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Old 03-30-2011, 02:10 PM   #533
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I agree Carol,

By the way are going to the International this year, I would really like to meet you?
With luck I will have a job and not be able to attend the International, with no luck I won't have a job and still wont be able to attend the International. But we met at the Can Opener in Florida one year when you were playing music with Joe C. Scroll waaaaay waaaay back, in your memory. See I really don't make ripples in the water, in person.
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Old 03-30-2011, 03:04 PM   #534
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First, I would like to thank the members of the committee who have put a great deal of personal time and sacrifice into developing this document. I was a little apprehensive regarding the rewriting of the entire constitution and I am still not entirely sold on the idea. However, after reading through it several times I find some areas that are really promising. As some others have stated, I assumed that certain issues would be addressed directly, but now I can see evidence of changes to the process of how business within the club can be better handled and we can possibly effect the changes we desire in the future.
Just a few positive changes (IMO) I’ve noticed.

· Possible reduction in the number of members of the IBT, i.e. Areas vs Regions
· Past IP non-voting member of IBT
· The procedure for electing the nominating committee
· Methods for choosing candidate for offices
· Methods for revising bylaws
· Flexibility on holding virtual meetings
· Individual member voting for candidates
· Elimination of the third VP
· Members vote directly for candidates and changes to Bylaws

I don't intend to debate the issues, I'm just making an additional tool available for anyone's use. One of the things that helped me to parse through the articles and the sections was to re-format the document so I could keep track of the changes which had been made. I laid it out in the same format as was posted here on the forum and added an additional column for my comments and questions.
I also changed the font color for the proposed changes to each section. I left the red strike-through font for the deletions to the existing constitution and changed to the font color to blue for the proposed changes to the wording. I tend to lean towards being a visual learner and this helped me to pick out the changes a lot easier. I was extremely careful not to make any mistakes cutting and pasting the pdf which was uploaded last week. I am attaching the worksheet as example. If anyone would like to have this document in Word form (.docx) please let me know and I will forward it to you. I did not include my comments and questions on the worksheet. My hope is that members of my unit can utilize this document to track their comments on the proposed revision constitution. I will be making it available to them on our unit website once I have seen the official proposal on the WBCCI website and have checked my worksheet for accuracy. If any members of the committee would like me to post the Word document here on the forum I can make that available.


20110227ProposedreplacementConstitution[TEW Comments].pdf
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Old 03-30-2011, 03:19 PM   #535
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Kerry,

Thanks for your response.

So “nothing” in the “New Constitution” will fix or begin to solve any of the concerns from the membership in regards to spending, rigidness and control of information. I’m really; really sorry to hear that and I’m sure many of the other members in the WBCCI will be too.

You say in your response “The items that you raise are bylaw issues and will be addressed when the bylaws are revised”. The way I understand the “New Constitution” the “WBCCI By-Laws” are still under the control of the “IBT” and not the “Revision Committee”.

So what authority does the “New Constitution” give the “Revision Committee” to make sure this happens in the future?

The way I understand it that “Authority” will still be with the “IBT”.

Since the “Revision Committee” was considered a “Special Committee” created under the current IP, after the election of the new IBT officers at the International Rally that Committee will cease to exist unless continued by the next WBCCI International President.

Has Barry H. already informed you guys/ladies that he plans to continue this committee?

Even if Barry H. decides to continue the “Revision Committee”, what makes any think the rest of the IBT will release the control of the WBCCI “By-Laws” or allow oversight/auditing by the general membership?

Have they already told you they will?

Have you and others been guaranteed this in writing?
Paul,
I will repeat what Kerry has said, your concerns are very real, but the constitution is not the place to fix Bylaw issues, which need to be addressed after the proposed constitution as amended is accepted.

In a previous post I pointed out that the proposed constitution is just that, a proposal to be submitted to the Delegates for their consideration. The Bylaws article, as written, is in a basic form, which gives the Board the power to enact Bylaws. It does nothing else in the proposal, but if the membership wishes to have more input to the Bylaws then in the review and amendment process the proposed constitution will go through by the Delegates it can be amended to address those concerns. The revision committee considered a number of options for this issue, but in the end felt it was one to be deliberated at the Delegates meeting. I for one would hope that those with the most concern would come with proposed amendments to the Bylaws article that fit into the 1M1V structure of the proposed constitution.

Thank you for your concern and willingness to engage in the discussion.

Tom
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Old 03-30-2011, 03:20 PM   #536
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Proposed revisions

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Originally Posted by Aviator View Post
I may have missed it when I was traveling without WiFi access, but is there a link up yet to the proposed documents? I just looked on the WBCCI website and couldn't fint it as yet.

Thanks.
Forrest posted them earlier:

Quote:
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Here is the Revision Committee's complete proposed replacement for the WBCCI Constitution and Chairman Shafer's Constitution and Bylaws Report (letter of recommendation). Note that the Revised Constitution was not recommended for adoption. Both are lengthy documents.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 20110227 Proposed replacement Constitution.pdf (914.9 KB, 14 views)
File Type: pdf 20110318 C&BC recommendation.pdf (234.3 KB, 15 views)
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Old 03-30-2011, 03:22 PM   #537
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Good Job!

Thank you Tom – very well done.

Your approach is very logical and makes it much easier to see the differences.
The issues within the change process needed to be structured to control the various suggestions that will be forthcoming over the next few weeks.
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Old 03-30-2011, 03:41 PM   #538
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Article XII

The IBT will have total control over the number of new areas. These areas are to be of equal membership. How often will the areas be reorganized? Is the number of members based on the units or the location of the individual members? For those units which cover more than one state, how will they be assigned to areas? Will units in states be split into more than one areas?

I thought that there was a minimum number of areas, but cannot locate it. Can someone point me to the correct section?

Bill
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Old 03-30-2011, 03:43 PM   #539
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Article VII

I agree with the extension of term for the Treasurer, but it is necessary for the Recording Secretary?

Why are the Treasurer and Recording Secretary voting members of the IBT and Executive Committee? It seems to me that these are staff positions and not line positions.

Bill
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Old 03-30-2011, 03:43 PM   #540
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Forrest posted them earlier:
Nuvite,

Thank you for the information regarding the documents posted by Forrest. However, there are a total of 6 documents dealing with the proposal that need to be looked at as they explain many of the questions being asked and were not in the incomplete posting by Forrest. These documents will be available tomorrow or April 1 at the WBCCI web site and have been sent to the Region Presidents today.

My suggestion is to look at these as they are more complete then the documents that were sent out without the supporting documents.

Tom
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Old 03-30-2011, 03:47 PM   #541
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Article XVI

The member caucus is to be "...scheduled during the summer months or at a scheduled International Rally...". Shouldn't it be required that the caucus be at the International Rally to insure the most members attend and participate?

Again, will it be necessary to attend the caucus in person to participate?

Bill
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Old 03-30-2011, 04:00 PM   #542
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Forrest posted them earlier:
Those are not official and should not be relied upon.
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Old 03-30-2011, 04:08 PM   #543
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Nuvite,

Thank you for the information regarding the documents posted by Forrest. However, there are a total of 6 documents dealing with the proposal that need to be looked at as they explain many of the questions being asked and were not in the incomplete posting by Forrest. These documents will be available tomorrow or April 1 at the WBCCI web site and have been sent to the Region Presidents today.

My suggestion is to look at these as they are more complete then the documents that were sent out without the supporting documents.

Tom
I will be glad to look at the complete, "official" documents when they become available, but they are not yet available. I was merely answering Aviator's questions about the source of information that has this thread so a-twitter. . .
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Old 03-30-2011, 04:11 PM   #544
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If they are not official and not to be relied upon, is this entire discussion premature?

Bill

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Those are not official and should not be relied upon.
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Old 03-30-2011, 04:19 PM   #545
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No I'm sure they are likely correct, but the official copy will be published on Wbcci.org tomorrow the last I understood from HQ.

All the regions were emailed at about 8:00 AM today
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Old 03-30-2011, 04:29 PM   #546
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A major part of the concerns I have read for the past few years is that:

1. The WBCCI leaders are insensitive to members' concerns and are only interested in pursuing their personal agendas.

2. It takes years and years to work through the system to get into a leadership position.

3. The leaders control the nominating process and make sure their clones are nominated.

The proposals being debated in this thread since the "constitution" became public seem to touch on some of this, mainly the nominating committee, but not most of it. No matter how good the rest of this document may be, if the leaders are bad, the organization suffers. Tightening up the document to prevent the leaders from doing a bad job helps little if the same leadership continues.

So, are these issues being solved?

I am not going to read this document and suspect not many people will, so discussion on these issues seems timely and necessary. To attract new members, the organization needs to show them they will be heard and have real influence over the leadership.

I have seen it posted several times—something is a "bylaws issue". I have previously explained that commonly bylaws are about the internal governance of the organization including relationships between directors, officers and members and their respective authority. The WBCCI uses the term "constitution" to describe "bylaws" and the term "bylaws" for other things. Anything regulated by the WBCCI "bylaws" can be placed in the "constitution" if the delegates want to. If it's important enough, why not change it? The borders between these documents are fluid. It should also be noted that "bylaws" as normally defined in nonprofit corporations may be amended sometimes by the members, sometimes by the board of directors, and sometimes by both. Sometimes it takes a supermajority of the board and a simple majority of the members voting.

Gene
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