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Old 12-31-2010, 09:41 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by cooperhawk View Post
I would say this forum has done more to wreck the club than anything else.
I really would have to disagree with this logic. Shining light on bad practice may be a proximal contributor to the fuss, but not the root cause. Using the logic you propose, the abolitionist were the cause of the Civil War and Woodward and Bernstein caused Nixon to fail. Did the little boy who pointed out the Emperor had no clothes on cause him to walk down the street buck naked? I think not.

The only way to go along with this logic is to believe that it is wrong to point out mistakes in favor of temporary congeniality.
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Old 12-31-2010, 10:00 AM   #100
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The only way to go along with this logic is to believe that it is wrong to point out mistakes in favor of temporary congeniality.
Well, you folks really do quite a good job of that. I would sure hate to be a board member.
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Old 12-31-2010, 10:10 AM   #101
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Well, you folks really do quite a good job of that. I would sure hate to be a board member.
If they can't stand the heat, they should get out of the kitchen.
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Old 12-31-2010, 10:42 AM   #102
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I would like to take some time to correct some misconceptions about this issue.

Can a WBCCI member attend any WBCCI function in a non-Airstream RV?

Currently, NO. Attendance and participation at any WBCCI event is FORBIDDEN except in an emergency, and then the member may attend and stay in hotel lodging. Parking off-site as Norm Beu may have said, is not acceptable. Here is the Bylaws and Policy that address this:


Article IV, Membership

Sec. 9 Bylaws

Except as authorized by section 12 of this article, only members of the international club traveling in a recreational vehicle manufactured by Airstream, Inc. And their guests, and visitors especially authorized by the Executive Committee of the international club, may be admitted to an Intra-club, a unit, a region, or a national caravan or to an Intra-club, a unit, a region, a special events, a national, or an international rally. However, members of the international club may attend an Intra-club, a unit, a state, a region, a special event, a national, or an international rally without their recreational vehicle
manufactured by Airstream, Inc. When it is inconvenient or impossible for them to travel in said recreational vehicle, provided such members do not attend (for the purpose of this section attend is defined as “to be present at any rally activity”) in any other make of recreational vehicle.
The requirements of this section shall not be applicable to members of the international club traveling outside the North American continent in caravans organized under the sponsorship of the international relations standing committee. (1/18/02)

Sec.10 Bylaws

Except as authorized by section 12 of this article, a recreational vehicle, that is not manufactured by Bylaws Airstream, Inc., shall not be admitted to an Intra-club, a unit, a region or national caravan or to an Intra-club, a unit, a state, a region, a special event, a national, or an international rally, except a semi or fully self contained motorized recreational vehicle being used to tow a recreational vehicle manufactured by Airstream, Inc. may be admitted to an Intra-club, a unit, a region or a national caravan or to an Intra-club, a unit, a state, a region, a special event, a national, or an international rally provided such motorized vehicle is used solely for transportation purposes at a caravan or rally parking
site.
(1/17/03)


The definition of a Member, Article VI, in our Constitution.

Sec. 1 An adult who owns a hard sided recreational vehicle manufactured by Airstream, Inc. shall be eligible for membership. (6/30/06)

Any change to the Constitution, to alter this sentence above, requires the vote of all units/delegates, and must pass with a two-thirds vote. Our concern is that the change may occur in the Bylaws and Policy section of the Blue Book, and that is an entirely different set of voting rules. As quoted earlier, a member may own or partially own any Airstream, in any condition, and meet the definition of a member as stated in our Constitution.

Now we arrive at the purpose of our letter. A motion/amendment to alter the Bylaws and Policies to “loosen” the participation restriction of members who attend in any other type of recreational vehicle (motorhome is always assumed, but what about fifth-wheels, Class-C motorhomes, etc.???) most definitely DOES NOT REQUIRE UNIT VOTES. This is not a change to our Constitution. A minor tweak to the highlighted areas above would open the door to our events becoming open to any and all brands.

The letter was also intended to serve notice that any amendment brought forth “from the floor” should not be voted on without discussion and input from each unit. Below is the section that would allow this possibility to occur. (Though I would be hard-pressed to consider a motion of this nature “routine”.)


Sec. 4 In order to facilitate early distribution of the meeting agenda for the advance notice to the board Bylaws members, all agenda items should be submitted to Headquarters by December 1 for the mid-winter board meeting, May 1 for the June IBT meeting and to the Headquarters Liaison office at the rally site by June 30 for the IBT meeting following the international rally. Only amendments to policy and routine matters shall be permitted from the floor. (ref. Article XVIII, Sec. 1, Page 58) (7/5/00)


If you still believe our Board of Trustees cannot make this type of change to our club, keep reading:

ARTICLE XV
BYLAWS AND POLICY

Sec. 1 Bylaws and Policies not inconsistent with this Constitution embodying additional provisions for the government of the Wally Byam Caravan Club International, Inc., may be adopted by the Board of Trustees.

ARTICLE VIII
BOARD OF TRUSTEES

Sec. 1 Bylaws Major policy changes adopted by the board of trustees shall be communicated in writing to all Unit Presidents who shall so inform their members. (7/5/00)

ARTICLE XVIII
AMENDMENTS

Sec. 1 Bylaws These Bylaws may be amended by two-thirds (2/3) vote of the Board of Trustees present and voting at a regular or special meeting called for that purpose provided the proposed amendment shall have been submitted to all members of the Board of Trustees in writing five (5) days prior to such meeting. Notice of proposed amendments may be given in less than five (5) days, however, a nine-tenths (9/10) vote of the board shall be required for adoption. (7/5/93)

And finally,

Article IX
Sec. 6 A quorum of the Board of Trustees shall consist of ten (10) members.


We hope to achieve an open dialogue and not a clandestine action to address the motorhome issue. The final straw that convinced me this letter was appropriate and necessary was the mention that Larry Huttle at the Sugar Creek Rally, said Airstream would be willing to consider production of motorhomes provided there was enough interest. (Both Norm Beu and committee chairman were present.) If I were President, or Chairman of the Committee recently formed to “study” this topic, I would have made an announcement both in the Blue Beret and through Constant Contact to our membership! What a glorious possibility! I would have been looking for a solid number of committed purchasers with a timeline of when these purchasers planned to buy. Gosh, we have a new committee that could gather the data!! How many motorhomes would Airstream consider worthwhile?

But not one word has been mentioned, except on these forums. Why not? Could it be that the IBT has decided on another direction?
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Old 12-31-2010, 11:15 AM   #103
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Interesting that a Region President (tarheel) does not know that only the IBT and not the delegates can amend the bylaws.
Smoke Screen?
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Old 12-31-2010, 12:07 PM   #104
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Cooperhawk wrote:
Quote:
I would say this forum has done more to wreck the club than anything else.
Boondocker wrote:
Quote:
I really would have to disagree with this logic. Shining light on bad practice may be a proximal contributor to the fuss, but not the root cause. Using the logic you propose, the abolitionist were the cause of the Civil War and Woodward and Bernstein caused Nixon to fail. Did the little boy who pointed out the Emperor had no clothes on cause him to walk down the street buck naked? I think not.
I think the both of you are both right and wrong, and the reason is that the WBCCI and the role of Airforums is hardly one-dimenional.
If we're talking about (some) members' satisfaction with the WBCCI and the potential for change, then, yes, I believe that the Airforums have played a positive role.
If, however, we're talking about the attitudes of potential members about joining the club, then I think it pretty obvious that the posts on Airforums have had a very negative impact.
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Old 12-31-2010, 01:35 PM   #105
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I got involved with WBCCI because the person that sold me my unit was a member and he turned me on to WBCCI. My wife and I got involved with our local unit and formed may close ties with the members. In a short while I was asked to become a trustee and from there I did my part and in a short while I became the unit president. After finishing my term as president I still wanted to be active in the club and searched for ways that I thought my talents could be best utilized. I offered my services at the Region level because I thought I could help the club best there. I have been at the Region level for almost 5 years. In the last 5 years we have only had one individual step up to take an elected office and due to personal circumstances he had to step down. This is an all volunteer organization, where are the volunteers? You say you want changes in the club, when was the last time you have talked with your unit to get a motion,that is important to you drafted and passed? Have you talked with your Region officers and let them know your units positons on the issues that concern you? I am going to do my best to vote the way I feel my Region thinks, this is why they elected me to office. The units have a responsibility to let me know their feelings otherwise I am just guessing. Help the club by letting your thoughts be known and then helping to make the changes happen. One person can't do it all. I need help and support and for over 4 years it has not happened. Where are you? If you just don't care then why post and say you do? Help make this clulb viable, It is a good club made up of a membership that cares, help them do the job you want them to do.
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Old 12-31-2010, 01:56 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarheel View Post
I got involved with WBCCI because the person that sold me my unit was a member and he turned me on to WBCCI. My wife and I got involved with our local unit and formed may close ties with the members. In a short while I was asked to become a trustee and from there I did my part and in a short while I became the unit president. After finishing my term as president I still wanted to be active in the club and searched for ways that I thought my talents could be best utilized. I offered my services at the Region level because I thought I could help the club best there. I have been at the Region level for almost 5 years. In the last 5 years we have only had one individual step up to take an elected office and due to personal circumstances he had to step down. This is an all volunteer organization, where are the volunteers?

With thousands and thousands of members, I would submit it is just possible the majority of members don't want to become part of the higher echelon, for any number of reasons. Maybe they feel powerless to effect change, maybe they don't want to be seen as "one of them".

You say you want changes in the club, when was the last time you have talked with your unit to get a motion,that is important to you drafted and passed? Have you talked with your Region officers and let them know your units positons on the issues that concern you?

And if you have, what has been the response to your suggestions---from Unit officers and Unit members? Do they support change/moving into the 21st century or do they want things to remain just the way they are? Do Units want and make an effort to include everyone in decisions and current or upcoming discussions, or just the inner circle?

I am going to do my best to vote the way I feel my Region thinks, this is why they elected me to office. The units have a responsibility to let me know their feelings otherwise I am just guessing. Help the club by letting your thoughts be known and then helping to make the changes happen.

And when and how does a member do that "letting your thoughts be known" thing? If you are unable to be present at all rallies/business meetings, does your absence preclude knowledge of what is happening---and a voice on issues?

One person can't do it all. I need help and support and for over 4 years it has not happened. Where are you? If you just don't care then why post and say you do? Help make this clulb viable, It is a good club made up of a membership that cares, help them do the job you want them to do.

See above.

It's just not this simple, Tarheel. The sociologists might call it apathy, or worse.

Doug says people vote with their feet--and their pocketbooks--and he's right.

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Old 12-31-2010, 03:28 PM   #107
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Quote from Tarheel in post 105

"You say you want changes in the club, when was the last time you have talked with your unit to get a motion,that is important to you drafted and passed?"

While I have not sponsored a motion myself, I have observed the long slow process of taking a motion from the unit level to the region level and finally to the IBT.

While way too slow, this does appear to work. Where it all falls apart is that once in the hands of the IBT they slice it, dice it, and come up with some really far out reasons why this should not be done, or make major changes.

A good demonstration of this is what happened to the caravan motion that has been brought up twice

(examples. It would add more pages to the directory to list the participants in these shorter caravans, Or people wouldn't be able to go to church with that length caravan)



In my mind it is obvious that after going through all the steps to get there this is what the members want and the IBT should vote on it unchanged.

The ideal situation would be for the delegates, or better yet the entire units to vote on these motions.

On a local and region level (region 6) I do not ever remember the membership being asked for input and when I have offered some any way it was not welcomed. (there was never a round table discussion either)

I certainly wish our region was as open to input as region 3 appears to be.
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Old 12-31-2010, 04:02 PM   #108
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anecdote

Another way of shooting a motion down is what the Bylaws Committee has done with Forrest McClure's motion. He presented it to our unit, the dastardly Denver Unit 024. We voted in favor, and it was disseminated thru out Region 11 Units, voted on in favor, sent to HQ to be given to Don Shafer's committee for comment. So far, its stalled, dead, done. Nno comment will be made. Mr Shafer's committee spells out that our Unit 024 didn't follow procedures. Come on folks, who of all people knows more about parliamentary procedure and Robert's Rules than Forrest, IMHO. The motion would take some teeth out of the Bylaws Committee and give members a voice and some teeth, so it will most likely be ruled "out of order", if it ever got anywhere.
See Forrest's Motion.
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Old 12-31-2010, 05:02 PM   #109
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And what exactly was the procedure not followed correctly? I find that ironic in the face of survey after survey showing that the motorhome issue shut be shut down permanently.
It does seem that if an issue fits the needs whims or desires of the IBT, it is good to go, but if not.....
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Old 12-31-2010, 07:12 PM   #110
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In all honesty, despite my jaded nature, I am still surprised to see this come up again. The motor home issue is like Jason Voorhees it just won't die. I was holding on to my dues for 2011 until after the winter meeting, with the renewal being contingent on improvement. Apparently, maintaining small gains, let alone improvement isn't in the cards. As much as I love rallies and the folks I run into at them, I cannot, in good conscience pay dues to an organization where members have the vote, but the votes don't mean anything. I will wait to see what happens at the meeting, but I hold out little hope.
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Old 12-31-2010, 07:49 PM   #111
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Tim, Mr Shafer stated in letter form, said the motion's means of introduction was not in order in accordance with procedures in the Bylaws. Well, we did follow, and Denver voted on it iin favorr in May Rally 2010, its been publisned in our Newsletter twice, sent it on to our Region President, who diessminated it thru Region 11 and all Units passed in favor. Clear as a Bell to me.
This motion would give the membership more power and more controls to help lift WBCCI to new level , be more friendly towards all. There is a reason it is being squashed, it takes away some of the "closed door, non disclosure policy making" that goes on now. IMHO
In my general letter to Cindi at HQ for her to send out to IBT officers. We were polled in 2003, and we cast votes in 2007 in Perry. A majority of the membership was against allowing non-airstream Class A's that aren't sold and serviced and warranteed by Airstreram Inc and their dealer to be allow entry into WBCCI.
What do these Class A proponents not understand? I am at a loss.
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Old 01-01-2011, 04:17 PM   #112
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Thumbs down

Shooting down motions heavily supported by the membership by citing errors, ordering studies or sending it back to the writer instead of working to correct them to aid members is something the IBT uses often, now Forrest's and before the numbered unit caravan motion and even before that it was utilized as a measure of control. Wasn't it It Shaffer that said audibly on the recording after the motor home issue got overwhelmingly voted down that this will not be the end of it and we think we have won? And who was trying to get the alternative club provision for members to pass motions without going through the IBT removed as unnecessary and little used?! And now I am reading that PIPs are feigning membership requirements to remain in their influential places in the club. There is a word that covers all of those kinds of things. It is called CHEATING! Expelling outspoken members for being vocal about unethical practices and denying them recourse for self defense and ironically citing them for breaking the code of ethics is another item that clearly is a miscarriage of their execution of the duties of their offices.
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