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Old 01-21-2012, 12:53 PM   #953
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$500 for five plus days of RV'ing fun is relative. I took my son to a NY Rangers hockey game last week - cost for the two of us - $500+ for two hours of fun and priceless memories.
Of course, and that was my point. It is relative. Airstreams and Airstreamers come in all sizes and shapes and incomes and what is minimal to some is out of reach for others. I can't put up the IBT subsidy in exchange for a Blue Beret and an index. It's not relevent to me. Just sayin'.
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Old 01-21-2012, 01:10 PM   #954
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It appears that Thor and the WBCCI International would very much like to have this modification of acceptable ownership. If so, why don't they remove the Four Winds graphics on a few models and replace it with Airstream? Doesn't seem all that difficult.
Rag,

I don't see any evidence Thor wants this amendment to pass. They have been asked by the WBCCI leaders to market Airstream MH's by rebadging Thor MH's, but have refused. They may feel it is a bad marketing decision. Thor uses Airstream as a premium brand leading the Thor lineup. You can argue whether Airstream is truly "premium", but it appears other Thor brands definitely aren't. Rebadging a mediocre MH as a premium one without expensive upgrades cheapens the brand reputation of Airstream. It is also unclear there is much of a market for Airstream MH's—they made them until about 2004 and quit, probably because they didn't sell well.

You can attend "buddy rallies" that some WBCCI units have. We have attended 2 and although the rallies were fun, we see no reason to send money to the WBCCI leaders to continue to do what they do. The disputes are highly politicized. Nuvi's statement about the hierarchical nature of the club is true from all evidence I see in the numerous threads about the WBCCI. That works for some, but fewer and fewer today. But, not only is it hierarchical, but the leaders seem to stack the deck to maintain power and stifle dissent. But no one should minimize the importance of friendships people have within their units. That's why many stay in the WBCCI even though they have no respect for the leadership. Even friendships aren't enough, given how many members have left.

There is also an issue about the demographics of various units. Some are stodgy and/or have ineffective leadership. Some are run militaristically, others not. Some have entertainment characterized by Lawrence Welkian music. But other units are informal and those are the ones that do best. The rallies we have attended were both organized by the informal Four Corners Unit and were fine. One was the annual Albuquerque balloon fiesta—an extraordinary experience. It wasn't cheap either, but the event was a lot better than an International Rally from what I've read.

So, go to some buddy rallies, go to some TAC rallies, some Forum rallies, and find out what you can about people and Airstreams through the Forum. We mostly travel on our own, but have met a number of good people through the Forum.

You probably have noticed the debate in WBCCI threads can get pretty nasty. There are people at all places of the spectrum on this. After a while you can figure out who to listen to and who not to.

Gene
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Old 01-21-2012, 01:10 PM   #955
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Actually, that was what was proposed in 2007. Thor was going to bring out an "Airstream Edition" and call it an Airstream for membership purposes. (But Airstream dealers weren't going to sell them or service them.) After that idea got voted down Thor lost interest in the project.
.
If it were only an "Airstream Edition" of a Four Winds, etc, why would the dealers care? It's not like they wouldn't be taking on a new product line, just new graphics.

There's a tradition at stake and potentially dying here, and I believe it's wrong. It seems the older Life-Time Members don't have the respect for tradition I would have expected from them; sad.

Oh well, there's always the "Workhorse Club".
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Old 01-21-2012, 01:19 PM   #956
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@CrawfordGene

Your insight and thoughts are greatly appreciated.

I stated Thor, as they were the only other acceptable coaches for membership; therefore additional sales may be realized. Seems self-serving.

If indeed Thor quality is questionable, why would current members want to purchase an inferior product? Do you sacrifice "quality" to remain in a club?
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Old 01-21-2012, 01:30 PM   #957
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Rag

Thor has strongly indicated that they would have no interest in rebadging their product. With out their support of course it won't happen. If I personally were to buy a rebadged thor product I would expect it to be sold through an Airstream dealer and serviced by the same. It appears that there are reasons THOR doesn't see that as a good way to go.
Thor also at one point asked for commitments from members to buy one of these units. Apparently they did not get the commitment they needed.

The leadership does not appear to be interested in a non voting non office holding compromise even though we have members at large, owning Airstreams that are not allowed to vote or hold office.

Based on your location you might want to consider the TAC Birthday Bash rally being held in Pennsylvania this summer or the Pocono raceway rally if it is being held again this year. Both are non WBCCI Airstream events.
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Old 01-21-2012, 01:47 PM   #958
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Rag

Based on your location you might want to consider the TAC Birthday Bash rally being held in Pennsylvania this summer or the Pocono raceway rally if it is being held again this year. Both are non WBCCI Airstream events.
I embarrassed to say that even though my "Home-20" is 15 minutes from Pocono Int. Raceway, I have no idea what the "TAC Birthday Bash" is. Can you explain to refer?
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Old 01-21-2012, 01:53 PM   #959
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If indeed Thor quality is questionable, why would current members want to purchase an inferior product? Do you sacrifice "quality" to remain in a club?
People buy inferior products every day.

Some do it because they don't have the money for better quality. Walmart wouldn't exist otherwise.

Sometimes they buy low quality after convincing themselves because they like it, it must be good.

Sometimes they have always bought a specific brand because they always have and maybe their parents did too. What would explain the sales of US cars and trucks for decades despite poor quality compared to competition from Japan?

Sometimes they never have had good quality and don't know what they are missing.

And a new Thor MH may be in better shape than a 10- or 15-year-old Airstream MH. It may be bigger, have more TV's, slides, Corian countertops…. The people who want these may not care much about quality since they may have plenty of money to have someone fix them.

And they may sacrifice quality to remain in power. Do not underestimate the corruptive influence of power.

Gene
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Old 01-21-2012, 01:57 PM   #960
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I embarrassed to say that even though my "Home-20" is 15 minutes from Pocono Int. Raceway, I have no idea what the "TAC Birthday Bash" is. Can you explain to refer?
Pocono 500 will happen this year. There is a thread here for the past two events. Leo will provide details for this years Rally some time in the spring.

Our circle was visited by Rutlege of Top Gear fame and Kyle Petty...

30 Minutes You'll Never Get Back Replay: Pocono - August 06, 2011 - NASCAR.COM Video

For sure we need another moho in our group.
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Old 01-21-2012, 01:59 PM   #961
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I embarrassed to say that even though my "Home-20" is 15 minutes from Pocono Int. Raceway, I have no idea what the "TAC Birthday Bash" is. Can you explain to refer?
"TAC" stands for "The Airstreamers Club", a club-that's-not-a-club that hosts a variety of rallies. See the "other clubs" category on Airforums for further information on the subject. Membership is free.

Wally Byam's birthday is July 4, and the Birthday Bash is TAC's annual competition to the WBCCI International Rally that takes place at the same time. (They originally called it the Wally Byam Birthday Bash until WBCCI threatened to sue them for trademark or copyright infringement.)

See this link http://www.airforums.com/forums/f290...2-a-79553.html
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:32 PM   #962
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This is GREAT info, thanks!

Is Pocono an annual TAC event? A bad medical year kept me from NASCAR Pocono last year, but this year's lookin' much better. Is the TAC Circle in the infield of of the track?
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:46 PM   #963
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This is GREAT info, thanks!

Is Pocono an annual TAC event? A bad medical year kept me from NASCAR Pocono last year, but this years lookin' much better. Is the TAC Circle in the infield of of the track?
This is not a TAC event. It is organized by Leo who maintains a loose group called Northeast Airstream Owners.

The Airstream gathering at Pocono is in the infield. We are provided with in and out access all weekend. In true Rally fashion, we have a central tent setup and breakfasts are provided each morning. Last year the event was attended by Wally's first cousin once removed - Pee Wee = who shared wonderful Airstream tales of days gone by.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:07 AM   #964
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Stop making assumptions on the number of our members, when you are not a member of WDCU.

thanks!
Sonia
Sonia, I said about 90, it is actually as of now 73 paid and 18 not yet renewed.

Or 91, one need not be a member it is public info.

I was not that far of

My point was that a larger unit should have figured out a way to get those votes counted.

I hope you figure a way this year.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:13 AM   #965
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People buy inferior products every day.

Sometimes they never have had good quality and don't know what they are missing.

And a new Thor MH may be in better shape than a 10- or 15-year-old Airstream MH. It may be bigger, have more TV's, slides, Corian countertop
Gene
Gene I went to the Tampa RV show recently, had to look at one one of those at $225K, really not any quality at all, the main table was shaky and cheaply made.
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Old 01-23-2012, 10:02 AM   #966
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Gene I went to the Tampa RV show recently, had to look at one one of those at $225K, really not any quality at all, the main table was shaky and cheaply made.
We went to the Albuquerque RV show a couple of weeks ago. Some RV's were decent quality, some not. Designs were often from another era. Prices seemed low compared to several years ago. Now some have 1/2 baths and a full bath and outside TV's. There wasn't anything that appealed to us and a lot seemed over the top. The others looking at them seemed impressed with stuff we wouldn't touch.

For many it is not quality that matters, but whatever appeals to them on a gut level—ultimate comfort and hollow luxury seem to be big sellers.

I have no idea whether the WBCCI leadership has bad taste in RV's or doesn't care about quality, but it does seem they do like "new". New trumps Airstream.

Oh, my main table also is a little shaky and cheaply made.

Gene
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