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Old 02-17-2011, 04:23 PM   #127
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Wow Mistral Blue,


I see how things are, they are allowed to take the better part of 6-7 months to write the thing and you're allow less than 2-3 months to fully understand the changes, educate your unit on the changes (good/bad/fair) get a vote from your unit membership (which the WDCU allowed up to June 1st), instruct your delegate(first find one willing to do the job) on what they can/cannot do in the voting.

Ya, seems fair to me!
SOS
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Old 02-17-2011, 04:37 PM   #128
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If you vote yes the members will be in power!

I wonder where they'll hide the MOHO exception in those 45 pages. You'll need a lawyer to find it.... Just vote yes. No need to think for yourselves SOS
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Old 02-17-2011, 09:02 PM   #129
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I am so bummed! It seems like I have been reading this for weeks and still no constitutional documents.

When are we going to be allowed to review said document? Is there a publish/release date/deadline? Is there any real process or plan to get this into the hands of the membership, so that we (the paying people) can perform our diligence and research without time constraint/duress?

I hope to see this soon so that it does not look like a planned last minute ram it through before anyone can read it process.
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Old 02-18-2011, 08:15 AM   #130
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I am so bummed! It seems like I have been reading this for weeks and still no constitutional documents.

When are we going to be allowed to review said document?
Hear, Hear! Even if one accepts at face value the assertion that the document requires final review and vetting, three very large questions remain that could and should be clearly answered immediately.

First: What is the fatal flaw in the current document?
Two: Does this flaw require redress by July, and what would happen if it is not?
Third: In broad terms, what are the goals of the new document?

If one assumes good faith on the part of the actors, there is no reason that these three questions cannot not addressed today with fully articulated explanations. The longer that these are not discussed the less tenable the assumption of good faith becomes.
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Old 02-18-2011, 08:30 AM   #131
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First: What is the fatal flaw in the current document?
Two: Does this flaw require redress by July, and what would happen if it is not?
Third: In broad terms, what are the goals of the new document?
.
I can imagine someone with over 4,000 post has not read lengthily discussions of the Fatal Flaws of the current Constitution. Fiscal responsibility and abuse of power leap to mind.

You may be right that the timing tends to give the appearance of Short Notice. However those interested in change already know from passed discussions here on the Forum and over time at local unit meetings what needs to be changed. It will not take those that are interested to determine if the New Constitution meets those needs.

The goals are to correct the topics of the above mentioned historical discussions.
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:11 AM   #132
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However those interested in change already know from passed discussions here on the Forum and over time at local unit meetings what needs to be changed. It will not take those that are interested to determine if the New Constitution meets those needs.
HowieE,

Could you please read this paragraph over and edit if necessary?

Are you saying that those who are not interested should decide whether the new constitution meets the club's needs?
.
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:48 AM   #133
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HowieE,

Could you please read this paragraph over and edit if necessary?

Are you saying that those who are not interested should decide whether the new constitution meets the club's needs?
.
You are correct. That sentence should read. It will not take those that are interested IN Change LONG to determine if the New Constitution meets those needs.

Unfortunately as with any election those who are not interested most likely will not discuss or vote. I trust it will be a heated discussion among those that have posted hear.
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:53 AM   #134
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I can imagine someone with over 4,000 post has not read lengthily discussions of the Fatal Flaws of the current Constitution. Fiscal responsibility and abuse of power leap to mind.

You may be right that the timing tends to give the appearance of Short Notice. However those interested in change already know from passed discussions here on the Forum and over time at local unit meetings what needs to be changed. It will not take those that are interested to determine if the New Constitution meets those needs.

The goals are to correct the topics of the above mentioned historical discussions.
My point is that the Leadership needs to speak to these issues, as opposed to mere members.
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:19 AM   #135
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You are correct. That sentence should read. It will not take those that are interested IN Change LONG to determine if the New Constitution meets those needs.

Unfortunately as with any election those who are not interested most likely will not discuss or vote. I trust it will be a heated discussion among those that have posted hear.
OK--that makes more sense.

A couple of observations, though,

1. The devil is always in the details, and it doesn't sound like we are going to get all the details, because we are being told the new, improved bylaws will not be published (or, according to the I3VP, even written) until after the new, improved constitution is approved.

2. My own experience of several years at unit business meetings (two different units) is that there is an amazing lack of unanimity even within units. So I wouldn't bet that the new, improved constitution is going to have easy sledding at the unit level.
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:28 AM   #136
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My point is that the Leadership needs to speak to these issues, as opposed to mere members.
At the moment they are in no better position to speak intelligently on it because they have not yet see it in a finished form. I trust there will be extensive comments but most of those comments will not be presented here since the majority of the Leadership does not post to this Forum.

The comments will most likely flow down through to the units via Regional officers.

Those of us reading here have the advantage of early misinformation from a few with an agenda. Their hope is to convince as many members as possible, before the fact, and hope that those members will remain loyal to a negative position without doing proper investigation once the New Constitution is available.
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:57 AM   #137
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because we are being told the new, improved bylaws will not be published (or, according to the I3VP, even written) until after the new, improved constitution is approved.


.
John, you love to take out of context your statements.

I already told you the new Bylaws were written, I have first hand knowledge of that, the the I3VP may not, the fact is they were!
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:00 AM   #138
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At the moment they are in no better position to speak intelligently on it because they have not yet see it in a finished form.
Are we to believe this committee spontaneously formed and had no direction from the leadership? Really?
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:16 AM   #139
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Are we to believe this committee spontaneously formed and had no direction from the leadership? Really?
Yes you are, really.

Yes, there was no direction from anyone, we were on our own.
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:25 AM   #140
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Yes you are, really.

Yes, there was no direction from anyone, we were on our own.
Holly bat****! If correct, that is about the most bizarre thing about the club I have heard in my life.
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