Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-03-2011, 08:45 AM   #321
Rivet Master
 
wheel interested's Avatar
 
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer , Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,080
Blog Entries: 2
NO, my bad and thank you Matt. The information you both gave is very useful. I just want to differentiate between the statements and am desperately trying to imagine how the WBCCI will work without delegates. It's a tough scenereo to wrap my mind around and I must admit I am highly skeptical of that particular proposed change.

I still think we have a better bargaining system in place and if the EC vetos or returns or delays actions by determination or interpretation results will not differ much whether we are individuals or delegates, but for now, the delgate process has methods to circumvent the IBT entirely and pass membership changes, and we were darn close to achieving a great success. I HATE to give that up. And I want to see Forrest's amendment continue and pass giving membership more power to be a checks and balance to the IBT/EC.
__________________
Caroljb



photography
wheel interested is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 08:50 AM   #322
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,011
Images: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested View Post
NO, my bad and thank you Matt. The information you both gave is very useful. I just want to differentiate between the statements and am desperately trying to imagine how the WBCCI will work without delegates. It's a tough scenereo to wrap my mind around and I must admit I am highly skeptical of that particular proposed change.
How about this, everybody talks about the amendment, thereafter, instead of voting on the at that time on the spot a ballot is sent in to HQ, soon after as in 1M1V.

that help?
__________________
Bob


LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 08:58 AM   #323
4 Rivet Member
 
Air Apparent's Avatar
 
Central Florida , Florida
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
Now stop harassing points please.
Don't you mere members understand? You are to "Stand Down" !!!
Air Apparent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 09:04 AM   #324
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,011
Images: 28
I think you miss understand my meaning
__________________
Bob


LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 09:23 AM   #325
Rivet Master
 
wheel interested's Avatar
 
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer , Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,080
Blog Entries: 2
I still am trying to find out what life in the WBCCI will be like after the new Constitution passes if I vote yes to it as is.

As far as your idea of 1M1V by mail or e-mail ballot to be rendered at some point in time after we are given the New Constitution amendment to vote upon (that has been worked on and accepted at the delegates meeting at the International) I think that is a good idea and viable and may address some more of the concerns I have recently read in this thread.

Again for now, my big concern is what will happen (A.D) if we do away with delegates. The rest of the changes all seem to be either good or workable and even redoable if needs be but eliminating a checks and balance (POWER) and a process to bypass the IBT/EC entirely does not seem like a good change to me. It seems to be a step backwards or, at a very generous opinion, sideways. That is the basis of my asking how things will work and having them spelled out for me. I am keeping an open mind but I do have a predeliction for delegates.
__________________
Caroljb



photography
wheel interested is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 09:31 AM   #326
Rivet Master
 
Forrest's Avatar
 
Aurora , Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 645
Images: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
I can't when it does!
No one asked, but it does.
Bob,

You say MALs get to vote, and certainly I accept that was the intent of 1 member 1 vote, but then why is it necessary to specify, A MAL shall possess all the rights and privileges of the club, except the right to vote or hold office in a Unit or Area, but then not specifically state elsewhere that MALs also get to vote Internationally?

If MALs are not listed in a Unit's rollcall, then it is not possible for them to cast a vote in that Unit, or for that matter in an Area. Since it isn't possible, then why codify it?

Maybe the delegates can amend that, but if they don't, MALs won't have a vote - despite your saying to the contrary.

As for SOB, it has been asked - there is even a separate thread on that topic. The committee's revision leaves a huge loophole for members to continue with full rights - voting & holding office - even when they no longer own an Airstream, and instead own SOB.

As for which came first, our "conversation" made it clear that the Bylaws were written first. Certainly, the August Constant Contact email specifies that the committee was a Bylaws Revision. The later Constant Contact specifies that the Committee evolved into a Constitution and Bylaws Committee. These Constant Contact emails go to the Unit Presidents, and not directly to the members. If the Unit President doesn't share then the members don't get the message. The official form of communication with the membership is through the Blue Beret, and I don't recall any invitation there soliciting member input.
__________________
Forrest
Out for coffee!
Forrest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 09:35 AM   #327
Rivet Master
 
rideair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,800
I do have a very simple question:

Why has this thing not been posted on the WBCCi website? Norm slid it across the plate on March 1st. I understand it has to have the blessing of old Don (which we know he'll do before going out to the Unit" by March 20th) but at this point, the document has been given to HQ cannot be changed. So what's the hold up? Put it out for all to see.

We are no more down the road now than we were back many months ago when this thing started in knowing the exact wording of what's in it.

This crap of asking Bob this, that and the other is just that. Until either Bob can response with the "exact" wording, this is meaningless.

We are still being treated like mushrooms. Nothing changed on March 1st.
__________________
Paul Waddell
rideair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 09:37 AM   #328
4 Rivet Member
 
jimmickle's Avatar
 
2000 31' Land Yacht
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 497
When will the new constiitution be on WBCCI.org? I looked yesterday and didn't find it.
jimmickle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 10:07 AM   #329
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,011
Images: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest View Post
You say MALs get to vote, and certainly I accept that was the intent of 1 member 1 vote, but then why is it necessary to specify, A MAL shall possess all the rights and privileges of the club, except the right to vote or hold office in a Unit or Area, but then not specifically state elsewhere that MALs also get to vote Internationally?
A mal without having been a member of a unit before hand would lack the experience of how a unit operates.


Quote:
As for SOB, it has been asked - there is even a separate thread on that topic. The committee's revision leaves a huge loophole for members to continue with full rights - voting & holding office - even when they no longer own an Airstream, and instead own SOB.
It wasn't posted in this thread, I missed it.
If they own an sob as a travel trailer they would not be eligible to be a member.
Only if it is a permanent or semi-permanent location to be used by the members as a vacation facility or as a home.

Quote:
These Constant Contact emails go to the Unit Presidents, and not directly to the members. If the Unit President doesn't share then the members don't get the message. The official form of communication with the membership is through the Blue Beret, and I don't recall any invitation there soliciting member input.
You may want to check with Cindi at HQ on that point, I'm not sure.


.
__________________
Bob


LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 10:10 AM   #330
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,011
Images: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested View Post
I still am trying to find out what life in the WBCCI will be like after the new Constitution passes if I vote yes to it as is.

As far as your idea of 1M1V by mail or e-mail ballot to be rendered at some point in time after we are given the New Constitution amendment to vote upon (that has been worked on and accepted at the delegates meeting at the International) I think that is a good idea and viable and may address some more of the concerns I have recently read in this thread.

Again for now, my big concern is what will happen (A.D) if we do away with delegates. The rest of the changes all seem to be either good or workable and even redoable if needs be but eliminating a checks and balance (POWER) and a process to bypass the IBT/EC entirely does not seem like a good change to me. It seems to be a step backwards or, at a very generous opinion, sideways. That is the basis of my asking how things will work and having them spelled out for me. I am keeping an open mind but I do have a predeliction for delegates.

Carol, I'm trying to reply, but I'm not following your question 100%


.
__________________
Bob


LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 10:13 AM   #331
AIR #8691
 
2006 25' Safari SS SE
Northern , Virginia
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 381
Draw me a picture – I want to see what you mean.

The ideas in these threads are informing and engaging some members in advancing beneficial changes. And that’s good.

If its believed a PowerPoint presentation is helpful as well as a Webinar, than why not include a Flow Chart of the proposed change control process?

Successful organizations use Flow Charts, Org Charts and Time Lines to inform members and identify areas of concern. We can work together to define the stages, the critical paths, understand the process, and use the resulting chart to inform others.

Currently many of us still don’t get the whole picture. Would someone like to accept the challenge and start roughing out a basic Flow Chart?

Perhaps collaborative work on a Flow Chart should not be part of this thread. A new thread can be created if there is interest in such a task.
JStanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 10:23 AM   #332
Rivet Master
 
rideair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,800
So, if I own an SOB MOHO of which I "fulltime" in and consider it my "home" which is semi-permanent in different locations (think FL or Texas) I can still be a member, hold office and become a PIP with full voting rights and a say on how the club runs.

But the guy that owns an Airstream that does not belong to a Unit can not.

Makes since.
__________________
Paul Waddell
rideair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 10:32 AM   #333
Rivet Master
 
RickDavis's Avatar
 
1961 24' Tradewind
1969 29' Ambassador
1970 21' Globetrotter
Jamestown , Tennessee
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,783
These Constant Contact emails go to the Unit Presidents, and not directly to the members. If the Unit President doesn't share then the members don't get the message. "

The quote from Forrest above points out one of the major club communications failure.

In my years of membership I can recall NO communications from the unit prez beyond an occasional non political newsletter and I can not recall any communication from the region level ever.
That is a lot of non communication by a LOT of region and unit Prez's. For all I know the info may never even get to the unit level.

Now that constant contact is available this military style chain of command really needs to go.

Perhaps the information flow is better in other regions, but it is non existent in region 6
__________________
Rick Davis 1602 K8DOC
61 tradewind, plus a few others
13 Ram 2500 TD
99 Dodge TD 577K miles

RickDavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 10:38 AM   #334
Rivet Master
 
Forrest's Avatar
 
Aurora , Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 645
Images: 21
Flow Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JStanley View Post
Would someone like to accept the challenge and start roughing out a basic Flow Chart?

Perhaps collaborative work on a Flow Chart should not be part of this thread. A new thread can be created if there is interest in such a task.
The problem with a flow chart is dependent on how you read the Constitution (how it's written vs how it's interpreted). That said, here are two different interpretations.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf FLOWCHART ONLY, SECTION 2&3.pdf (258.9 KB, 42 views)
__________________
Forrest
Out for coffee!
Forrest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 10:39 AM   #335
Rivet Master
 
Forrest's Avatar
 
Aurora , Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 645
Images: 21
I've created some other flowcharts, but they are not pertinent to this thread. The first page of the PDF is how the C&BC interprets the Constitution. The second page follows the process in the order it is written (thus the headings).
__________________
Forrest
Out for coffee!
Forrest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 10:44 AM   #336
Naysayer
 
Boondocker's Avatar

 
1968 24' Tradewind
Russellville , earth
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,954
Images: 7
Quote:
Show me one single solitary official WBCCI document seeking input. Just one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
Rod the above email wasn’t enough as you stated, below see the 9/17 excerpt from the Presidents Monthly Newsletter distributed via Constant Contact.

Perhaps you missed those emails?
Quote:
These Constant Contact emails go to the Unit Presidents, and not directly to the members. If the Unit President doesn't share then the members don't get the message. The official form of communication with the membership is through the Blue Beret, and I don't recall any invitation there soliciting member input.
Quote:
Show me one single solitary official WBCCI document seeking input. Just one.
__________________
Rodney

Visit my photography and painting website
https://rooseveltfineart.com
Instagram is r.w.roosevelt


Boondocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 10:45 AM   #337
Rivet Master
 
Forrest's Avatar
 
Aurora , Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 645
Images: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
A mal without having been a member of a unit before hand would lack the experience of how a unit operates... If they own an sob as a travel trailer they would not be eligible to be a member.
Only if it is a permanent or semi-permanent location to be used by the members as a vacation facility or as a home.
So, your answer is that MAL's don't get to vote or hold office (even though a MAL might be a former President of a Unit or Region), and Yes, members can own SOB.

The revision doesn't specify that the RV is a motorhome or trailer. It doesn't matter which.
__________________
Forrest
Out for coffee!
Forrest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 10:46 AM   #338
Rivet Master
 
Forrest's Avatar
 
Aurora , Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 645
Images: 21
Rodney,

That is too funny!
__________________
Forrest
Out for coffee!
Forrest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 10:50 AM   #339
Rivet Master
 
wheel interested's Avatar
 
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer , Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,080
Blog Entries: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
Carol, I'm trying to reply, but I'm not following your question 100%.
And probably rightly so. I can't even restate my own question. I am wrestling with the unstated mechanics and the concept of just how changes will be made in the future after (if) this new constitution is passed and we no longer have delegates.

Perhaps a concrete example will aid us in examining the procedure from idea to successful passage and the steps involved.

What will be the formula to make changes in the club (after the new constitution is accepted as written?)

Is that clearer? such as: 1. write a motion; 2. submit it to your unit (or what if you are a MAL?); 3. unit vote; 4. submit the motion to the area president...please continue from there. Also will there be an additional alternative to pass a motion?

We currently have two separate avenues to select from as the Constitution and or By-laws allow for us now to utilize, which is quite a great utility and failsafe for members in case the EC does not approve of the proposed change. Although if you listen to PIP Don S. he thinks it is not necessary and should be eliminated. (Why does that bother me SO VERY MUCH?!) This is the same PIP that would not let Forrest's amendment proceed with his recommendation as Forrest is utilizing exactly that method that Don would like us to believe is of no worth to us as a club and should be stricken from the Constitution/Bylaws. BTW Forrest's amendment would give delegates more power if passed. And look, now Forrest's amendmanet has been delayed because of "procedure" and "voila'" a brand new constitution not only surfaces coincidently but also totally eliminates delegates from the equation. Please don't tell me the New Constitution is an EC punt.
__________________
Caroljb



photography
wheel interested is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 11:13 AM   #340
Rivet Master
 
DanB's Avatar
 
1970 23' Safari
2005 30' Classic
1986 31' Sovereign
Lorain , Ohio
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,645
Images: 9
Just do we are all clear, this is the CURRENT constitution wording.


C. Regular Members, who were in good standing when they sold their recreational vehicle manufactured by Airstream, Inc., may, upon request, retain their membership as Regular Members, provided such members do not own another brand of recreational vehicle, except such Regular Members may own another brand of recreational vehicle that is parked in a permanent or semi-permanent location to be used by the members as a vacation facility or as a home. (6/29/96)

Bob, I think you said this section is being deleted. What wording is proposed to allow for a similar circumstance?
__________________
DanB
________________________________
Proud Member of the Wally Byam Airstream Club #24260

www.campnova.com

The “Ohio Airstreamer -- Informal forum for weekend camping” thread.
DanB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
constitution, wbcci


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.