WBCCI Name Change Vote. How many miles?

[65GT]

I'm lucky that my unit routinely meets just 20 miles from where I live. I was surprised to hear Wheel Interested has to drive three hours round trip to attend a unit luncheon.

That raises an interesting question. If you need to attend your unit's luncheon or rally (where the spring business meeting is held), how far will you have to drive round trip to exercise your right to vote on this name change?

[Leipper]

This is a rather misleading poll question because WBCCI doesn't work this way. Your Unit should be a circle of friends with whom you communicate your ideas and opinions in various ways over time. As an individual, you vote for officers. As a circle of friends, a delegate, a representative, is selected who can do the official meeting thing to represent the Unit as a whole. A circle of friends does not ignore the views of one of its members just because they can't show up once or twice at a formal gathering.

If you have to drive somewhere yourself to vote it indicates a whole series of failures in both informal and formal processes. Things should never get that far and if that is a factor, the real question is what failed, what really failed, to bring it to that point.

[streamer23]

Being situated a couple of thousand miles from my unit I voted less than 25 miles because I just have to go to my living room to vote.

[wahoonc]

Our unit is one of the smaller ones and is unfortunately not too computer literate. We usually can only make 2-3 events a year tops. There are 3-4 units in our area, but because of where we live the average drive is 60+ miles one way to the central meeting places. Our work schedule at this time in our lives is pretty brutal and our jobs keep us on the road 50 weeks out of the year. But we are slowly but steadily headed for an early retirement at which time we will become more active in a WBCCI unit, and will take our computer and graphic arts skills with us to the unit level. I firmly believe that as the "old guard" moves on you will see changes, they aren't going to happen overnight but they are happening: Proof of Point look at Sierra Nevada, Denver, WDCU and South Carolina. I am sure there are more that I am not aware of, these are just some that I have had interaction with. It maybe that we will have to travel a bit to be in a unit that has an activity level we like, but isn't that what my Airstream is for

Aaron

[Stefrobrts]

Our unit sends out ballots. You fill them out at home and send them in, though not everyone can be bothered to do so. So you don't have to be present at the meeting at all. Because our unit covers a large area, sometimes business meetings are in Portland, sometimes they are in Bend, sometimes they are in Tillamook. The meetings are always well publicized in the newsletter and the minutes are printed in the newsletter afterwards. Seems to me this is just basic stuff you do to keep a far-flung group informed.

[65GT]

Originally Posted by Leipper

This is a rather misleading poll question because WBCCI doesn't work this way. Your Unit should be a circle of friends with whom you communicate your ideas and opinions in various ways over time. As an individual, you vote for officers. As a circle of friends, a delegate, a representative, is selected who can do the official meeting thing to represent the Unit as a whole. A circle of friends does not ignore the views of one of its members just because they can't show up once or twice at a formal gathering.

What allowances are made within a units rules for something to be so informal? In a hypothetical case, if your unit is made up of as many as 200 members, it would truly be difficult to say you have a circle of friends. You might have 20-30 people that you have semi-regular contact with, but what about the other 170? While you might know the opinion or feelings of 10 of 30 that can't make it to semi-annual business meeting, who speaks for the 170 that are both mileage, contact, or situation challenged?

I believe as an individual you will vote for or against this name change. Not one member should allow that to happen by delegate without their own personal vote cast, counted, and applied as a percentage of the whole. No one in attendance at a business meeting should then be allowed to take that percentage breakdown and translate that into a solid YES or NO vote for the ballot tally at national.

What rules are in place in EVERY unit that assures ALL unit members are aware of the action items that come up at semi-annual business meetings? If you don't provide each individual member with the issues, the DETAILS, the action items, and the opportunity to vote on them regardless of their location or circumstance, then what demographic of a unit gets represented as the total unit vote cast by a delegate at national?

How could at-large members be left in the dark for fifty years with no opportunity to vote? That the club "doesn't have a way to count them" so they better join a unit, quickly.

I believe the poll is dead on accurate. YOUR unit might make sure that every single member is counted in their thoughts by making sure they all have at least the opportunity to vote at their leisure, but with roughly 140 or so units total my guess is MOST operate in a vacuum. Be there to learn about the action items. Be there to get a mostly one-sided view on an action item. Be there to vote. If you’re not, you’re forgotten.

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[65GT]

Originally Posted by streamer23

Being situated a couple of thousand miles from my unit I voted less than 25 miles because I just have to go to my living room to vote.

PRICELESS!

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[Leipper]

"What allowances are made within a units rules for something to be so informal?"

None. A circle of friends does not engage in confrontational engagement as a normal course of events. A formal vote at a meeting becomes just an official stamp of what is known and agreed upon already.

The whole idea of debate and all that Robert's Rules stuff is, in essence, a method for achieving consensus. The plain truth is that, in effective organizations, floor debate is mostly just ceremony and symbolism because the issue has been hashed out and everyone's views have been discussed in less formal situations. A final vote is one which all can accept as representing the desires of the group as a whole and they can do so because they have both talked and listened as friends discussed the matter.

In small groups such as WBCCI Units, there is usually no formal proxy process because those who attend the formal vote are voting for and with friends and their views in mind. If this is not the case, the Unit has deeper problems that voting will not solve. (an example is the name change brouhaha)

But yes, many bylaws provide for voting, especially in important policy matters, by a means to accomodate members not present. This is a standard provision in most recommended bylaws (but I haven't checked the blue book on this recently)

Those who engage in confrontation and anger politics offend and alienate those who would otherwise engage and listen and learn. i.e. they loose arguments where it matters most.

[GT1963]

Bryan you have some good points - in that within a circle of friends communication and resolutions on directions and areas to have fun is known - or understood and not questioned.

This is great when the group whether it be small or large is well represented. But does not work when only pockets of members can get together periodically and those pockets of friends are different each time.

With any group or organization - there has to be at some point - a formal process to ensure that "business" is taken care of - when fees are collected it then becomes a formal process - and with the payment of fees there is a minimal return for the investment.

If the groups don't need the formality then why join in the first place? When you can meet where ever and whenever you want without all the fuss and muss. - But to enjoy some other larger events such as the International, Caravans and other organized Rallies - this takes more than a few people meeting around a kitchen table. It takes order, and communication - and some resemblance of a formal process to keep ideas and ideals on track.

GT65 to answer your question - our unit has the radius of the entire province of Ontario - our Spring Meeting could represent a 10 minute ride for one member and a 10+ hour for another. Although effort is made to try and make it central - our trip to vote in the spring will be 3-4 hours depending on trafic.

Our Unit constitution does not allow Proxy Voting and there is, however, an opportunity to vote by Mail Ballot - but only if requested and must be deemed necessary by the Executive Board.

But the most important issue to this situation will be communication. How can any member vote on something if they are not provided with the rationale, the background or the necessity for a particular vote in the first place.

The funny thing is when spring comes - the question will be what information have we been provided via our Unit Presidents to inform us of the rational for any item for that matter, to be voted on? Will we all be expected to take what ever is printed in the Blue Beret between then and now as the direction and rationale in which to make our decision?

Or will the IBT take the time to prepare a thorough rationale for their decision to send "any" of their motions for Delegates to consider.

Something to keep in mind. We at the bottom look to the Delegate(Unit President) for Direction - the Delegate(Unit President) looks to the IBT (via their Region President) for Direction - if direction or rationale for actions does not come from the top - then we have to make our own assumptions and direction from the bottom...

Right now the best thing we can all do is communicate to our friends - we don't know really why and have not been given any information on rationale - but this is what is on the table and how it got there and this spring we will cast our individual votes to determine how our Delegate will vote at the International Meeting.

[65GT]

I'm guessing either your unit is small enough that you know them all, or your entire unit is present at your business meetings. If neither is the case then surely your unit goes by the name Utopia...

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[wheel interested]

Information and voting has to be a right of the club members.

As it stands now, if someone lives out from the central region or cannot attend a meeting or rally either because of distance, weather, time or health and yes even an inclination not to attend, has no vote, in many circumstances and units. Members at large have no vote either? Why is this?

What's the big deal about moving forward with voting by mail or internet? What would be the eventuality? Could it be that people would just get together for fun camping and association and the officers wouldn't have any opportunity for flag ceremonies or members to "preside" over?

[SierraBreeze]

As to a unit being a circle of friends. I thought that was one of the main purposes of WBCCI rallies and activities. Isn't one of the frequent complaints about rallies that newcomers feel excluded, not welcome and often don't come back because of those feelings. Seems like a contradiction here. On the one hand you want the friendliness and on the other you say it isn't possible or too difficult. The size of the unit is an excuse. It is the attitude and behaviors that make the difference as well as the efforts to offer a variety of communication and participation methods. Size may make things a little more challenging but it isn't and doesn't have to be a barrier.

Me, I am really looking forward to going to the first rally of the year with all my Airstream friends. I know our Unit will do whatever it can to keep those who can't be there in person, informed in a variety of methods and will do it's best to share the rally with them one way or the other. Over the course of the year we know we will see most of them at one or more rallies as well as new and potential members. We all do our best to make each and everyone welcome and included in our circle of Airstream friends.

As to the namechange, I know our unit will make sure each indivdiual member has an opportunity to express his/her views and when the time comes, to vote. This will include both informal and formal processes as outlined in our bylaws. I know that when our delegate goes to the meeting in June they will be representing the position of all our members.

[65GT]

Originally Posted by SierraBreeze

As to a unit being a circle of friends. I thought that was one of the main purposes of WBCCI rallies and activities. Isn't one of the frequent complaints about rallies that newcomers feel excluded, not welcome and often don't come back because of those feelings. Seems like a contradiction here. On the one hand you want the friendliness and on the other you say it isn't possible or too difficult.

Like I said, if your unit is so small that every member is in constant contact with each other -- that every member is informed and counted on all the issues -- then count your blessings -- you've actually achieved utopia! I don't think you could count the number of units on one hand that have achieved that status in the rest of this club. Maybe International should be doing a case study on your unit to see exactly how its done -- really! Apparently your membership has it going on -- you should all feel REALLY lucky...

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