WBCCI MOHO issue - 2010 to 2012

[wkerfoot]

What you are missing is that there a few members who cannot stand to be without WBCCI and do not want to buy a trailer. As the saying goes, they must not have a life.

Bill

Originally Posted by RAG

Well stated and appreciated. I would have to agree with the current standard and not the proposed allowance of other brands.

IMHO, this sounds like a "no brainer"; am I missing something?

[RAG]

Originally Posted by wkerfoot

What you are missing is that there a few members who cannot stand to be without WBCCI and do not want to buy a trailer. As the saying goes, they must not have a life.

Has anyone proposed an "Associate Membership" for these individuals who have been Life-Time Members? One that would come with no voting rights or ability to hold office.

Just a thought.......

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by RAG

IMHO, this sounds like a "no brainer"; am I missing something?

I think most members would agree with you. But there is an enormous gulf between the International officers and most of the membership. This is partly a consequence of the strongly hierarchical organization of the club.
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[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by RAG

Has anyone proposed an "Associate Membership" for these individuals who have been Life-Time Members? One that would come with no voting rights or ability to hold office.

This idea was proposed, but rejected by the Motor Home Committee, which further judged those who proposed it to be "extremely biased and prejudicial".
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[RAG]

Originally Posted by Nuvite-F

This idea was proposed, but rejected by the Motor Home Committee, which further judged those who proposed it to be "biased and prejudicial".
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Don't know who the Motor Home Committee might be, but if a thought of compromise is valued as "biased and prejudicial", I guess it's a badge I'd have to wear with honor.

Oh well.......

[munimula]

Originally Posted by RAG

Don't know who the Motor Home Committee might be, but if a thought of compromise is valued as "biased and prejudicial", I guess it's a badge I'd have to wear with honor.

Oh well.......

RAG the members of the MOHO Committee is public and can be found somewhere at wbcci.org.

As an aside, my Unit - Watchung NJ - is geographically pleasing to where you live. We have a member base that stretches from coastal NC to Saratoga, NY. The bulk of our member base resides in Northern NJ and we have a couple of member families who call PA home. Our first Rally of the season is April 20-22 at Pine Hill RV Park in Kutztown, PA.

I invite you and yours to camp with us for the weekend and get to know us "Hillbillies" a bit better. Our Unit in the midst of developing a program where new prospective members can enjoy a weekend with us at no cost. It will most likely be a lottery system so stay tuned here at the forums and at watchungunit.org. Our Unit newsletters are posted at our site. These monthly missives offer a glimpse into our Unit goings on as well. Hope to meet you down the road.

--Dave
WBCCI #6481

[Bill M.]

Join the group. go to some local unit rallies. go on a caravan if you are retired or otherwise can go. then make a decision on the club. if you can participate, the caravans are the strength of WBCCI.
Motorhome amendment was up when we joined. no big deal. in the short run nothing much will happen if it passes, nothing much will happen if it fails. Club works fine. fairly inexpensive, good units, a totally unique way of running almost professional but not commercial caravans. (kitty system, insurance, good documentation, great leaders)

[wheel interested]

Originally Posted by Bill M.

Join the group. go to some local unit rallies. go on a caravan if you are retired or otherwise can go. then make a decision on the club. if you can participate, the caravans are the strength of WBCCI.
Motorhome amendment was up when we joined. no big deal. in the short run nothing much will happen if it passes, nothing much will happen if it fails. Club works fine. fairly inexpensive, good units, a totally unique way of running almost professional but not commercial caravans. (kitty system, insurance, good documentation, great leaders)

It may be fairly inexpensive for caravans on a lengthy per day comparison to other clubs, however I don't feel nearly $100.00 for dues and $500.00 to attend the International rally is anything other than quite pricey!

[munimula]

Originally Posted by wheel interested

It may be fairly inexpensive for caravans on a lengthy per day comparison to other clubs, however I don't feel nearly $100.00 for dues and $500.00 to attend the International rally is anything other than quite pricey!

$500 for five plus days of RV'ing fun is relative. I took my son to a NY Rangers hockey game last week - cost for the two of us - $500+ for two hours of fun and priceless memories.

[RAG]

It appears that Thor and the WBCCI International would very much like to have this modification of acceptable ownership. If so, why don't they remove the Four Winds graphics on a few models and replace it with Airstream? Doesn't seem all that difficult.

As a previous member of a Corvette Club, I can tell you clearly, there were no Ferraris allowed!

Perhaps this is oversimplification.

[munimula]

Originally Posted by RAG

why don't they remove the Four Winds graphics on a few models and replace it with Airstream? Doesn't seem all that difficult.

It's my understanding that re-badging is a dealer and warranty quagmire, I'm sure those matters can get real sticky for all involved. Airstream specific dealers do not sell other Thor products per say.

--Dave

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by RAG

It appears that Thor and the WBCCI International would very much like to have this modification of acceptable ownership. If so, why don't they remove the Four Winds graphics on a few models and replace it with Airstream? Doesn't seem all that difficult.

Actually, that was what was proposed in 2007. Thor was going to bring out an "Airstream Edition" and call it an Airstream for membership purposes. (But Airstream dealers weren't going to sell them or service them.) After that idea got voted down Thor lost interest in the project.
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[wheel interested]

Originally Posted by munimula

$500 for five plus days of RV'ing fun is relative. I took my son to a NY Rangers hockey game last week - cost for the two of us - $500+ for two hours of fun and priceless memories.

Of course, and that was my point. It is relative. Airstreams and Airstreamers come in all sizes and shapes and incomes and what is minimal to some is out of reach for others. I can't put up the IBT subsidy in exchange for a Blue Beret and an index. It's not relevent to me. Just sayin'.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by RAG

It appears that Thor and the WBCCI International would very much like to have this modification of acceptable ownership. If so, why don't they remove the Four Winds graphics on a few models and replace it with Airstream? Doesn't seem all that difficult.

Rag,

I don't see any evidence Thor wants this amendment to pass. They have been asked by the WBCCI leaders to market Airstream MH's by rebadging Thor MH's, but have refused. They may feel it is a bad marketing decision. Thor uses Airstream as a premium brand leading the Thor lineup. You can argue whether Airstream is truly "premium", but it appears other Thor brands definitely aren't. Rebadging a mediocre MH as a premium one without expensive upgrades cheapens the brand reputation of Airstream. It is also unclear there is much of a market for Airstream MH's—they made them until about 2004 and quit, probably because they didn't sell well.

You can attend "buddy rallies" that some WBCCI units have. We have attended 2 and although the rallies were fun, we see no reason to send money to the WBCCI leaders to continue to do what they do. The disputes are highly politicized. Nuvi's statement about the hierarchical nature of the club is true from all evidence I see in the numerous threads about the WBCCI. That works for some, but fewer and fewer today. But, not only is it hierarchical, but the leaders seem to stack the deck to maintain power and stifle dissent. But no one should minimize the importance of friendships people have within their units. That's why many stay in the WBCCI even though they have no respect for the leadership. Even friendships aren't enough, given how many members have left.

There is also an issue about the demographics of various units. Some are stodgy and/or have ineffective leadership. Some are run militaristically, others not. Some have entertainment characterized by Lawrence Welkian music. But other units are informal and those are the ones that do best. The rallies we have attended were both organized by the informal Four Corners Unit and were fine. One was the annual Albuquerque balloon fiesta—an extraordinary experience. It wasn't cheap either, but the event was a lot better than an International Rally from what I've read.

So, go to some buddy rallies, go to some TAC rallies, some Forum rallies, and find out what you can about people and Airstreams through the Forum. We mostly travel on our own, but have met a number of good people through the Forum.

You probably have noticed the debate in WBCCI threads can get pretty nasty. There are people at all places of the spectrum on this. After a while you can figure out who to listen to and who not to.

Gene

[RAG]

Originally Posted by Nuvite-F

Actually, that was what was proposed in 2007. Thor was going to bring out an "Airstream Edition" and call it an Airstream for membership purposes. (But Airstream dealers weren't going to sell them or service them.) After that idea got voted down Thor lost interest in the project.
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If it were only an "Airstream Edition" of a Four Winds, etc, why would the dealers care? It's not like they wouldn't be taking on a new product line, just new graphics.

There's a tradition at stake and potentially dying here, and I believe it's wrong. It seems the older Life-Time Members don't have the respect for tradition I would have expected from them; sad.

Oh well, there's always the "Workhorse Club".

[RAG]

@CrawfordGene

Your insight and thoughts are greatly appreciated.

I stated Thor, as they were the only other acceptable coaches for membership; therefore additional sales may be realized. Seems self-serving.

If indeed Thor quality is questionable, why would current members want to purchase an inferior product? Do you sacrifice "quality" to remain in a club?

[RickDavis]

Rag

Thor has strongly indicated that they would have no interest in rebadging their product. With out their support of course it won't happen. If I personally were to buy a rebadged thor product I would expect it to be sold through an Airstream dealer and serviced by the same. It appears that there are reasons THOR doesn't see that as a good way to go.
Thor also at one point asked for commitments from members to buy one of these units. Apparently they did not get the commitment they needed.

The leadership does not appear to be interested in a non voting non office holding compromise even though we have members at large, owning Airstreams that are not allowed to vote or hold office.

Based on your location you might want to consider the TAC Birthday Bash rally being held in Pennsylvania this summer or the Pocono raceway rally if it is being held again this year. Both are non WBCCI Airstream events.

[RAG]

Originally Posted by RickDavis

Rag

Based on your location you might want to consider the TAC Birthday Bash rally being held in Pennsylvania this summer or the Pocono raceway rally if it is being held again this year. Both are non WBCCI Airstream events.

I embarrassed to say that even though my "Home-20" is 15 minutes from Pocono Int. Raceway, I have no idea what the "TAC Birthday Bash" is. Can you explain to refer?

[Gene]

Originally Posted by RAG

If indeed Thor quality is questionable, why would current members want to purchase an inferior product? Do you sacrifice "quality" to remain in a club?

People buy inferior products every day.

Some do it because they don't have the money for better quality. Walmart wouldn't exist otherwise.

Sometimes they buy low quality after convincing themselves because they like it, it must be good.

Sometimes they have always bought a specific brand because they always have and maybe their parents did too. What would explain the sales of US cars and trucks for decades despite poor quality compared to competition from Japan?

Sometimes they never have had good quality and don't know what they are missing.

And a new Thor MH may be in better shape than a 10- or 15-year-old Airstream MH. It may be bigger, have more TV's, slides, Corian countertops…. The people who want these may not care much about quality since they may have plenty of money to have someone fix them.

And they may sacrifice quality to remain in power. Do not underestimate the corruptive influence of power.

Gene

[munimula]

Originally Posted by RAG

I embarrassed to say that even though my "Home-20" is 15 minutes from Pocono Int. Raceway, I have no idea what the "TAC Birthday Bash" is. Can you explain to refer?

Pocono 500 will happen this year. There is a thread here for the past two events. Leo will provide details for this years Rally some time in the spring.

Our circle was visited by Rutlege of Top Gear fame and Kyle Petty...

30 Minutes You'll Never Get Back Replay: Pocono - August 06, 2011 - NASCAR.COM Video

For sure we need another moho in our group.