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Old 10-19-2011, 07:50 PM   #659
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If the Amendment is revised to 1) only apply to current Lifetime Members, and 2) make the membership non-voting and non-office holding, then I think it is fair. Otherwise, I vote NO.
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:56 PM   #660
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If the Amendment is revised to 1) only apply to current Lifetime Members, and 2) make the membership non-voting and non-office holding, then I think it is fair. Otherwise, I vote NO.
I'd guess if it fails again, they may finally give in and make it non-voting/non-officer. Lots of people (myself included) have advocated that change. I'm confident that they could have gotten THAT passed the first time it was introduced, I don't think anyone is interested in throwing long-time members out of the club, just keeping it an Airstream club, and therefore any official representative of the club should be traveling in an Airstream product.
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:26 PM   #661
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Don't forget that IPs are given a life membership at the end of their term.

Although I don't agree with your suggestion, should not it also apply to future Airstream motor home owners and not just the current 700 or so?

Does the not-office holding members include the unit, region offices and committee chairs?

Bill

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If the Amendment is revised to 1) only apply to current Lifetime Members, and 2) make the membership non-voting and non-office holding, then I think it is fair. Otherwise, I vote NO.
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:02 PM   #662
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I didn't say Motorhome owners.

Those who became Lifetime Members when Airstream made Motorhomes, have a reasonable case for continued membership.

In fact, perhaps my previous suggestion
should be amended.

Those who were Lifetime Members when Airstream discontinued building Motorhomes should be permitted to continue as members. That should even apply to those Lifetime Members who left since the change. However, they should NOT have any voice in the direction of an Airstream Owners Club!
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:24 PM   #663
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I didn't say Motorhome owners.

Those who were Lifetime Members when Airstream discontinued building Motorhomes should be permitted to continue as members. That should even apply to those Lifetime Members who left since the change. However, they should NOT have any voice in the direction of an Airstream Owners Club!
Basically, they should have the same privileges as MAL's. Who DO own Airstreams and also pay a premium price to not have privileges
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Old 10-19-2011, 11:35 PM   #664
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There are only 450 current members who are registered with in the Jackson Center Database as owning motorhomes. That includes the B class units.
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Old 10-20-2011, 05:42 AM   #665
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How many Lifetime Members?
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Old 10-20-2011, 08:41 AM   #666
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The list gets longer and longer. current Life members, current MH owners, all Past International Presidents, and the ringer those that will sign up for Life membership the minute this passes with an enactment date in the future.

Now the questions of lesser International Officers, region officers, and committee chairs are in the mix.

If a PIP is granted Life Membership and thus the right to own a MH would he loose any or all privileges of that position if limits of ownership apply to other none officer MH owners?

Think this through. It is not the nose of a camel it is the longer nose of an aardvark. The tongue is far reaching.
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Old 10-20-2011, 08:52 AM   #667
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mbmbstreamer, good question. Another classification to look at, is how many Class A Airstream owners are Classics? And how many members aren't counted since HQ has never been notified they owne a Class A.
We now own a 1984 270 for over 2 years, but 11 years ago we owned a 1999 Cutter diesel.
Airstream Customer Service still has us documented as owners of the Cutter diesel, and at every International we have been to we look for Cutter, but have never seen it. It was Coach #710622 We did some subtle identifing things to it. Moved the Airstream mongram mudflaps forward added truck flaps to the rear, added roadside docking lights and installed a detachable shorepower cord with yellow screw-on connection coach-side. Inside, we added a Combo Splendide washer/dryer, and removed the booth dinnette for free standing chairs. Underneath mid-body, we added a spare tire. The Club lists we have only the '67 GT.
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Old 10-20-2011, 11:03 AM   #668
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How many Lifetime Members?
Ir would be interesting to know how many lifetime members with motorhomes AFTER deducting all the past IP's. The number keeps shrinking.
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Old 10-20-2011, 12:07 PM   #669
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I think it is a good idea to be fair, but defining fair is not easy.

It has been argued that MH owners who bought when Airstream badged MH's (seems like they didn't really build them, just modified a Thor MH to look somewhat Airstream) should be permitted to stay in an Airstream club if they buy a Thor MH. That seems fair unless you argue that they should have been aware that Airstream could stop badging MH's at any time. There were never any guarantees they would keep selling MH's forever.

They could keep maintaining their old Airstream MH's, but that could be expensive—is fairness determined by how much someone has to pay to keep their MH running? But if they just want more slide outs, more TV's and other options, is their desire for more toys something that subtracts from fairness?

Or it could be argued, and often is, it is not fair to club members who joined an Airstream only club to have it become an mostly Airstream club. Actually, many people who have joined the club probably didn't know there once were Airstream MH's, and maybe it is not fair to have any MH's in the club. Maybe it should be an Airstream trailer club. Maybe only RV's built entirely in an Airstream factory should determine who can be members of the club. Fairness arguments could be made for those approaches too.

Fairness is often a blurry concept—a matter of opinion or rationalization.

So, if fairness can be argued to justify all arguments, maybe the only question is whether you want an Airstream only club, or an Airstream mostly club? I can argue that my conclusion is reductionism, but will refrain.

Gene
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Old 10-20-2011, 12:28 PM   #670
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Gene,

Airstream motorhomes, not to be confused with the B vans, were made in the Airstream factory, Argosy motorhomes probably in Versailles, OH (but I don't know) and not a modified Thor motorhome. Airstream and Argosy trailers were made in California, Jackson Center or Versailles, OH. The B vans are modified Ford, Chevrolet or Mercedes/Dodge vans.

Bill

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I think it is a good idea to be fair, but defining fair is not easy.

It has been argued that MH owners who bought when Airstream badged MH's (seems like they didn't really build them, just modified a Thor MH to look somewhat Airstream) should be permitted to stay in an Airstream club if they buy a Thor MH. That seems fair unless you argue that they should have been aware that Airstream could stop badging MH's at any time. There were never any guarantees they would keep selling MH's forever.

They could keep maintaining their old Airstream MH's, but that could be expensive—is fairness determined by how much someone has to pay to keep their MH running? But if they just want more slide outs, more TV's and other options, is their desire for more toys something that subtracts from fairness?

Or it could be argued, and often is, it is not fair to club members who joined an Airstream only club to have it become an mostly Airstream club. Actually, many people who have joined the club probably didn't know there once were Airstream MH's, and maybe it is not fair to have any MH's in the club. Maybe it should be an Airstream trailer club. Maybe only RV's built entirely in an Airstream factory should determine who can be members of the club. Fairness arguments could be made for those approaches too.

Fairness is often a blurry concept—a matter of opinion or rationalization.

So, if fairness can be argued to justify all arguments, maybe the only question is whether you want an Airstream only club, or an Airstream mostly club? I can argue that my conclusion is reductionism, but will refrain.

Gene
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Old 10-20-2011, 12:43 PM   #671
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Gene,

Airstream motorhomes, not to be confused with the B vans, were made in the Airstream factory, Argosy motorhomes probably in Versailles, OH (but I don't know) and not a modified Thor motorhome. Airstream and Argosy trailers were made in California, Jackson Center or Versailles, OH. The B vans are modified Ford, Chevrolet or Mercedes/Dodge vans.

Bill
Were even the flat-sided Airstream motorhomes made at Jackson Center? I've wondered about that... it made sense that the aluminum-bodied Classic motorhomes were, but the flat-sided ones that you can't tell are Airstreams until you read the badge seem much more like normal motorhomes.
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Old 10-20-2011, 12:48 PM   #672
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Over the years there have been changes to add different products to the club.
When I joined it was only trailers. Motorhomes,Argosy, B Van, Integrity fifth wheel etc were added at different times, with lots of debate each time until the constitution was revised to Hard sided products made by Airstream. At one point I recall that there had to be a revision to eliminate the words "self contained" to technically allow some of the oldest vintage units, although I don't think the self contained thing was ever pushed.
The one common thread was they are all Airstream products. Of course a Thor is not. I see no reason to allow Thor in with out allowing all the rest also. As far as I know we get little support from Thor so why should we feel any allegiance to them?
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