. A lot less work, a far better product and much more control to the membership.
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:26 PM   #679
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Paul

I believe your first comment pertains to article lX section 3 rather than article X section 3.

But in any case is your point the reference to the obligations of the IBT?

The for mentioned amendment in post 681 provides for the origination of changes to the bylaws. The articles you note provides for the administration of the bylaws. If I recall past comments it was the lack of an effective means for the membership to originate changes to the bylaws that was the stumbling block for so many previous posts. Doesn't 681 address that concern?




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Old 04-06-2011, 10:03 PM   #680
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HowieE,

It is not the ability to originate changes in the bylaws the the control over what is in the bylaws. Two completely different things.

Bill

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Paul

I believe your first comment pertains to article lX section 3 rather than article X section 3.

But in any case is your point the reference to the obligations of the IBT?

The for mentioned amendment in post 681 provides for the origination of changes to the bylaws. The articles you note provides for the administration of the bylaws. If I recall past comments it was the lack of an effective means for the membership to originate changes to the bylaws that was the stumbling block for so many previous posts. Doesn't 681 address that concern?




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Old 04-06-2011, 10:28 PM   #681
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Effect on Unit Constitutions & Bylaws

I was just cleaning out my desk and came upon this note I was saving for future reference:

This is the part of the current WBCCI Constitution that binds Units to the Club: ARTICLE XI, CLUB ORGANIZATION, Sec. 1, “Said Units and Regions shall be bound by the Articles of Incorporation, Constitution and Bylaws, rules and policy of the International Club as then in existence and as thereafter amended.”

The proposed revised constitution isn’t an amendment to the present WBCCI Constitution. Instead, it is an entirely new constitution. In his letter to the Unit Presidents, International President Beu writes, “The Constitution is the framework which defines our organization. When there are extensive changes throughout the constitution, Roberts Rules of Order Newly Revised defines this as a revision, a new document. A revision is not an amendment or a substitute.”

Therefore, if the proposed revised constitution, is approved, regardless of whatever final form it may take, each Unit (as well as intra-clubs) will need to write a new constitution that is compliant to the revision, should they decide to remain in the new, revised, club.

I don’t mention this to influence anyone to vote one way or the other. It is just food for thought. Some may feel this is a good reason to vote for the revision, others against it.
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Old 04-07-2011, 12:43 AM   #682
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Forrest,

If that's the case (which it is) and let's say a Unit or a Intra-club refuses to change their Constitution could that said Unit or Intra-Club say the WBCCI left them? Thus allowing that Unit or Intra-Club to take their $$$$$ and leave??

This could turn into a great chance for Units or Intra-Clubs that have thought of leaving the oppt. to do so??

I'm not one of those so called "Law Man" but this could be an easy case to win!!!!

And remember that is the new catch phrase ""WINNING"
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:54 PM   #683
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Forrest,

If that's the case (which it is) and let's say a Unit or a Intra-club refuses to change their Constitution could that said Unit or Intra-Club say the WBCCI left them? Thus allowing that Unit or Intra-Club to take their $$$$$ and leave??
I'm an officer in an organization that could be considered similar to WBCCI although not RV oriented. When our mothership changed their operating rules, the end user organizations were required to sign new affiliation agreements agreeing to the changes. Much like making local unit constitutions compliant with the WBCCI constitution. We had problems with some of those changes and informed our mothership that we would only sign the affiliation with certain changes. They refused and we were expelled from the national organization. As it ended up its been a blessing and our local membership hasn't wavered. As it ended up the mothership only needed our dues to help fund their national convention. Our local dues provided a lot more bang for the buck to our membership.

Jack
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:03 PM   #684
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Forrest,
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Quote:
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If that's the case (which it is) and let's say a Unit or a Intra-club refuses to change their Constitution could that said Unit or Intra-Club say the WBCCI left them? Thus allowing that Unit or Intra-Club to take their $$$$$ and leave??

This could turn into a great chance for Units or Intra-Clubs that have thought of leaving the oppt. to do so??


I think so.

The current Constitution states, "The Board of Trustees may suspend or revoke the Charter of any Unit for failure to abide by the Constitution, Bylaws or Policy of the International Club."

Elsewhere, "The Board of Trustees shall have supervision over all real and personal property of the Club, including the disposal and distribution thereof in the event of the Dissolution of... a Unit thereof."

The two situations appear to me to be different. Is having a charter revoked the same as dissolution? Is leaving the same as dissolution?

The Revision Committee's Constitution has the exact same language, "The IBT shall have supervision over all real and personal property of the Club, including the disposal and distribution thereof in the event of the dissolution of... a Unit thereof."

There is no such language for intraclubs, such as the VAC. So, it is less clear if the VAC could leave with its structure and treasury intact. But yes, I share your view that a new constitution equals a new club, and would require all units and intraclubs to resubmit documentation equivalent to being re-chartered.

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Old 04-07-2011, 04:39 PM   #685
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The way I read it, if they revoke your charter they can't keep your treasury. Otherwise this could be the last ditch way to finance the great american tour
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:31 PM   #686
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This reminds me of what happens when there is schism in a church.

Are there any other parts of the organization's various documents that talk about assets of the WBCCI and units? The first one quoted seems to say the charter may be revoked, but that doesn't really say what happens to the unit as a group itself—are they incorporated themselves? How can the WBCCI dissolve a unit if it is incorporated? I expect there may be other places the relationship between units and the WBCCI are defined.

The revised or amended constitution may have different language about this issue. If so, then units will have to decide whether to leave before or after a vote about which they don't know the outcome.

Then there are units that dissolve or are merged with another unit. What has happened in the past to the assets?

Since money is involved, it is bound to be messy.

Gene
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