View Poll Results: Do you support the WBCCI's current plans to rebadge an SOB Class "A" motor home as an
Yes, I do support this. 26 10.57%
No, I do not support this. 220 89.43%
Voters: 246. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-23-2007, 02:52 PM   #99
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Incomprehensible!

How can the leaders of Wally's club, my club, your club, lead this club in something that is not an Airstream?

I don't want them to leave WBCCI. I just want my leaders to be in an Airstream. Is that to much to expect? Am I missing something?

I'd even accept them buying some old, forgotten '77 Argosy24 for two hundred bucks and using that as their connection to the club. But it has got to be some kind of Airstream doesn't it? Please help me. I just don't get it.

They want to lead the WBCCI and drive a Mandalay?
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Old 01-23-2007, 05:44 PM   #100
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Follow the Money

I think you all are missing the key rea$on$ these folks want to stay in leadership positions, and it isn't because they love Airstreams...

From the Blue Book:
"International Officers (President, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Vice Presidents, Secretary and Treasurer) and
Immediate Past President, will be reimbursed for attendance at official WBCCI activities and
Airstream activities where deemed necessary by the International President. No more than one
(1) member of the Executive Committee may be reimbursed for travel to the same rally unless
their attendance is specifically requested by the President of WBCCI. Region Officers
(President, 1st and 2nd Vice Presidents) will be reimbursed only for attendance at official
WBCCI activities within their Region, or at Airstream activities when requested by the
International President, with the exception of the International Board of Trustees meetings as set
forth in paragraph 1 above. (6/21/89)
a. International President $11,500.00 plus one-way travel expenses to Board of Trustee
meetings, other than those above, based on a budget submitted to the Treasurer prior to July
1, for approval of the Executive Committee on or before July 5. Claims will be submitted
directly to Headquarters. (7/5/04)
b. International First Vice-President $7,000.00 plus one-way travel expenses to Board of
Trustee meetings, other than those above, based on a budget submitted to the Treasurer
prior to July 1, for approval of the Executive Committee on or before July 5. Claims will
be submitted directly to Headquarters. (7/5/04)
c. International Second Vice-President $6,700.00 plus one-way travel expenses to Board of
Trustee meetings, other than those above, based on a budget submitted to the Treasurer
prior to July 1, for approval of the Executive Committee on or before July 5. Claims will
be submitted directly to Headquarters. (7/5/04)
d. International Third Vice President $6,500.00 plus one-way travel expenses to Board of
Trustee meetings other than those above, based on a budget submitted to the Treasurer
prior to July 1, for approval of the Executive Committee on or before July 5. Claims will
be submitted directly to Headquarters. (7/5/04)
e. International Treasurer $3,300.00 plus traveling expenses to and from Board of Trustees
meeting, other than those above, based on a budget submitted to the Treasurer prior to July
1, for approval at the Executive Committee Meeting on or before July 5. Claims will be
submitted directly to Headquarters. (7/5/04)
Recording Secretary $3,300.00 plus traveling expenses to and from Board of Trustees
meeting, other than those above, based on a budget submitted to the Treasurer prior to July
1, for approval at the Executive Committee Meeting on or before July 5. Claims will be
submitted directly to Headquarters. (7/5/04)
g. Immediate Past President $900.00 plus traveling expenses to and from Board of Trustees
meeting, other than those above, based on a budget submitted to the Treasurer prior to July
1, for approval at the Executive Committee Meeting on or before July 5. Claims will be
submitted directly to Headquarters. (7/5/04)
h. Region President $1,400.00. In addition, Regional Presidents shall receive reimbursement
for traveling expenses on a variable allotment of $40.00 for each Unit in the Region and for
traveling expenses to and from the IBT meeting, other than those above, on the basis of a
submitted budget to the Treasurer prior to July 1 for approval at the Executive Committee
meeting on or before July 5. Claims will be submitted directly to Headquarters. (7/5/04)
i. Region Vice Presidents $725.00. In addition, Region Vice Presidents shall receive
reimbursement for traveling expenses on a variable allotment of $20.00 for each unit in the region."
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Old 01-23-2007, 08:04 PM   #101
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Are you happy about how your leadership is spending your dues money?

WBCCI, who needs them?
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Old 01-23-2007, 09:25 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airstream25
Are you happy about how your leadership is spending your dues money?

WBCCI, who needs them?
(1) NO!

(2) The question should read: IBT, who needs them? Thor

(3) Gimme back WBCCI
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Old 01-23-2007, 09:36 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistral blue

(3) Gimme back WBCCI
Bingo - I am sure the MOHO proposal would make Wally's sister roll in her grave.
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Old 01-24-2007, 10:06 AM   #104
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Wally Crying

Why is Wally Crying?
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Old 01-24-2007, 02:18 PM   #105
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Quote:
Because he needs to find a new club to join. His vision has been lost!
In these forums, maybe - there are a lot of examples from a few folks who want demographic based clubs and virtual clubs and politics and propaganda and intolerance and other such things.

But out in the wild, that's where the spirit of Wally Byam lives. Attending rallies, getting out in the RV, seeing new places, making new friends, being respectful of others (and for reality).

No, Wally's not crying. Its a handful of folks who seem bitter and angry because others won't toe their view of the world who seem to be in tears. The rest of us are out camping and seeing new things and making new friends.

Now the question is: why is there more than one thread with the same posts? Why are they all full of complaints and accusations and allegations and innuendo and bitter angry people? When the major players have no direct complaint what is it that creates such a motivation to spew this stuff all over these forums? Why doesn't the code of ethics of the WBCCI seem to be any guide? Why isn't this effort towards getting out in their Airstream RV and seeing the world and meeting new friends?
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Old 01-24-2007, 03:34 PM   #106
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hear, hear. A voice out of the wilderness.
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Old 01-24-2007, 03:56 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leipper
In these forums, maybe - there are a lot of examples from a few folks who want demographic based clubs and virtual clubs and politics and propaganda and intolerance and other such things.

But out in the wild, that's where the spirit of Wally Byam lives. Attending rallies, getting out in the RV, seeing new places, making new friends, being respectful of others (and for reality).

No, Wally's not crying. Its a handful of folks who seem bitter and angry because others won't toe their view of the world who seem to be in tears. The rest of us are out camping and seeing new things and making new friends.

Now the question is: why is there more than one thread with the same posts? Why are they all full of complaints and accusations and allegations and innuendo and bitter angry people? When the major players have no direct complaint what is it that creates such a motivation to spew this stuff all over these forums? Why doesn't the code of ethics of the WBCCI seem to be any guide? Why isn't this effort towards getting out in their Airstream RV and seeing the world and meeting new friends?
Hey Bryan,

The folks to whom you seem to be referring are frustrated with their club's leaders. They just want to be heard and right now this forum gives them the opportunity to at least speak without interruption. The IBT, on the otherhand, tells them to stand down and/or get out! Is that fair or ethical? Is that leadership?

More than just a few folks want some changes in their club and leadership Bryan. They have legitimate concerns. They also have ideas and suggestions and, yes, sometimes they do come across a little too strong for my sweet, sensitive disposition. But this is a democracy Bryan. They have the right to communicate here the way they do. They have the right to be noisy, loud and passionate. And I don't blame them in the least! No one on the IBT seems to want to listen to them. Why?

Your 2nd paragraph is right on and I agree.

Regarding your 3rd paragraph: From my viewpoint you are referring to the IBT. Why won't they try to compromise on this proposed amendment Bryan? Or are you really in agreement that the proposed Constitutional amendment should be defeated? I have yet to hear how you feel about it officially. Are you for or against the proposal? Would you like to offer a compromise? Are you just waiting for someone to ask you to join Save Wally? We'd love to have you. Just let us know. You could even start another thread if you'd like.

Don
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Old 01-26-2007, 09:40 AM   #108
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Bryan-

As an officer of WBCCI you should be listneing to the membership because they are speaking loud and clear!

The emotional factor is apparent in the 'holy jihad' some have going on the topic of the day, every day it seems. IMHO, it is the overraught rhetoric we see in these threads that is doing more to drive members away than anything else.

As a veteran of this great contry, I take acception to the choice of words you have used in your above comment! What you are seeing here in the forums and reading are good honest, hard working people voicing thier opinions in an open forum in no way affiliated with WBCCI. If you feel so strongly that members of the WBCCI are misinformed, it would appear to me that the IBT should make it their mission that the members of the WBCCI are not left to their own devises to become informed. If misinformation is so rampant, where can members go to secure accurate information? The members of WBCCI need support from thier leadership and not insults. The club will survive but currently it has lost its direction and focus and spending extrodinary energies on issues which should not even be up for discussion. What should be addressed is what is the larger demographic of the organization, who is joining, who is not joining and why.
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Old 01-26-2007, 10:01 AM   #109
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I Have Listened to the IBT Proceedings

I recently listened to the IBT proceedings posted on savewally.org - thanks to those who made the recordings. This type of audio recording is exactly what is needed to ensure WBCCI members and others can understand what is going on with matters at hand. I sent an email to Communicator (Renee?) to inform her of the importance of the audio recordings.

After listening to the issues I still say WHEN? NEVER! Don't permit non-Airstream products into WBCCI. If necessary, some sort of grandfather clause - maybe. But don't open the WBCCI to other brands.

If I owned a Pontiac I would not expect the Chevrolet club to allow me to participate in Chevrolet club events. Even though both makes are produced by General Motors.

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Old 01-26-2007, 10:35 AM   #110
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvestysly
If I owned a Pontiac I would not expect the Chevrolet club to allow me to participate in Chevrolet club events. Even though both makes are produced by General Motors.

Lucius
Here, here!
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Old 01-26-2007, 11:06 AM   #111
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Exclamation Gotta be Kidding

WOW, looks just like an Aistream to me!



This is the monster you will be finding parked to you if IBT has it's way! Did you know that there is a Mandalay Travel Club? Right from their Q&A sheet:

Membership:
Who can join the Mandalay Travel Club?
You must own a Mandalay, Presidio or Valencia Class A diesel motorhome, manufactured by Mandalay Luxury Division to be eligible for membership.

Sound familiar folks? Doesn't WBCCI have a similiar statement? If there is already an organization limited to Mandalay owners only why do we need them in WBCCI?
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Old 01-26-2007, 01:11 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don
The folks to whom you seem to be referring are frustrated with their club's leaders. They just want to be heard and right now this forum gives them the opportunity to at least speak without interruption. The IBT, on the otherhand, tells them to stand down and/or get out! Is that fair or ethical? Is that leadership?
Venting, especially in public, is never a good idea.

Bad faith, when it is falsly based is also never a good idea.

AFAIK The IBT has not told anyone to stand down and/or to get out from anything. That would require a proper motion that is run through the proper process with appropriately noted outcomes. Such allegations tell me that personal vendettas are being used to 'interpret' individual statements that, as has been repeatedly demonstrated, often lack either accuracy or context. And then these personal statements are being elevated to formal policy.

And then there are rules of order. When someone acts out or tries to take business off point, that is a matter of effective conduct of business and the allegation would then be another matter. There are ways to do things and the abuse of those ways is destructive. That's why there are accepted guides for conducting business.

That should be the concern: understanding the rules of procedure, getting the context right (which is why the recording is so misleading), and taking responsibilities to be accountable for working the system properly and holding it accountable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don
More than just a few folks want some changes in their club and leadership
How is this measured? If I use posts on these forums, I only get a bare handful. If I use what I hear at events and rallies I get even fewer. It I use what I saw at the last delegates meeting in Salem I see only one or two (there were far more people at the 'activists' reception than in the meeting gallery, for instance).

There is a process for making changes. The name change process was an example of this in action. Each and every election for officers is an example of this as well as an opportunity. Each and every Unit meeting is an example and an opportunity. Responsible members are using these mechansisms to create change. They realize that change comes by working through others and creating friendships. They realize that they may not get everything just their way on their schedule. They realize that they have responsibilities to understand what is going on and why by taking the initiative to go out and find what they need to know.

Quote:
They have legitimate concerns
This may be. But their methods may delegitimatize their concerns. When the codes of conduct are thrown out the window; when there is a lack of responsibility in taking the initiative to understand the rules and policies; when existing mechanisms are thrown aside or dismissed ad hoc; when an innapropriate venue used; when there is no clear definition of the harm that prompts the change; -- when these are the methods used the legitimacy of the concern must be questioned.

Quote:
Why won't they try to compromise on this proposed amendment
Because that is not within the scope of their responsibilities. That task belongs first to the membership and then to the delegates. These are the bookends for the IBT's tasks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick
As an officer of WBCC
Sorry, the only such position I hold is currently is as treasurer in my local Unit. To assign me any representative position is as far off base as assigning powers to the IBT that they don't have. My involvement is more in line with that discussed at The Jewish Ethicist on When to do the “right thing.”

What I am seeing is people taking their disagreements personal. This is from the attacks on the IBT or the PTB (powers that be) or of the OBN (old boys network) the other 'us' vs 'them' rants or even the ad hominem named allegations. This goes beyond matters of identity in my mind. Unless we can behave by the code of conduct described in the WBCCI code of ethics and by what are generally considered appropriate guidelines for conducting business and working with each other, the rest of the issues are moot questions.

Me? I think WBCCI membership should reinforce the values behind choosing a trailer as the RV of choice and supplement that with a particular brand and style of trailer. But that matter is secondary to that of having a club where people are collegial, work together, conduct business in appropriate venues, trust each other and are honest with each other, encourage each other to get their rigs out and exploring the country, and are not burdened by feelings of entitlement.

Nearly all of the actual complaints and my own negative experiences have had to do with innapropriate individual behavior. I do not see people letting membership lapse because they don't like the voting method or the method by which the club conducts its business or because of the variety of RV's involved. The let it go because they encounter innapropriate behavior. That is why I consider that issue of highest priority. The behavior of the members is the most critical component of an organization's identity. The values used in selecting equipment are important but not the identity priority for me compared to that. I can tolerate SOB's on a campout (sorta' ;-) ) as I can tolerate differing points of view and odd quirks of others but I can't tolerate innapropriate behavior.
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