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Old 01-18-2012, 04:37 PM   #911
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Be sure to note that the units in favor of the amendments will be there to vote.!!! If your unit does not care or know, I think this will ensure passage. No? jim
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Old 01-18-2012, 05:51 PM   #912
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Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
At this point everyone that wants the amendment defeated should be talking about how their individual units are planning to debate this issue and vote on it.

Threats that you will not renew-meaningless.

Take that attitude to your units delegate, it is only that persons power to to cast your units vote that matters. (make sure you have a delegate attending[an affiliate member may stand in])

I would only ad that the proponent of the amendment should also be made aware of your individual opinion, venting here is accomplishing little especially by non members

Now what have you done in that regard.


.
An affiliate member may represent your unit, but the affiliate member must also be a regular member of a unit in the same region and can not be representing any other unit at the delegates meeting. They will also need to have the proper documentation signed by the unit president to be seated.
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Old 01-18-2012, 06:07 PM   #913
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It has been stated that 2/3 of the units present may pass an amendment and that 2/3 of all units in the club may pass an amendment. This is contradictory and I have seen it stated both ways for quite some time.

If it is 2/3 of units present, what if a unit is there, but has no qualified delegate accepted by whomever accepts them?

If it is 2/3 of all units, it would be more difficult to pass anything, and, therefore, it is probably 2/3 of those attending.

I know some people on these threads can cite section and paragraph numbers to answer specific questions—answer please?

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Old 01-18-2012, 06:12 PM   #914
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If a unit does NOT vote on this or does NOT send a delegate is it safe to assume that this is a NO vote and helpful to our cause?? This would require a 2/3 yes vote to pass??
Rick I believe that no vote would be counted as an abstention.
Therefore, only the ya's Vs. nay's count.
The standard 2/3 vote is of the members who voted, 2/3 of the members present.

from RONR

The phrase “abstention votes” is an oxymoron, an abstention being a refusal to vote. To abstain means to refrain from voting, and, as a consequence, there can be no such thing as an “abstention vote.”

In the usual situation, where either a majority vote or a two-thirds vote is required, abstentions have absolutely no effect on the outcome of the vote since what is required is either a majority or two thirds of the votes cast. On the other hand, if the vote required is a majority or two thirds of the members present, or a majority or two thirds of the entire membership, an abstention will have the same effect as a “no” vote. Even in such a case, however, an abstention is not a vote and is not counted as a vote. [RONR (11th ed.), p. 400, ll. 7-12; p. 401, ll. 8-11; p. 403, ll. 13-24; see also p. 66 of RONRIB.]
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Old 01-18-2012, 06:36 PM   #915
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Bob, most organizations have their own way of counting votes and determining how to deal with abstentions. Sometimes it is the same as Robert's, sometimes not.

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Old 01-18-2012, 06:37 PM   #916
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If it's not stated in the bylaws, RONR is procedure
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Old 01-18-2012, 06:55 PM   #917
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It has been stated that 2/3 of the units present may pass an amendment and that 2/3 of all units in the club may pass an amendment. This is contradictory and I have seen it stated both ways for quite some time.
. . .

I know some people on these threads can cite section and paragraph numbers to answer specific questions—answer please?
Statements of 2/3 of the units represented at the Delegates Meeting and 2/3 of all units are not contradictory, they just refer to two different ways of amending the constitution.

Amendments in accordance with Article XVI, Section 1 are voted on by the units (or not, as the case may be) entirely separately from the Delegates Meeting. 2/3 of the units must ratify the amendment in order for it to pass.

This is the route by which Forrest's "DenCO" or "Region 11" amendment, whichever you wish to call it is following. At this juncture it appears unlikely to pass, not because of units voting against it, but rather because of units ignoring it.

Amendments in accordance with Article XVI, Section 2 are voted on at the Delegates Meeting and can be passed by a 2/3 vote of the units represented at the meeting.

Article XII, Section 6 establishes the quorum for the Delegates Meeting at only 20% of the eligible delegates. A constitutional revision could be passed by a very small number of units if few enough units sent delegates.

The WBCCI constitution is available on the WBCCI web site for anyone who wants to see it.

At this time units do not know what will be on the agenda for this year's Delegates meeting. Article XVI Section 2 requires proposed constitutional amendments to be submitted to the units no later than April 1, which is a ways off. The big question for this year will be whether the whole Revised Constitution placed on the agenda last year, and then withdrawn at the last minute, will again appear. (My sympathy to the delegates if it does.)
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Old 01-18-2012, 07:07 PM   #918
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I know our unit president speaks for unit 024-No moho of any form
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Old 01-18-2012, 07:27 PM   #919
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Question Life Members?

Personally, before any vote was taken, I would like to see the actual number of how many life members there are right now that own a motorhome. I mean, just how many members is this really going to affect? What is their average age? Will they be driving many more years?

Since the amendment states "life members currently owning a motorhome", then that's where we need to concentrate the facts and figures. It doesn't say anything about becoming a life member after this motion is passed.

And as for membership loss - in our own unit this year, we had one death, one with medical problems, two that sold their Airstreams and moved into retirement communities to be closer to grandchildren, one that met a guy on a caravan and moved to his area, and two with young families that have been affected by the economic situation.

We have since gained four new members. We expect to be even by the end of the year.
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:43 PM   #920
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If you call Cindy Reed at Jackson Center she can answer your question on how many life members own Airstream motor homes. She gave me the list of all 450 motorhome owners last year. The list of life members is also available in the same data base. The database can not tell you their age or whether they would be interested in buying a new Thor motorhome.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:53 PM   #921
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Dwight, that list may have a skew to it. HQ lists us as owning a Globe Trotter.
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:56 AM   #922
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The ECC has recommended buying a more effective database program for HQ usage and it has been approved by the IBT. I am not sure we intend to put the full demographics of the all the members into that database. Keeping it up to date could become a full time job. I am not sure how much money it would cost us or the positive value we would receive from the additional work. We currently are having difficulty making sure the members keep their "ever changing" Email addresses up to date. Airforums at least lists up to 5 trailers plus the Tow Vehicle. I am not sure whether that is searchable.
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Old 01-19-2012, 09:29 AM   #923
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Nuvi, thanks for the clarification.

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Old 01-19-2012, 11:39 AM   #924
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The Constitution says it takes a 2/3 vote of the members, represented by the delegates and voting at the at the delegates' meeting, to adopt an amendment. The question remains, is an abstention vote by an individual is counted as a "vote" or not. If Robert's is followed then an abstention is a "non-vote" but it would still require twice as many yes votes as no votes to pass the amendment. Abstentions would not be counted.

I think the no's will have it again and the SOB motorhome minority will try again in another couple years.
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