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Old 04-04-2011, 10:38 AM   #631
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HQ now has the complete official revision posted
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:39 AM   #632
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If the constitution passes does this mean the person currently in line for 3VP gets a layoff slip?
Actually Will the new officers be elected prior to the vote on the other issues?
Need a couple rainy days to read all this stuff
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:32 PM   #633
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Tom, Kerry and myself have decided to no longer answer questions here due to the destructive nature of certain users herein.

We have asked Andy & Bob(Canoe) to allow us to post a link

We are awaiting their permission, we can then discuss this in a civil manner.

.
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:56 PM   #634
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Bob, Tom and Kerry,

That sounds like a great idea.

Would it be to much to ask where will this new location be and who the moderator's?

Inquiring minds would like to know?
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Old 04-04-2011, 02:03 PM   #635
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After I posted about my question being ignored, I received two PMs one of which stated that either my questions were premature or the sender did not have the answers. This member also stated that after the documents were posted on the WBCCI site the questions could be presented to the revision committee. However, I do not see a way to address questions to the committee on the WBCCI site regarding the revised constitution.

How can I send my questions to the revision committee?

Bill
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Old 04-04-2011, 02:06 PM   #636
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Shouldn't article XV, section 1 say "and" and not "or" so that both the IBT and delegates are required to approve changes in the ByLaws and Policies?

Bill

Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT View Post
I believe that during the Delegates Meeting Seminar and Meeting alternative proposals can be discussed, brought forward, and enacted. This is an amendment of Article XVI. Here is one that absolutely empowers the membership. Passage of this proposed amendment will give members and their units immediate access to not only the Constitution and Bylaws, but also any and all Policy documents:

Proposed WBCCI Constitutional Amendment

I move to amend the Constitution to allow Members through their Delegates or Units to adopt Bylaws and Policy.

This amendment will require rewording in the four sections of the Constitution as shown below. Each section of the Constitution follows with the simple amendment and insertions underlined in bold (nothing is deleted).

1. Constitution Article XV By Laws and Policy, Section 1
By Laws and Policy not inconsistent with this Constitution embodying additional provisions for government of the Wally Byam Caravan Club International, Inc. may be adopted by the Board of Trustees or by the chartered units of the club.
2. Constitution Article XVI Amendments, Section 1
Proposed amendments to this Constitution or Bylaws and Policy may be submitted to Headquarters in writing by any chartered Unit of the club. Any such amendment(s) shall bear a certification by the Unit President that it has been approved by a majority vote conducted in accordance with the Unit's Constitution and Bylaws. The proposed amendment(s) shall also bear a certification by the President of the Region of which the originating Unit is a part, that the amendment has likewise been approved by a majority of the Units within that Region. Upon receipt of the proposed amendment(s) bearing the required certifications, Headquarters shall distribute copies to the Presidents of all other chartered units for ratification or rejection. When two thirds of the club's chartered Units have ratified the proposed amendment(s) by majority votes according to their Constitution and Bylaws and the Unit Presidents have so certified to Headquarters, such amendment(s) shall be deemed to be adopted. If two-thirds of the Club's Units do not ratify the proposed amendment(s) within one year following the distribution to the Unit
Presidents, the proposed amendment(s) shall be deemed to have been rejected and to be of no further effect.
3. Constitution Article XVI Amendments, Section 2
Amendments to this Constitution or Bylaws and Policy may also be adopted by a two-thirds vote of the members represented by Delegates present and voting at the annual Delegates Meeting voting in accordance with Article XII of the Constitution. Such proposed amendment(s) may be submitted in writing by any chartered unit, by the Board of Trustees and by the International President. Any such amendment(s) submitted by a Unit shall bear a certification by the Unit President that it has been approved by a majority vote conducted in accordance with the Unit's Constitution and Bylaws. The proposed amendment(s) shall also bear a certification by the President of the Region of which the originating unit is a part, that the amendment has also been approved by a majority of the members of the Region Board of such region. Such proposed amendment(s) shall arrive at Headquarters by March 1. Headquarters shall distribute copies to the Presidents of all chartered Units by April 1 (90 days prior to the Delegates Meeting to which such proposed amendment(s) are to be presented, in order to give the units ample time to vote and instruct their Delegates.
4. Constitution Article XVI Amendments, Section 3
A copy of any proposal to amend the Constitution or Bylaws and Policy pursuant to the provisions of this article shall be submitted by Headquarters to the Constitution and By Laws Committee prior to being submitted to the Unit Presidents. The Constitution and Bylaws Committee shall provide Headquarters with a written report containing its recommendations(s) regarding the proposed amendment(s) by March 20. Headquarters shall submit copies of this Constitution and By Laws Committee report to the Unit Presidents with the copies of the proposed amendment(s) distributed in accordance with Sections 1 and 2 of this article.

One small amendment, just a few simple words added to the CURRENT CONSTITUTION and now the membership can steer the club in any direction it sees fit, with a 2/3rds majority... See how easy it is to revise the current constitution bringing MAJOR value added benefits to the membership?

Does this help the membership curb supercilious spending, including the annual Grand North American Tour? You bet it does...

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Old 04-04-2011, 02:18 PM   #637
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Leo,

The first paragraph states that changes may be adopted, to me that means incorporated into the bylaws. If "or" is used, what happens if the IBT adopts something and the delegates adopt something in conflict, what rules? If adopt was changed to present, or some similar word, then this possible conflict would not exist.

Not trying to be picky, just clear.

Bill

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Bill,

I believe the OR differentiates the two different sources and approaches from which the changes could be made. Either way it is a very small difference that does not affect the end result. Have it your way...

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Old 04-04-2011, 02:25 PM   #638
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Leo,

That solves the potential conflict, in my mind anyway.

Bill

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Originally Posted by 65GT View Post
Bill,

I had revised my statement -- I think we crossed posts... Please see above again...

(revising here) Member adjustments should overrule IBT adjustments in all instances. It's the membership's club...

Leo
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Old 04-04-2011, 02:57 PM   #639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wkerfoot View Post
After I posted about my question being ignored, I received two PMs one of which stated that either my questions were premature or the sender did not have the answers. This member also stated that after the documents were posted on the WBCCI site the questions could be presented to the revision committee. However, I do not see a way to address questions to the committee on the WBCCI site regarding the revised constitution.

How can I send my questions to the revision committee?

Bill
It was supposed to be posted, wbccirevision@gmail.com
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Old 04-04-2011, 04:06 PM   #640
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The complete package that went to the delegates is now on the WBCCI site and can be reached here

http://www.wbcci.org/documents/Deleg...3-30-20111.pdf

For the same material in a somewhat easier format to read it can be read here

WDCU - Washington D.C. Unit (#170)

An open Forum for discussion of the Revised Constitution can be reached here.

Revision
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Old 04-04-2011, 05:44 PM   #641
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I want to correct a statement made long, long ago (actually long ago in posts, yesterday in time) by Boondocker. It was about how to amend a motion. A member of the assembly (delegate in this case) may propose a "friendly amendment" before a second to the motion is made. Often this rule is ignored and friendly amendments are accepted after a second is made, but strictly, this is not ok. Once a second has been made, the normal amending process is to be used—one can move (the "maker") to amend the motion and then a second has to be made, discussion must follow, then a vote.

My understanding is the changes will be presented as amendments, but that must be done by a motion to amend (that would be the "main motion"). It may be the chair making the motion since it was his committee. I don't think anything prohibits the chair from making motions, although it does not look good and either the chair of the committee should make the motion, or the chair should step aside and have the vice chair run the meeting.

The idea of having the constitution amended to permit the members or delegates amend them is a good idea. I think that it will have to be included in one of the amendments being presented since they will probably be the only ones before this group. Why not eliminate the leadership (trustees or whatever they are called) entirely? Then just substitute the word "members" for "trustees" and include "only the members may amend or adopt bylaws notwithstanding any other provisions in this constitution". Then you have to amend them to establish control before the leaders use the un-amended ones to consolidate their control. I don't know how that will get on the agenda unless you include it in that amendment. Something to think about anyway.

There are many versions of Robert's Rules. They are similar and mostly identical in their main points, but page numbers and some things may differ. The edition the organization uses should be stated in the constitution or bylaws. If it is not, then the parliamentarian may be using a different one and that can lead to disputes. It best to check on this and use the same edition when challenging things.

Gene
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:34 PM   #642
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Just Vote No

Just vote no, there is nooooooo benefit for us WBCCI members with the proposed changes. They are so minor and so not helping grow the club that I feel this is a real waste of time. OR is it just a smoke screen...........

Me, I smell smoke.
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:58 PM   #643
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Seems like the non-members have won this battle! Congratulations.
This thread is now ignored.
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Old 04-04-2011, 07:07 PM   #644
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I'm with you ED

Ed,

I’m with you on this one. There’s not a nickels worth of difference between Regions/Areas and Delegates/Caucus. So let’s look at the number of IBT guys. If you take away all of their travel dollars does it really matter if you have 6, 12, 20, etc… if you don’t pay them, who cares how many you have! As for 1M1V, have them vote through the WBCCI HQ, if they wish to send a delegate to cast their votes “OK”, if not, “Fine”.

The “New Constitution” does not give the power of the purse to the membership, until that happens, nothing will change.

VOTE NO!!!


DanB, I’m a member and I’m still here!
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