WBCCI MOHO Issue - 2013

[monah]

Hey Smartstream....first and foremost this club should be about friendships, adventures and Wally's legacy. Our unit is quite happy to with those priorities...and for the most part enjoys being blissfully unaware of the silly politics.

I on the other hand am one of many who care deeply for this club...wanting to see it thrive and evolve to meet the needs of the many ....new and heritage members.

You live in a beautiful part of the country - anytime you would like to camp and have fun with fellow Airstreamers just let me know

Mona

[c_lewis77]

Originally Posted by Grand Master

It seems to me that the only real function of the WBCCI is to promote the Airstream lifestyle. If it ever becomes a general RV Club, it will no longer have a unique personality and will no doubt vanish into obscurity. The Airstream mystique also carries with it a monetary advantage. The value of an Airstream is much higher than average because of quality and their iconic look. As Airstream owners, we should want to support an organization that gives us enjoyment, and promotes the mark. After all, the mystique helps preserve our investment.

I believe that once the precedent is set by allowing non-airstream products into the club, one of the main distinquing characteristics of the WBCCI will be lost. Once the door has been cracked open it cant be shut.
As stated earlier, the WBCCI is THE Airstream club....it says so on the top banner of the website! As a general RV club, what will the WBCCI offer that other larger clubs like good sam do not? How will the WBCCI compete and or distinguish itself in a general RV club setting in a way that will not just increase membership, but enhance the experience as well?
In my opinion there are better ways to focus our efforts in making the club better than rehashing this MoHo issue every year. If the WBCCI is not willing to promote "Airstream passion/ lifestyle" there are certainly other clubs waiting in the wings to carry that torch. (see the Florida State Rally/ Alumapalooza). There is npthing wrong with either one of those rallies, i have been to several non WBCCI rallies and had a great time. For the WBCCI, it can be a lost opportunity.

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

Of course. Thing is, the WBCCI members who want to buy Thor class A's don't want to leave the club. If they left the club because they want to buy Thors, then this whole issue would be a non-issue.

Which kind of puts "them" in the incomprehensible position of being more loyal to WBCCI than they are to Airstream. Despite the fact that WBCCI members are a subset of Airstream owners, not vice versa.

For one thing, the "quid pro quo" practice is in place, here, as with any other political organization, where the wants of others are supported in exchange for them supporting yours.

Secondly, this is largely a $$ reimbursement driven issue, isn't it?

Members in high places are given mileage, per diem, or whatever, to do "mandatory" travel to the International, Winter IBT, a certain number of rallies per year, etc. Isnt't that the case?

If the MOHO issue were pushed thru, those who want those big busses can have them and still receive that rather substantial, tax-free income to travel the country.

If this has changed recently, someone please correct me.

That this is so clearly not a member or majority driven issue, and never has been, speaks loudly to another agenda.....which must be pretty powerful. And, there are a lot of monetary assets for the WBCCI to use while the club is in a state of flux for whatever reason.

Maggie

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by doug&maggie

For one thing, the "quid pro quo" practice is in place, here, as with any other political organization, where the wants of others are supported in exchange for them supporting yours.

Secondly, this is largely a $$ reimbursement driven issue, isn't it?

Members in high places are given mileage, per diem, or whatever, to do "mandatory" travel to the International, Winter IBT, a certain number of rallies per year, etc. Isnt't that the case?

If the MOHO issue were pushed thru, those who want those big busses can have them and still receive that rather substantial, tax-free income to travel the country.

If this has changed recently, someone please correct me.

That this is so clearly not a member or majority driven issue, and never has been, speaks loudly to another agenda.....which must be pretty powerful. And, there are a lot of monetary assets for the WBCCI to use while the club is in a state of flux for whatever reason.

Maggie

There is much to what you say, but the amendment as written does not address WBCCI or IBT officers, just life members and annual members of greater than 10 years tenure. It may be true that the people who would benefit most are club officers sufficiently egotistical as to believe the club will die if they don't stick around to lead it back to its former glory, and hipocritical enough to think that a WBCCI led by officers who don't even own Airstreams anymore can ever achieve its former glory. But because the amendment doesn't limit the option to club officers or former officers, the implications of the amendment are even broader than "who profits?"

The implication of the amendment isn't "who profits?" It's "who loses?" And the answer is, Airstream owners everywhere, even those who don't belong to WBCCI.

[Lily&Me]

The few people who actually want these MOHO's, though, while remaining in the WBCCI, are the upper echelon, correct?

Those same people whose travel is funded by the WBCCI?


Maggie

[Smartstream]

Originally Posted by monah

Hey Smartstream....first and foremost this club should be about friendships, adventures and Wally's legacy. Our unit is quite happy to with those priorities...and for the most part enjoys being blissfully unaware of the silly politics.

I on the other hand am one of many who care deeply for this club...wanting to see it thrive and evolve to meet the needs of the many ....new and heritage members.

You live in a beautiful part of the country - anytime you would like to camp and have fun with fellow Airstreamers just let me know

Mona

Mona thank you for your kind invitation. Actually we have camped with you at Albany a couple of years ago. You spent some time playing with our Great Dane, Hagar. We have also camped with members of your unit at non WBCCI events and really enjoy the group.

When we first got our Airstream the first thing we did was join Air Forums and WBCCI. It just seemed like the thing to do. We do enjoy the friendships and the adventure and the Airstream/Wally legacy. The problem is we witnessed the antics of the powers that be and cannot in good conscience support those actions. If the club management can find it's way back to exhibit some of Wally's character and principles we will reconsider.

We look forward to our paths crossing again.

[monah]

Hey Dan -

I was just wondering if that was you guys!!!! How's my BFF Hagar??

You're always welcome to join the Oregon Unit rallies.....no pressume on rejoining until the club gets back on Wally's path

Ditto - would love to cross paths with you again....safe travels
Mona

[Smartstream]

Originally Posted by monah

Hey Dan -

I was just wondering if that was you guys!!!! How's my BFF Hagar??

You're always welcome to join the Oregon Unit rallies.....no pressume on rejoining until the club gets back on Wally's path

Ditto - would love to cross paths with you again....safe travels
Mona

Hagar says Hi! He's getting old but he still loves to camp in his "Hagarstream."

Keep on Streaming.

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by damonbeals

Who are these 'them'. I believe only one member has brought this up.

The motion presented at the 2012 Delegates Meeting was originally written by a special committee of the IBT to study the motor home problem.

The motion was presented to the 2012 Midwinter IBT, which voted to send it to the 2012 Delegates Meeting for a vote by the membership. A delegate at the 2012 Delegates Meeting noted some technical defects in the motion, and moved to send the motion to the International Constitution and Bylaws Committee to correct them. That motion was approved by the delegates.

The Constitution and Bylaws Committee amended the motion to correct those technical issues, and here it is back again for the 2013 Delegates Meeting.

So "them" is a committee. As I recall it had about a half a dozen members.
.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by doug&maggie

The few people who actually want these MOHO's, though, while remaining in the WBCCI, are the upper echelon, correct?

Those same people whose travel is funded by the WBCCI?


Maggie

I don't personally know any WBCCI members who want to get rid of their Airstreams at all, let alone trade up to a Thor Class A. But yeah, it's probably a good way to bet that it's primarily officers, who get reimbursement, who want to trade up to a Thor. But since they would get EXACTLY the same reimbursement for the same trips in their already-paid-for Airstreams— based on the Financial Disbursement Policy in the WBCCI Bylaws (pages 35.2 - 41) I don't see the financial benefit in making the same trips in a Thor.

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

I don't personally know any WBCCI members who want to get rid of their Airstreams at all, let alone trade up to a Thor Class A. But yeah, it's probably a good way to bet that it's primarily officers, who get reimbursement, who want to trade up to a Thor. But since they would get EXACTLY the same reimbursement for the same trips in their already-paid-for Airstreams— based on the Financial Disbursement Policy in the WBCCI Bylaws (pages 35.2 - 41) I don't see the financial benefit in making the same trips in a Thor.

The benefit is having a new, nicer, bigger, whatever rig that is not an Airstream, but continue with membership and the financial privileges of the upper echelon.


Maggie

[masseyfarm]

I have no desire to join the WBCCI for many reasons, but probably the largest is the fact that, because of the number units produced it is primarily a trailer club. Motorhome owners are generally better served by other organizations.

However, if some of "them" are interested in new motorhomes, why don't they get 10 or 12 of "them" together and approach AIRSTREAM with a time limited guaranteed pre-order for that number of motorhomes based on final engineering specifications being suitable for their desired needs.

Any company, even AIRSTREAM, would have to think twice to reject this type of approach. AIRSTREAM has made low volume runs in the past of many models, ( ie: 25 total units of the AIRSTREAM 36 which included the later re- branded CLIPPER for the last dozen units of production after they had finally standardized the specifications that were required for this type of Class A.)

Any new AIRSTREAM CLASS A produced from this type of input would probably include a lot of aluminium from existing production, but might also have f/g front and rear caps that require less tooling to produce.

Just mount it on a quality chassis.

Dave

Originally Posted by Protagonist

I don't personally know any WBCCI members who want to get rid of their Airstreams at all, let alone trade up to a Thor Class A. But yeah, it's probably a good way to bet that it's primarily officers, who get reimbursement, who want to trade up to a Thor. But since they would get EXACTLY the same reimbursement for the same trips in their already-paid-for Airstreams— based on the Financial Disbursement Policy in the WBCCI Bylaws (pages 35.2 - 41) I don't see the financial benefit in making the same trips in a Thor.

[Howard E]

Originally Posted by doug&maggie

The benefit is having a new, nicer, bigger, whatever rig that is not an Airstream, but continue with membership and the financial privileges of the upper echelon.


Maggie

Now, we are not talking about a case of "Slide Out Envy" are we? Maybe they should go play in the Prevost or Newel sandbox instead.

The "too old to pull a trailer" and "worn out MOHO" just do not wash.

If you are too old to pull a trailer, it is not a brand question, it is a safety question. Should you even be driving?

Worn out MOHO? Just look at today's Airforum Classifieds under Late Model Motorhomes - many low mileage late model Airstreams (even one with 2 slides) with deisel power plants which should be good for 100,000 to 250,000 miles minimum. The other alternative is to do what the Vintage Folks do - rebuild, remodel, and refurbish.

[A/S Squared]

I think the idea of getting together a group of like minded people that want an AS MHO is a great idea! (putting their money where their mouth is). As far as being reimbursed expenses by the club for travel, the monies received by the members of the IBT in no way pays for all the fuel and other costs incurred. They do it for love of the club. I worry that with such a small number of rigs signed up for the 2013 Int'l that this amendment might pass. We need to make sure as many members are informed about this as possible in order to make every vote count.

[wkerfoot]

FWIW, here is my take on this motion:

It is not being pushed by the International or Region Officers, at least not like the full court press which they used in 2007. The push for the motion is not to keep their travel reimbursements. The club has cut the reimbursements for the past two or three years, and I am sure that the International officers spend much more that the reimbursement each year, and I am sure that the same exists for the Region officers in large geographic regions.

It is being pushed by members who used to be International, Region and Unit officers.

Those pushing the motion may have some slide out envy.

The "my Airstream motor home is worn out" excuse is hard for me to swallow, since my Airstream trailers are 34 and 59 years old and my tow vehicles are 36 and 41 years old.

There are used, low mileage Airstream motor homes available. One of our unit members, a vintage owner, recently purchased a beautiful low mileage rear engine Airstream motor home for a reasonable price.

Bill

[RickDavis]

Originally Posted by A/S Squared

I think the idea of getting together a group of like minded people that want an AS MHO is a great idea! (putting their money where their mouth is). As far as being reimbursed expenses by the club for travel, the monies received by the members of the IBT in no way pays for all the fuel and other costs incurred. They do it for love of the club. I worry that with such a small number of rigs signed up for the 2013 Int'l that this amendment might pass. We need to make sure as many members are informed about this as possible in order to make every vote count.

While I don't recall the exact details I seem to remember a few years ago that Larry Huttle asked for a commitment from members to buy new motorhomes and did not get a satisfactory response.

With poor attendance at the international it would appear that many units won't have a delegate present to represent them when the voting takes place

[Gene]

If a small group were to convince Thor to produce some Thor MH's with an Airstream badge, the new owners would get an average or subaverage MH. That is the Thor business model. They use Airstream to give the Thor line some class and then produce trailers and MH's for the middle and lower end of the market. And other Airstreamers will probably mock the new "Airstream" MH's as fake Airstreams.

Gene

[newroswell]

I believe the limited run of Thor's with Airstream badges was floated in the past. Airstream and/or Thor was not interested in cross pollinating a dozen motorhomes just to prop up a few WBCCI old timers. Just one of the many potential problems with these fake Airstreams would be who does the warranty work?

[mefly2]

From where is the push coming? As a newer member to WBCCI, I thought this organization was all about Airstreams ... there are lots of other options for SOB, MOHO and AS to mix together in different clubs.

We find the annual dues to be questionable as to value ... but have heard the rumors that some folks get their travel expenses paid ... is that why the dues are so high. It can't be for the magazine production costs and most of the WBCCI events which we have attended are self-supporting financially.

It seems like many of the WBCCI staff are right at the mother ship ... we have gotten great tips and advice from this forum; the Blue Beret - not so much.

[wkerfoot]

As a member, you can request a copy of the club's financial statements from Cindy Reed in Jackson Center. I do not feel that it is appropriate to discuss the financial details of the club on an open forum.

Although the club's headquarters are in Jackson Center, they are not at the Airstream plant but, I believe, on the opposite end of town, not a large town.

An earlier post of mine discussed the travel reimbursements in a general manner and where I think the push for this motion is located.

Bill

Originally Posted by mefly2

From where is the push coming? As a newer member to WBCCI, I thought this organization was all about Airstreams ... there are lots of other options for SOB, MOHO and AS to mix together in different clubs.

We find the annual dues to be questionable as to value ... but have heard the rumors that some folks get their travel expenses paid ... is that why the dues are so high. It can't be for the magazine production costs and most of the WBCCI events which we have attended are self-supporting financially.

It seems like many of the WBCCI staff are right at the mother ship ... we have gotten great tips and advice from this forum; the Blue Beret - not so much.