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Old 02-02-2011, 09:52 AM   #161
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Put me down in the " significant disinterest" category
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Old 02-02-2011, 10:19 AM   #162
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Thanks for posting that letter Leo. It really shows where the motorhome issue lies or has been left...basically without support from anyone except a few passionate members that wont let go. And yet the IBT has decided to order yet another motorhome committee. (What happened to the last one that just reported?) To what end I ask? Probably to satisfy that vocal minority who demand WBCCI, Thor, and Airstream hop to it without delay so someone (we don't even know who) can get a new motorhome that would not normally qualify for membership otherwise and stay in the club, (perhaps even remain in a leadership position.) This is either a matter of coasting during their watch, going out on a limb for a buddy, or ineffectual oblivion or deliberate dismissal of the fact of overwhelming lack of general membership approval, though proven many times over by survey after survey and membership votes. This again is not a member driven initiative that the leadership is putting forward. Either which way and though it is said not to have a financial impact upon the club it is a waste of time and energy and adds more to the level of bureaucracy in the club and diverts time energy and attention away from the new business of the club to support and forward membership issues. More work and more jobs needlessly spread out to appease the few and feign work and direction.

Exactly what are the results of the Mid-Winter IBT meetings and rally as pertaining to club business productivity and at what expenditure? Nothing that mere members were able to participate or comment upon that is for certain, and probably no mistake there... I do also find it interesting to note that while the rally reports were being discussed once again it was requested that there be a report in regard to the Mid-Winter IBT rallies. That particular seminar seems to be able to fly under the wire and not be subject to scrutiny or the same parameters as other rallies and events.
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Old 02-02-2011, 10:45 AM   #163
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I haven't check the forum for a while... but how (not) surprising to see the moho is back!!!

Anyhow...
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:17 PM   #164
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A little history

First we heard,

Jan 7, 2011 - 65GT quoting the WBCCI MoHo committee report. (Original available at http://www.wbcci.org/documents/IBT%2...%20revised.pdf )
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT View Post
Committee Report X
FEASABILITY STUDY REGARDING MOTOR HOMES ORDER BY THE IBT ON JULY 5, 2010 MEETING.

<snip>

A new meeting date was set up for Mr. Huttle to meet with the committee at the Swiss Festival National Rally at Sugarcreek Oh. Attending that meeting was the following members of WBCCI. International 2nd VP Don C., President of Region 4 John T. and Karin K. 1st VP of region 4 and Chairman of the committee.

In the discussion we were informed that all products would be Thor and that Thor will take over the manufacturing of all Motor Homes. It was suggested that like Airstream does with the B van and the new Avenue motor home. Question to Mr. Huttle was is it possible that a class A motor home be handled in the same manner". He indicated that it'' is a possibility that Airstream and Thor could do that. A motor home manufactured by Thor for Airstream and Badge Airstream.

Mr Huttle advised the committee he met with that he would discuss this possibility with Airstream and Thor and make a report to the IBT at the Mid Winter board meeting in Robstown, Texas. The Committee feels if this is the road that Airstream will take then no motion should be required for a change in the current policies as this is being done today with the B-Van and the Avenue.
Now we hear,

Feb 2, 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT View Post
This is the contents of the memo from Airstream to the WBCCI with regards to Airstream's once willingness to produce a WBCCI edition Class A product. This memo was read in its entirety at this past IBT Meeting and you will be able to hear the IP read this memo in full once the broadcasts are posted:

AIRSTREAM MEMO:

To: Cindy R.
From: Larry H.
Date: January 27, 2011
Re: Class “A” Motorhome Discussion / WBCCI Membership Acceptance

<snip>

Cindy, I believe the Thor Motor Coach officials have lost interest in pursuing a workable arrangement with the WBCCI as a result of their experience in 2007 with a low WBCCI approval by the general membership of its involvement.

Without significant WBCCI support and strong interest in seeking an immediate workable agreement, I feel strongly the Thor Motor Coach Division officials will not seek to move forward.
Can’t really blame either Airstream or Thor for this position—they see gas prices heading up again and the motor home market heading down again soon.

And finally,

Jan 30, 2011 LI Pets comment on the MoHo issue
Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
You folks may want to read the new constitution as it may relate to this issue!
Kinda sounds like the new, improved, constitution and bylaws solve the problem by opening the club to non-Airstream motor homes, doesn’t it?
.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:27 PM   #165
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Only to those that see the glass half empty like you John.

You are a super negative person.
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:00 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuvite-F View Post
Kinda sounds like the new, improved, constitution and bylaws solve the problem by opening the club to non-Airstream motor homes, doesn’t it?
.
I had never thought of that. But if delegates were eliminated and since Forrest's amendment giving more power to the delegates was returned and would not be neccessary it would certainly give the IBT a clearer shot at it again. SLAM DUNK SCORE hmmmm Definitely worth pondering.

Another member brought it to my attention that a motivation I had overlooked was the quest for increased revenue. I don't think any of us will forget the PIP's statement that the IBT pursue quality members and not quantity. Could be why the Internationals are so high priced and that the exodus of members is not particularly alarming to leadership and even calculated in the projections of future dues increases.

We were told this club is about friends and not brand identity. It doesn't matter to them what they are driving. Their positions of leadership and recognition and perks provided by the club doesn't hurt them much either. The emphasis is on money and ego, now where have we seen that evidenced before?
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:55 PM   #167
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Yes it Does!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuvite-F View Post


Kinda sounds like the new, improved, constitution and bylaws solve the problem by opening the club to non-Airstream motor homes, doesn’t it?
.

You hit that nail on the head. BUT do we really think they have the guts to do something that stupid?

Just asking...............
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:31 PM   #168
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Oh I can't stand it:

Ed, you have to ask that question?? You know, and we know the answer is YES!!

Look. it appears that the C&BC is calling the shots. Our IP, Mr Beu, last week makes an agreement behind closed doors with Region 11 Prez Neumarkel, and was the C&BC Chairman present? Was he present during Tuesday's rollcall that was broadcast, at least I didn't hear him say, 'Present or Here." I maybe wrong.
Come last Friday, the Chairnan of C&BC, Mr Shafer is present and we heard him speak. IP, Mr Beu, recants the agreement pretaining to the Denco/Region 11 motion, saying he misspoke. Hello!!
In 2007, then IP Mr Shafer at Perry International, who owns a Class A Airstream diesel pusher, and now is C&BC Chairman, is overheard at Perry whispering on recording, that the motorhome issue isn't over, and PRESTO!!! Look what we are talking about NOW.
This new Constitution smacks of mystery. We haven't been given a good reason why the old one needs a complete re-write. As Forrest said earlier, a Constitution is a living document which can be modified as time goes on. You don't see the United States' Constitution being re-written, at least for now.
New Constitution, new Bylaws, SOB Class A Motorhome discussion all in one bag. This smacks of something, but what.
So, someone (Bob?) produce this new Constiution now, and put an end to these jeering snippets when "Leo, or Nuvite-F, or Wheel Interested" speak.
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Old 02-02-2011, 03:12 PM   #169
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To tell the truth, I can't see any reason not to post what they've got now on the new constitution as long as they make clear that it's the unproofed draft, subject to change. Hardly rocket science. And who knows? Maybe they could get a good pointer or two from non-committee readers!

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Old 02-02-2011, 04:12 PM   #170
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Good point Lynn. But, do you believe they (Revisionists) really want input from us "members" since the whole process is done behind closed door?
Sorry, but I am a skeptic. If the re-write is above board, and I do hope it is, then why not be open about it from the beginning.
Our past Unit President had no knowledge of a call for input being made last year when this all began. Otherwise, he would have made an announcement at one of our Unit business meetings or posted in our newsletter.
L I Pets stated early on that a call was made for membership suggestions. When was this call made? We don't recall hearing a peep.
If it was done July 5th at Gillette International, well, you know, we have to work, and we left the fairgrounds early the 5th, 2010, clueless of IBT agendas.
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Old 02-02-2011, 04:13 PM   #171
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I would guess the reason they have not posted a draft of the new constitution is for exactly the reason given above. If it does contain a motorhome provision, they now have time to bury it somewhere where you won't see it.
Or add it as amendment #1 once the lights are turned off.
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Old 02-02-2011, 05:38 PM   #172
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The draft writers do not need to ADD a motorhome provision...

The current CONSTITUTION requires individuals to OWN an AIRSTREAM to become a member. That's all. (I suppose those unscrupulous members who wish to bend the rules to suit their personal "wants" could buy shares in a junk Airstream to meet the requirement.)

Our current BYLAWS is where the restrictions are held.
  • Members may not attend or participate in a WBCCI function while using any other brand RV. Regardless of where the RV is parked.
  • Members may sell their Airstreams due to health, etc. and remain members, AS LONG AS THEY DO NOT PURCHASE SOME OTHER BRAND.
  • Members may tow an Airstream to a WBCCI event with SOB motorhome, but must only use the Airstream while at the event.

By simply omitting the above, anyone who meets the Airstream ownership requirement would be allowed to attend any WBCCI event in any brand or style of RV.

We must be aware of not only what is IN the new Constitution and Bylaws, but also what is OMITTED.

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Old 02-02-2011, 05:44 PM   #173
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“If significant interest by WBCCI members is demonstrated and several buyers come forth with purchases
In other words, Y’all need to “Put up or Shut up” We’re not going to go out and build a bunch of these things in hopes of you guys buying them.

“In addition to immediate sales purchases”
In other words, “Need to show us some “Green Backs, Frog Skins, Uncle Bens” before we even design the WBCCI sticker that goes on the side.

“Airstream approval “
Who’s at risk here! Which company’s going to get the “Bad Rap” when stuff starts breaking. You want me to take all the risk and get none of the profit? RIIGHT!

“Thor Motor Coaches sells via its own distribution system and not via Airstream dealers”
Paperwork nightmare!

“Warranty coverage would be provided through Thor Motor Coach and not via Airstream dealers
Can you imagine how the guy will feel that buys a used unit still under warranty rolls into an Airstream dealership looking to get something fix but the guy that he bought it off of didn’t tell him about this little issue? Talk about liability issues and lawsuits!

“Airstream dealers would have to approve this because it affects its contractual agreement with Airstream and state DMV laws prevail with these types of matters”
There no reason as an Airstream dealer to good through this headache for the WBCCI

“I believe the Thor Motor Coach officials have lost interest in pursuing a workable arrangement with the WBCCI as a result of their experience in 2007 with a low WBCCI approval by the general membership of its involvement.”
Why is it that everyone else understands it, but the IBT/EC7 doesn’t get it!

“I hope these comments add some clarity?”
A nice way to say "Pound Sand".
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:34 PM   #174
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Many AS dealers do not service or sell B vans now. So what would be the big difference. zz
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:09 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloradobus View Post
But, do you believe they (Revisionists) really want input from us "members" ...?

L I Pets stated early on that a call was made for membership suggestions. When was this call made? We don't recall hearing a peep.

Sorry, but I am a skeptic. If the re-write is above board, and I do hope it is, then why not be open about it from the beginning.
I must submit you're factually incorrect on 08-25-2010, 06:29 PM this thread was started WBCCI Bylaws/Constitution suggestions/recommendations

There were 286 replies and 13,500 people read that thread.

All members had email and or phone access to the committee.

This committee was the most open committee formed that I know of.
Did you post any suggestions? any calls or emails?

Quote:
Our past Unit President had no knowledge of a call for input being made last year when this all began. Otherwise, he would have made an announcement at one of our Unit business meetings or posted in our newsletter.
Then he was remiss perhaps, several announcements were made.
Since you frequent this forum why didn't you chirp up and make an announcement at one of those meetings?

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Old 02-02-2011, 07:26 PM   #176
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OK, your right Bob, I missed that announcement. Sorry. If it was so important for member input, why wasn't it announced thru main WBCCI channels....... Blue Beret? Constant Contact, thru President Beu's Newsletter. We just don't hatch the computer all the time. After Gillette with big letdown of the failed Lawsuit, I lost interest. So, I didnt read any forums information for the rest of the summer. We also had our RMVAC rally, travelling to collect a trailer, a wedding, and other RV activities to occupy our time. Cripe, why am I making excuses to you., If it was that important, HQ should put out a call.
If this constitution goes like the lawsuit, I will loose interest again in all things WBCCI.
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:27 PM   #177
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:40 PM   #178
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You bet, Frank, I should take up the bagpipes. They take alot of wind, where's the Mentos
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:42 PM   #179
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Nope

Quote:
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Oh I can't stand it:

Ed, you have to ask that question?? You know, and we know the answer is YES!!

We all know the answer is yes they could. But will they? Bob are you trying to go down that path?

All I can say is don't do it....................

And if they do, I have my SOB moho all picked out and its a beauty!!!!! Can't wait for the next International to show it off!

All I can say is when I drive it I hear Banjos
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:49 PM   #180
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Hey I don't want 'em
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