Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-03-2011, 10:36 AM   #603
Naysayer
 
Boondocker's Avatar

 
1968 24' Tradewind
Louisville , earth
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,635
Images: 7
Send a message via Yahoo to Boondocker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondocker View Post
As a side note, isn't this whole document being presented as a motion of the IP? and if this is the case, would he have to accept any amendments?
Anyone?
__________________

__________________
Rodney

Visit my photography page
and the
Favorite camp grounds project map
My Blog

(The artist formerly known as General Disarray)

Boondocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 10:51 AM   #604
Site Team
 
azflycaster's Avatar
 
1975 25' Tradewind
Dewey , Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 12,124
Images: 62
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondocker View Post
Anyone?
In theory you are correct. Amendments can be made to the motion. The meeting is chaired by the maker of the motion who will rule if a motion is out of order or not. He can seek the advice of the parliamentarian, who just happens to be the chair of the committee that created the revision.

There are things that can be done if it is believed that the meeting chairman is not acting in an impartial manner. These include appealing the decision of the chair, replacing the chairman of the meeting or calling for an adornment to the meeting. All of these items are covered in Roberts Rules...
__________________

__________________

Richard

Wally Byam Airstream Club 7513
azflycaster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 10:55 AM   #605
Rivet Master
 
DanB's Avatar
 
1970 23' Safari
2005 30' Classic
1986 31' Sovereign
Lorain , Ohio
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,616
Images: 9
You are correct that Wally's name is not being removed. But, if passed, it will become optional at the discretion of the user.

Maybe I'm beating down an small issue, but i just feel this doesn't belong.

moving on......
__________________
DanB
________________________________
Proud Member of the Wally Byam Airstream Club #24260

www.campnova.com

The “Ohio Airstreamer -- Informal forum for weekend camping” thread.
DanB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 11:19 AM   #606
Naysayer
 
Boondocker's Avatar

 
1968 24' Tradewind
Louisville , earth
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,635
Images: 7
Send a message via Yahoo to Boondocker
Quote:
Originally Posted by azflycaster View Post
In theory you are correct. Amendments can be made to the motion. The meeting is chaired by the maker of the motion who will rule if a motion is out of order or not. He can seek the advice of the parliamentarian, who just happens to be the chair of the committee that created the revision.

There are things that can be done if it is believed that the meeting chairman is not acting in an impartial manner. These include appealing the decision of the chair, replacing the chairman of the meeting or calling for an adornment to the meeting. All of these items are covered in Roberts Rules...
Years ago, when I was in High School, I was a member of the FFA. One of the things that was central to the organization was training in parliamentary procedure. So, strange as it may seem, weeks and weeks of class room time in Ag class went to learning how the system works. This training may be the most useful education I received in High School. Although this was years ago, I cant believe THAT much can have changed in how PP works. On the basis of my memory a few points seem important.

1. The originator of a motion must accept amendments. So in this case, the IP, as the the originator, would maintain ultimate control over what is voted on.

2. As the originator, the IP is bound to 'pass the gavel' during the discussions on his motion.

3. Unlike in FFA competitions, there will be no truly neutral authority to turn to if the the chair and other officials are acting in cahoots. Hence, the rules will mean what they say they mean.

If amendments are offered and declined by the IP, the delegates are faced with an up or down vote. In order to offer the changes, they would have to make motions of their own (ask Forest how well that works). Without a way to insure that Parliamentary Procedure will be honored, it doesn't matter what the rules are- it is a stacked deck.
__________________
Rodney

Visit my photography page
and the
Favorite camp grounds project map
My Blog

(The artist formerly known as General Disarray)

Boondocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 03:52 PM   #607
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,806
Images: 12
Lets give the IP a brake. He and he alone commissioned this Committee. Do you really think he would have let this go this far only to stand before the members and make a complete ass of himself by destroying what he been an active party to. The Committee did not spring this on him at the last minute. He has been party to conversations through out the committees work.

Yes the Club has a history of Freckless Leadership by egotists with a well documented agenda of self preservation and gratification. This IP has stepped up to the plate and at least attempted to facilitate change before the Club implodes.

There is a proposal on the table that would give 1m 1v in the passage of future changes to the Bylaws. Lets secure that right before the only members left to vote are the friends and relatives of the Freckless Leaders.

Several have questioned the need for a new Constitution before the Bylaws can be rewritten. I would liken it to the need to reconstruct the foundation of a house that has been blown away by storm. There is no scene in reconstructing the bathroom if it does not have a sound foundation to rest on.

Our current Constitution was not written by the Club it was written by the Airstream Corporation when they had a vested interest in the Club as a marketing tool for the sale of Airstreams. We have no obligation to that Corporation and should not be bound by a document that supported their goals. The "Grand American Tour" used to complement the Airstream sales force and thus the history of cash subsidies from Airstream that are no longer forth coming. Lets move on and get our house in order for the benefit of the membership, the last source of funding.

Look out a few years. If things are left to follow the current path of reduced membership and over expenditures the most vulnerable asset of the Club is the HQ. If left to the current mindset there will be reductions in staff and eventually the loss of the facility itself before the Grand American Tour will come to and end. That facility and organizational setup will be almost impossible to recreate without massive amounts of money that just will not be available.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 04:51 PM   #608
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondocker View Post

1. The originator of a motion must accept amendments. So in this case, the IP, as the the originator, would maintain ultimate control over what is voted on.

2. As the originator, the IP is bound to 'pass the gavel' during the discussions on his motion.

3. Unlike in FFA competitions, there will be no truly neutral authority to turn to if the the chair and other officials are acting in cahoots. Hence, the rules will mean what they say they mean.

If amendments are offered and declined by the IP, the delegates are faced with an up or down vote. In order to offer the changes, they would have to make motions of their own (ask Forest how well that works). Without a way to insure that Parliamentary Procedure will be honored, it doesn't matter what the rules are- it is a stacked deck.
Perhaps not neutral, (in fact bias in positive way) 3 if not 4 of the Committee members will be on the floor as delegates, we are familiar with RONR and I assure you all that will be difficult.

Moreover, the committee has had first hand conversations with the IP and believes he has a strong commitment for it's adoption.

If amendments are proposed and discussed they will then be voted upon.

If they are voted in or out by the delegates we move to the next article.

The IP can't override the vote of the delegates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azflycaster View Post
Amendments can be made to the motion. The meeting is chaired by the maker of the motion who will rule if a motion is out of order or not. He can seek the advice of the parliamentarian, who just happens to be the chair of the committee that created the revision.

There are things that can be done if it is believed that the meeting chairman is not acting in an impartial manner. These include appealing the decision of the chair, replacing the chairman of the meeting or calling for an adornment to the meeting. All of these items are covered in Roberts Rules...
Sure, but you're going way out into the land of of remote probabilities to think that will happen.

Dona has a superior working knowledge of the book, the chair will rely upon her knowledge, but bring your copy of RONR with you, I'll have mine.

.




.
__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 05:15 PM   #609
Rivet Master
 
Ed Emerick's Avatar
 
1968 30' Sovereign
1959 18' "Footer"
1954 22' Flying Cloud
Brussels , Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 604
Agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloradobus View Post
Thanks Leo.
All I can say is "Vote No". What a cluster &*$@.
__________________
I'm NOT an old man.............
Ed
54 Flying Cloud
59 Traveler
68 Sovereign
Ed Emerick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 06:40 PM   #610
Rivet Master
 
wkerfoot's Avatar
 
1979 23' Safari
1954 29' Liner
Orange , California
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,667
Since the members of the revision committee have not answered my questions about the revised constitution, I have told my unit president that my vote is no.

And if I sound upset, I am.

Bill
__________________
Bill Kerfoot, WBCCI/VAC/CAC/El Camino Real Unit #5223
Just my personal opinion
1973 Dodge W200 PowerWagon, 1977 Lincoln Continental, 2014 Dodge Durango
1979 23' Safari, and 1954 29' Double Door Liner Orange, CA

http://billbethsblog.blogspot.com/
wkerfoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 06:56 PM   #611
Rivet Master
 
rideair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,223
Nothing changes

Howie,

I love that you’re are so passionate about this club and want to make changes to keep the club going into the future. But here’s “the but” to your last post.

In your words “Do you really think he would have let this go this far only to stand before the members and make a complete ass of himself”

Answer: “NO” for bold face lairs will not, they will lie their way out of something. (Just ask Forrest)

In your words “There is a proposal on the table that would give 1m 1v in the passage of future changes to the Bylaws”.

Correction: Look at the “New Constitution” is keeps the power of writing the “Bylaws” with the “IBT”. So even if every one of the 6000+ members voted for the New Constitution, nothing changes with whom can write and change the “Bylaws”.

That takes us to the last one.

In your words “reduced membership and over expenditures”
Answer: It is not the “Constitution” that has created “most” of the problems over the years with the membership but the WBCCI “Bylaws” and the fact the IBT has given themselves $$$$ for travel, grievances rules out the yang, etc.. etc.. etc… This is all in the “Bylaws” not the Constitution.

Everyone, please read this thing and see who has the power to change were the money spent and power to make the “everyday” rules and you will see the New Constitution does nothing to change it.
__________________
Paul Waddell
rideair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 07:03 PM   #612
Rivet Master
 
RickDavis's Avatar

 
1961 24' Tradewind
1969 29' Ambassador
1970 21' Globetrotter
Jamestown , Tennessee
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,781
If the new constitution passes does that make all the current bylaws null and void? All the pages of how to fly your flag and how to display your badge?
__________________
Rick Davis 1602 K8DOC
61 tradewind, plus a few others
13 Ram 2500 TD
99 Dodge TD 577K miles

RickDavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 07:04 PM   #613
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by rideair View Post

Correction: Look at the “New Constitution” is keeps the power of writing the “Bylaws” with the “IBT”. So even if every one of the 6000+ members voted for the New Constitution, nothing changes with whom can write and change the “Bylaws”.
Paul did you get a copy of the new Bylaws from the Revision committee?
__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 07:18 PM   #614
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickDavis View Post
If the new constitution passes does that make all the current bylaws null and void? All the pages of how to fly your flag and how to display your badge?
No, not until the the new Bylaws are adopted.


.
__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 07:19 PM   #615
Rivet Master
 
wkerfoot's Avatar
 
1979 23' Safari
1954 29' Liner
Orange , California
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,667
Will the new bylaws be distributed to any member who wishes to read them or only a select few?

Bill

Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
Paul did you get a copy of the new Bylaws from the Revision committee?
__________________
Bill Kerfoot, WBCCI/VAC/CAC/El Camino Real Unit #5223
Just my personal opinion
1973 Dodge W200 PowerWagon, 1977 Lincoln Continental, 2014 Dodge Durango
1979 23' Safari, and 1954 29' Double Door Liner Orange, CA

http://billbethsblog.blogspot.com/
wkerfoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 07:21 PM   #616
Rivet Master
 
rideair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,223
Nope

Bob,

I've seen the WBCCI "New Constitution" as posted here back on page 30 or so. As for the new WBCCI "Bylaws", have they been released for review? If so, post them here for all to see please.

I await for the pdf.

Please do not send it to me, but please post here.

Thank You,
__________________

__________________
Paul Waddell
rideair is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
constitution, wbcci


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.