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Old 03-01-2011, 11:20 AM   #241
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Bob,

So the other 2000 members, plus or minus, must rely on their unit presidents to provide them with the revised constitution? No notice in the Blue Beret, the official communication of the WBCCI?

Bill
Bill

Yours is an interesting comment on what has been said to date.

Those members with an E Mail address will receive notification. The IP has stated that the complete Constitution will not be printed in the BB.

Given that less than 50% of the members that have E Mail will ever open the E Mail there needs to be a concerted effort to have a significant notification printed in the BB that a New Constitution is being presented and information delineating how a member can obtain a link to it or a copy.

We have to except the fact that 10% of a given group will NEVER get the news but there is no reason why reasonable effort should not be exerted to reach the other 90%.

I will E Mail the IP with this thought and urge others wanting to see reasonable efforts put forth do the same.
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Old 03-01-2011, 11:29 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by wkerfoot View Post
Bob,
So the other 2000 members, plus or minus, must rely on their unit presidents to provide them with the revised constitution? No notice in the Blue Beret, the official communication of the WBCCI?
Bill
For the most part the unit president needs to make sure the info is out there.

I'm not saying that, I'm sure there will be an announcement in the BB, it has a long lead time?????
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Old 03-01-2011, 11:43 AM   #243
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Given that less than 50% of the members that have E Mail will ever open the E Mail there needs to be a concerted effort to have a significant notification printed in the BB that a New Constitution is being presented and information delineating how a member can obtain a link to it or a copy.
Howie, why not tell us how you know this info?


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Old 03-01-2011, 01:18 PM   #244
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I think Howie is close to the mark when it comes to email. Let's all remember that those WBCCI members (and non-members) who are active on Airforums are the exception rather than the rule. It is easy for us to forget this since it is a way of life for us. Many members of any organization (with the possible exception of a tech type organization) do not check their email frequently, nor when they check do they follow links such as the one which will be sent.

With an issue as large as this is for our club and its membership, I think it is critical that everyone from the top down to fellow members do everything to make our fellow WBCCI members aware of the proposed constitutional changes and encourage them to be involved. Let's make the upcoming unit meetings the best attended in years!
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:55 PM   #245
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Norm Beu asked the Region 3 Unit Presidents (he was in Sarasota) to present a "PowerPoint Presentation" to their members, explaining the changes.

I have scheduled 3 sessions at our next Rally for that purpose. Our members will be notified by our unit newsletter (being written as we speak). We have a business meeting at this rally. I will ask for direction to vote their wishes "as I understand them". I will continue to solicit input until the Delegates Meeting. If our membership requests, we can call an additional business meeting in May, but they must be notified 30 days before the meeting!
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:03 PM   #246
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Matt,

Your post seems to indicate that the unit presidents are to prepare this presentation. How can they do that when the new constitution has not been distributed. I was told at the Hobo Rally that the club would prepare this presentation and it would be sent to the unit presidents.

From what I heard, I expect the presentation to be why the new document should be approved with no dissenting view.

Bill

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbmbstreamer View Post
Norm Beu asked the Region 3 Unit Presidents (he was in Sarasota) to present a "PowerPoint Presentation" to their members, explaining the changes.

I have scheduled 3 sessions at our next Rally for that purpose. Our members will be notified by our unit newsletter (being written as we speak). We have a business meeting at this rally. I will ask for direction to vote their wishes "as I understand them". I will continue to solicit input until the Delegates Meeting. If our membership requests, we can call an additional business meeting in May, but they must be notified 30 days before the meeting!
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:06 PM   #247
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My number of 50% is a very conservative number based on personnel experience of the mass e mailing I did relating to the Defendwally suit. That number was actually much lower as reported by the "Open Rate Report" reported by the sending agent. I do not have an actual number at my finger tips, but it was under 20%.

If you have ever studied marketing you might remember the rule of thumb relating to individuals passing your companies exhibit booth. For ever 1,000 people that pass your booth, 100 will see the booth, 10 will have the ability to buy, and 1 will buy.

My old boss often said you can tell individually everyone and still only 90% will get the word

It would be interesting to know if Headquarters gets an "Open Rate Report" on any mass e mailings they send out. It will not be anywhere as high as most would expect.

It is a numbers game and will have to be marketed, by those supporting the changes, with repeated notifications because you can be sure the opposition will be doubling their efforts.
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:15 PM   #248
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The slides will come from Jackson Center. I will present them. I will ask for input and provide my opinion. If I am aware of proposed changes from this Forum, I will ask for feedback on those as well. Finally, I will ask if there are changes my members would like to see.

I hope the exchange on this forum will be open and informative. That will help me decide how to vote on proposed changes and on the "perfected" amendment.
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:48 PM   #249
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From what I heard, I expect the presentation to be why the new document should be approved with no dissenting view.
Bill
Since I'm on the Revision committee which is making the documentation for the presentation I will say that is incorrect.
Kerry is leading that task of the power point, I never heard any comment to that effect.
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:03 PM   #250
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Bob,

My reason for the statement about no dissenting view, is based on prior history of amendments and not based on any discussion. Sorry I misspoke, but there is a lot of that going around.

So there will be argument for and against the proposed revision? Who will be writing the pro and the con? Two different people, I hope.

Bill

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Since I'm on the Revision committee which is making the documentation for the presentation I will say that is incorrect.
Kerry is leading that task of the power point, I never heard any comment to that effect.
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:09 PM   #251
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It is the Unit's job to ensure their membership has the information they need to provide direction to their delegate. It is the responsibility of each delegate to solicit input, ensure they understand direction from their unit, and vote in accordance with the direction they receive.

It is unfortunate that some units will not allow their delegate to vote yes on a revised amendment...but I'm sure that direction will be given in some cases.

Whether you are for or against SOB Motorhome membership, whether or not you supported SaveWally, whether or not you voted for Leo, you have to admit the club needs changes to the organizational structure!

If we don't reach a consensus and make constructive change in DuQuoin, we have missed a great opportunity! Please keep an open dialogue and ensure your unit allows improvements to the proposed amendment.

It takes 2/3 vote to approve!
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:09 PM   #252
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From what I heard, I expect the presentation to be why the new document should be approved with no dissenting view.
Realistically, that's the only way it's likely to pass. Suppose all the delegates show up for this Constitutional Convention with their powdered wigs, ready for sober deliberation--as the "deliberative assembly" they are--and mindful that history is watching them.

As Rideair has pointed out, given the 20 minutes we are told has been budgeted for each of 18 sections, that gives each of the 100+ delegates approximately 15 seconds each to speak. Some deliberation.

Or, will the delegates meeting run on for days? I suppose that's a possibility. Not looking forward to it.
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:17 PM   #253
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I had one knowledgeable person estimate 2 days for the delegates meeting. Sounds about right. Hope they budgeted for extra coffee!
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:47 PM   #254
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Bob,
So there will be argument for and against the proposed revision? Who will be writing the pro and the con? Two different people, I hope.

Bill
Bill we will explain the reasoning and basis for the changes it's not going to be a pro/con type of presentation.

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I had one knowledgeable person estimate 2 days for the delegates meeting. Sounds about right. Hope they budgeted for extra coffee!
We don't expect more than 5-8 Articles being subject to debate at the delegates meeting, not all 18.


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Old 03-01-2011, 05:47 PM   #255
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Types of motorhomes are unlikely to be in the new document—it would attract too much attention.

The important thing is power—

who has it,

who can change things?

are members of the ruling group self perpetuated?

is there functional democracy? and,

can members get things changed without the changes being obstructed?

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Old 03-01-2011, 05:52 PM   #256
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who can change things?
Not you
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Old 03-01-2011, 06:35 PM   #257
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Frank when do you sleep, reading old threads all night posting at at 4:30 in the morning.........you need a hobby
Some of us have a job Bob. Frank's Trailer Works starts the day at 6am...
What I think you meant to say was "you need one less hobby."
You should read some of those threads Bob, wanta talk about flip flopping!!!!
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Old 03-01-2011, 06:40 PM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

Types of motorhomes are unlikely to be in the new document—it would attract too much attention.

The important thing is power—

who has it,

who can change things?

are members of the ruling group self perpetuated?

is there functional democracy? and,

can members get things changed without the changes being obstructed?

Gene
Gene brings up some very pertinent points. If the balance of power remains with the Executive Committee, the motorhome issue would not have to be addressed in the new constitution but could possibly be allowed with greater ease depending upon the answers to the questions he has just raised.

Though Gene may not be a member of the WBCCI, currently, I hope you will speak on the subject Bob. His comments are insightful and will only benefit us in their examination. The more we look at issues and the more perspectives we gain the more we arm ourselves with the tools to make best choices.

You mentioned some time back that there would be 1 Member 1 Vote and that the delegate status is being considered for elimination. That would preclude the procedure and all intiatives such as Forrest's amendment of the units (membership) would it not?

Can you tell us what features replace that and other processes that are revised within the club for it's operation and the handling of new business? (change) Beyond the laundry list of various initial change touted with this document, we want to insure that we will have a very workable, successful and member friendly method of bringing about additional change in the future without the typical road blocks at the bottleneck and chokehold of the IBT/EC level that we have regularly been experiencing.
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Old 03-01-2011, 06:51 PM   #259
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Pushing the cost down!

Not trying to be a “Naysayer” but I find the policy of the Norm forming a committee to “re-write” a WBCCI Constitution (when only a few areas of the existing one needed fix) to then say it will be sent out via email (50% of the members have email, look at Howie’s stats, leaving the other 50% in the dark, to find out on their own, etc..) to then say it’s “For the most part the unit president needs to make sure the info is out there.” to pin this job on the Unit Prez’s and make them get the information out (the 44 page document) because of the “cost” to place it in the Blue Beret is to high (so let’s push the cost down the Units that don’t have a million bucks in the bank and can’t afford to pay their leaders 100K plus in travel expense) is just appalling!

So let think about this for a second.

I’m Joe member that does not have email, but I saw in the BB about this new Constitution thing. Should I expect my Unit to create a 44 page Unit news letter telling me all about it, mail it out at major $$$? One might say, “Well Joe, you need to go to the Unit meeting where they are going to discuss this issue”. OK, So, once again it’s up to my Unit to cover the cost of printing up “X” numbers of copies for every Unit member as a handout? When for some Units 44 pages is more than “ALL” their new letters “combined” for the year! What if I can’t make the meeting?? How do I get a copy??

How about this idea, Why doesn’t Norm and the rest of the bunch pushing this thing not take a red cent in travel reimbursement this year and use that cash to print the thing up and send it out to the membership like they should. The arrogance of these people never ends!

I guess, I’m lucky to be a member of a Unit that states up front everything is done online so we will not have to eat that cost.
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Old 03-01-2011, 06:57 PM   #260
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FYI - I will present the power point in 3 sessions and post the changes, as we do with our Business Meeting Minutes. I will NOT pay for 44 pages copied for the 40 or 50 units represented at our Business Meeting. I WILL discuss the proposal for as long and as often as any member wants to do so. Not a big cost to do it this way.
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