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Old 03-01-2011, 08:18 PM   #267
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Bob 2 questions.

1. If a member sells his AS and continues to be a member can he/she hold an office?

2. Is anyone going to make an effort to notify the MAL's??
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:18 PM   #268
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Yes, I am projecting to the future, if the revised constitution passes as it is now written, how will the 1M1V be utilized to help facilitate members making changes without delegates and what veto power if any will the EC retain? How will elections be conducted? Will members have to be in attendance to deliberate and vote? And how will MALs participate in voting, making motions and holding office? Will their dues no longer include a higher cost penalty to try to divert them into joining a unit?
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:45 PM   #269
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Carol

amendments

The time lines will be shorter than it is now if coming from a unit and steps to do so are now clearly defined to get an amendment to the membership for a vote.

(Region herein after Area)

The Area Board if they deem necessary at an Area meeting can propose amendments.


voting

1M1V will be by ballot to be distributed to the members for their direct vote by mail or authorized electronic means.


.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:50 PM   #270
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Thank you Bob. I am anxious to see the document and to hear others comments too.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:56 PM   #271
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Not my place, unless asked

“Perhaps you can help in your unit as a past Pres, you have what over 100 members, pitch in and stop bitchin”

Bob,

Unlike some “Past IBT Prez’s” I do not try to influence or run the show at our Unit with the current Prez’s and VP’s after my turn in the barrel. If they ask about my thoughts on a subject, I will give them. I “never” tell them what or how to do their job. It is “their job” remember. By doing it this way, new ideas can form, new ways of doing things created, etc… That’s one of the problems with the IBT/EC7 in the first place! Why do you think we are still having the same problems for all these years? Don Shafer is still pushing the MOHO issue after how many years? Answer “5/6” if memory is correct.

Will I voice my views here as a member of the WBCCI “Yes”. Do I ever post my feeling/thoughts to the WDCU message board “No”, for I do not want to influence the membership of the WDCU either way on any subject because as a “Past Prez’s” I do not think it’s right to do so.

Plus trust me on this one you (of all people) don’t want me helping out. You know my feelings on this subject. One word changes “VOTE NO”. I was not and still not a big fan of the “re-write”. There were much better ways of fixing the problems with the club.

The problem with this club is not the Constitution, but the actions of the IBT/EC7 and how they run the club. If one looks at list of problems with WBCCI, the Constitution is at the bottom of the list. Instead of changing the Constitution, why doesn’t the IBT/EC7 not take a red cent in travel dollars, change dress code, make the International Rally more kid friendly, etc.. etc.. etc.. NONE of the changes that will “really” make a difference in the membership and the value one gets from the club will change with a new Constitution.

Let’s think about for a second, do you really think a new member gives a rats*ss about voting, delegates, etc…? (No they see white shirts, red ties, etc..) Do you really think a new member cares that the person carrying the flag does so at a 45 degree angle? (No they expect their kids to have a good time at International) Do you really think a new member to the club cares about 1M1V? (No, they don’t even know why they have to vote on something in a camping club in the first place) Do I need to go on? I think you get and have gotten my point.

Unless the people running the club (IBT/EC7) change their ways, you could re-write the WBCCI Constitution every year and it will not make a difference!

If the current leadership of the WDCU were to ask me, I would recommend a straight “NO” vote because the problem is not the Constitution regardless of what is says.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:59 PM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garry View Post
Bob 2 questions.

1. If a member sells his AS and continues to be a member can he/she hold an office?

2. Is anyone going to make an effort to notify the MAL's??
1.to continue to be a member they can't own an SOB but if I recall if in good standing they can run.

2. there are about 500 Mal's to be notified, good question.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:10 PM   #273
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Howie put the money aside for a moment, if it was done this week it wouldn't appear until I think the May issue of the BB.

And who was it that took a month 1/2 almost two months to "cross T's and dot I's"? Oh yeh, the same guys that say it costs to must $$$ while they get their 100K plus in travel expense this year!

Suck it up Boyz, don't take the cash, have it printed and sent out to the membership. If you start the printing tomorrow, it can be printed and sent out by Friday and in everyones mailbox by next Friday. If you did that, you would save the club 70K just like that! (No Travel $$ -- Printing/Mailing $$ == Lots of CASH)

If there is "REALLY" a will, there is a way.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:49 PM   #274
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Paul that isn't happening, do you have any other ideas to get it out to the members?

On another note

You don't think mail or electronic means of voting is good change?

Do you think 1M1V a good change?

Giving MAL a vote a good change?

.
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:20 PM   #275
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Yes, every Unit should have a copy printed and sent out to their memebrship, send the bill the the WBCCI HQ and that cost comes right off the top of the IBT/EC7 expense money.

Question2. Yes, remember I'm in a unit that already has that (no change needed there)

Question3. From what I understand "One Member only gets One Vote" now (What,do they vote early and vote often in your unit? We only get one vote in mine, you know one member, one vote and then from there did proportional voting based on the numbers, could make a simple change to Constitution for that one or just ask the units to do so, no change required then)

Question4. Yes, and that is why I pushed for them to join the WDCU just to have a voice and save $14.00 when I was Prez. (Could be done with a simple "single" change to the current WBCCI Constitution, no need to rewrite the whole thing for that one!)
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Old 03-02-2011, 05:34 AM   #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rideair View Post

Question2. Yes, remember I'm in a unit that already has that (no change needed there)
So your units bylaws were amended to have mail in ballots and or electronic voting and that was approved by the C&BL Chair...........which one and when.

Quote:
Question3. From what I understand "One Member only gets One Vote" now (What,do they vote early and vote often in your unit? We only get one vote in mine, you know one member, one vote and then from there did proportional voting based on the numbers, could make a simple change to Constitution for that one or just ask the units to do so, no change required then)
Did you or your unit ever make such an amendment?
So you like the delegate system as it is then?

Quote:
Question4. Yes, and that is why I pushed for them to join the WDCU just to have a voice and save $14.00 when I was Prez. (Could be done with a simple "single" change to the current WBCCI Constitution, no need to rewrite the whole thing for that one!)
I think you mean $24.

Paul there are about 600 more MAL's that didn't join WDCU what are you going to do about them without a vote.


You never replied to a MAL holding office, I know you used to be very much in favor or that.
Quote:
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Do I think the "MAL" should have a vote? YES!!!
Do I think there should be a push so the MAL's have a right to vote? YES!!
Paul Waddell
You keep referring to these simple changes to the Bylaws but yet you or your unit have never made a motion to make those changes and your a member for what about 10 years, you were a unit officer for several.

Change doesn't come as easy as you say ....actions speak louder than words. remember Perry?

I'm really starting to think you just like to argue for s&g.



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Old 03-02-2011, 06:20 AM   #277
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I had a conversation last month with an individual that gave me an estimate to print, collate, and mail the New Constitution to every member. That number was about $12,000. It clearly would be less if included in the BB.

A small price to pay for a credible presentation considering what get spent on some of the Clubs more narrowly focused expenditures. Speaking of narrowly focused expenditures. A past member of the WBCCI band was required to arrive several weeks early for the International, practise an hour a day, and play at the international for 4 people to dance. As noted she is no longer a band member.

Lets give up this conversation of cost and "Get Er Done"
I agree. Considering the importance of this , spending whatever is needed to get it into the hands of the members in a timely manner is justified. It could certainly be done for LESS than the cost of kicking out one member, or even hiring a marketing firm.

With proper planning the whole thing could probably have gone in the BB simply by leaving every thing else out for a month and maybe using smaller print. It can also be mailed out using something other than first class.
No matter what method is used some one won't get it, I have missed numerous Blue Berets when traveling when it wasn't on line.. I think the time is fast coming when " I don't have E mail" is no longer a valid excuse for not being informed.

Based on past experience I have little ( actually no)faith in distributing through the region and unit prez's. While some unit officers like Matt will handle it well, many won't and hundreds of people are being involved in doing something that could be handled from one source.
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Old 03-02-2011, 08:33 AM   #278
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I have to disagree. Sendthe thing out electronically as a PDF immediately. For those who can't, locals can turn on a desktop printer and make copy. It's presumably not a book-length document.

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Old 03-02-2011, 08:49 AM   #279
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I do not know the cost of the E Mail system HQ all ready has in place but the cost of E Mailing the membership of the WBCCI is $50.00 using Mail Chimp.

I can't believe anyone, not even the IBT, could come up with an excuse not to do that.
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Old 03-02-2011, 08:53 AM   #280
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I read that the replacement constitution, which is a simplified revision, needs 44 pages. Why 44 pages? The current and official constitution is on line and in the 2011 Membership Directory. It takes up only eight pages. Wasn’t it good enough?

Every member has a hard copy to read, and if not it’s readily available on line.

I read that the authors of the proposed constitution will limit its distribution and ask the Unit Presidents to inform their members. Has the club considered this major change not important enough to make room in the Blue Beret, or send out a special mailing?

Aren’t PowerPoint presentations used to skip over the fine print? They’re fine for an overview, but how many Unit Presidents are knowledgeable enough to present and sell this new product? Do all units have facilities for PowerPoint?

Has the current IP made an official announcement of the proposed constitution, and about its distribution, and about the ratification process in the Blue Beret or any official publication? Where are the official statements from WBCCI HQ?

We have someone here on Airforums, a self-acknowledged unofficial spokesman, acting out ‘his hour upon the stage.’ Why do some enjoy drawing attention to themselves, by making statements and reactionary comments which effectively polarized people on all sides of the issues? Isn’t that doing more harm than good? A lot of unnecessary damage has been done. Someone, a real leader, needs to step in and assess this mess and take corrective action. It will not go away by itself.

Who’s in charge? Why can’t the club put forth a candid and trusted spokesperson?
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