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Old 07-11-2011, 12:05 PM   #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwgreen View Post
With respect to Kerfoot et al, this concerns CHANGE. If you don't want change (as in membership eligibility), then you regard tradition and maintenance of the status quo as you highest priority and act accordingly. While doing so, you denigrate anyone who's opinion or desire for change is different from yours and support your position with endless tirades about future gloom and doom should a change be implemented that's contrary to your views (or opinions). If you were a buggy whip manufacturer back in the early 1900's, you'd act in the same way when you hear that horseless carriages might be coming soon.

On the other hand, it is possible to embrace change that can produce a positive outcome. That would require some creativity or even innovative thinking, a behavior that would not be consistent with being a naysayer. It requires more work than just sitting on the side and making frequent and repetitive unkind remarks about officers wardrobes and other traditions. Where's the benefit to improve the club when the remarks are meant to ridicule while containing nothing of a suggestion on how to improved. It's easy to be a critic but it takes work to be innovative and creative.

My WBCCI membership should not be construed to mean approval in all the actions taking place at international. I do, however, understand that my views can be heard and if not used or implemented, I'll accept it.
jw,

Your argument, while you have every right to express it, sorely missed the point. WBCCI is a single brand RV club! It is NOT FMCA, Good Sam, Escapees or any other multi-brand organization. The club's focus is on AIRSTREAM manufactured RVs and should remain there. There are many other venues available for those who want to join multi-brand organizations.

I have been a member of WBCCI and left when it became apparent that those at the top were running the club as their own private fiefdom. The comments about 'mere members' by a PIP said it all for me! I am also a member of FMCA (both personal and commercial), Foretravel Motorcade Club, Beaver Motorhome Club and commercial affiliate for several others.

Let me say emphatically that neither the Foretravel club nor the Beaver club would ever consider allowing ANY OTHER BRAND OF RV INTO THEIR SINGLE BRANDED CLUBS. This is NOT what they are about and their members know that there will be no 'special circumstances' put into play if they decide to buy another brand of RV. The WBCCI should take the hint and remain the oldest single brand RV club in the US!

This is NOT about nay-saying. It is a desire to maintain the integrity of THE OLDEST SINGLE BRAND RV CLUB in the US. Buy an Airstream or join another club. There are many other choices!!!!!
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:16 PM   #450
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Originally Posted by cooperhawk View Post
We have belonged to the FMCA for many years with our Airstream and been to their Rallys. Nice bunch of people.
I think the context of HowieE's post is in regard to Airstream travel trailers, not Airstream Motorhomes. Your post and another make it sound as though FMCA welcomes trailers when they don't. To quote from their website: "Family Motor Coach Association is the world's largest motorhome owner's club. Our RV club is dedicated to helping motor coach owners to enjoy the motorhoming lifestyle to its fullest. If youíre passionate about motor homes and motorhoming, you should join FMCA."

I'm sure that FMCA is a great organization, full of wonderful people, but it is a motorhome group. The WBCCI started entirely as an Airstream trailer club, dedicated to trailers, run by trailer owners concerned with trailer issues. It reached its zenith as a trailer club. It's richly ironic that has changed and that motorhome owners are changing the club to suit their needs and not the needs of trailerists.

There is a difference between a motorhome lifestyle and a trailering lifestyle. If that difference were not significant then FMCA membership would be open to trailerists (and not just commercial vendors who own a trailer).
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:18 PM   #451
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jwgreen,

The change which needs to occur is to make the WBCCI more welcoming to Airstream owners, not add types of RVs to the eligibility. Airstream continues to sell units every year, yet the WBCCI is declining in membership every year, why?

Bill

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwgreen View Post
With respect to Kerfoot et al, this concerns CHANGE. If you don't want change (as in membership eligibility), then you regard tradition and maintenance of the status quo as you highest priority and act accordingly. While doing so, you denigrate anyone who's opinion or desire for change is different from yours and support your position with endless tirades about future gloom and doom should a change be implemented that's contrary to your views (or opinions). If you were a buggy whip manufacturer back in the early 1900's, you'd act in the same way when you hear that horseless carriages might be coming soon.

On the other hand, it is possible to embrace change that can produce a positive outcome. That would require some creativity or even innovative thinking, a behavior that would not be consistent with being a naysayer. It requires more work than just sitting on the side and making frequent and repetitive unkind remarks about officers wardrobes and other traditions. Where's the benefit to improve the club when the remarks are meant to ridicule while containing nothing of a suggestion on how to improved. It's easy to be a critic but it takes work to be innovative and creative.

My WBCCI membership should not be construed to mean approval in all the actions taking place at international. I do, however, understand that my views can be heard and if not used or implemented, I'll accept it.
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:32 PM   #452
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Originally Posted by jwgreen View Post
In order to be a vendor at an FMCA rally, I had to join FMCA as a commercial member. My number was C11128. They gladly accepted my $50 annual fee even though I owned a towable RV, not a motorcoach. FMCA members were some of my best customers.
I don't see being a commercial FMCA member as being the same as a regular FMCA member.

I too have attended several FMCA rallies as a commercial Vendor and stayed on the grounds with my Airstream trailer through the courtesy of the FMCA folks.. The last one being at DuQuion in the mid 70's where they issued member number 10,000

Nice folks and they treated me well.
I suspect if I try to join as a regular member with a towable they will not take my money.

I do not see the Moho issue as a people issue at all, Over the years there has been debate about letting motorhomes, Argosy, B van etc. into the club and I have supported all of those.
The common thread is they are all AIRSTREAM products. Owning an Airstream is the price of admission and it should stay that way.

Overall the folks on this forum are far more supportive of change in the club than the overall membership.

I suspect though that few favor the MOHO change.

Enough on that subject.
I will now go install the little wings on the sides of my Globetrotter and see if I can join the Shasta club
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:32 PM   #453
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"What's to be gained by continuous squabbling about trailer vs. motorhome? Nothing positive. Get over it. It's about the people and not about their RV brand. I've been parked at FMCA rallies next to a big Prevost coach one one side and a Newmar Mountain Aire 5th wheel trailer on the other side. I have enjoyed talking to both of their owners and answering their questions about my Airstream trailer."

it appears to me, and maybe others, that the reason some people are pushing to allow non-AS's in, is less a feeling of all inclusiveness and more an issue of personal comfort and power.

nobody is saying that non-AS folk are any better or worse than others.
what we ARE saying is that if a club loses that which makes it identifiable [ in this case an Airstream heritage ] than it is no longer that club.

Does the Corvette Club think any less of Ford owners?
Does the Mustang Club hate the Chevy owners?
Should your bridge club allow in people who only play poker?

see how silly this all gets?

------------------------------------------------------------------

"If you don't want change ... then you regard tradition and maintenance of the status quo as you highest priority and act accordingly"

there is change and there is CHANGE. going from AS to AS, ETC. is just that. if you don't maintain tradition, is it still a 'club' per the original intent and definition? pprobably not and that's when it time to change the name.

-------------------------------------------------

"If you were a buggy whip manufacturer back in the early 1900's, you'd act in the same way when you hear that horseless carriages might be coming soon."

- Okay, lets say you sold buggy whips and owned a carriage pulled by a full team of 6 horses. you belonged to your local carriage club, part of the national carriage club association [ the n.c.c.a.].

there were older vintage carriages from the early 1800's and some of the new, fangled models from the early 1900's [ darn gas headlamps]. every so often you and others with carriages would pick a spot, gather in a circle and swap stories and lies; advise on the best carriage hitch and how to keep the wheel bearings greased.

as an older member you have prestige, position and influence - a bit of power and you like it.

but along comes those noisy horseless carriages. one day you decide that you are getting a bit older and it's hard to control all those horses. that it much easier driving this 'auto-mobile' thing.

so you sell your rig, buy a car and - what? join other in the new ford car club? no, you still want to hang around the horse crowd and talk about flat tires and fuel injection. and, you want to keep your position of power rather then join the ford club where you are a 'newbie'.

see the issue here?

some say that we have to include non-AS's to replace the departing members. Why? Is there a special minimum number of members for it to be a club. [It only took Alfalfa, Buckwheat, Spanky and Porky to start the He Man Women-Haters Club]

are members departing becuase they can no longer handle an AS or becuase they are fed up with the non-AS silliness?

maybe if this non-AS issue was dealt with [think: reject it] unhappy members would stay and others would join.

the core remaining members would have a tighter, more-AS based outlook and would be better able to effect and affect the real changes that are needed.


Whew, that's enough ranting for a Monday. i need to find my pirate flag; isn't it five o'clock somewhere?
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:46 PM   #454
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What would Wally think?

This is how I felt in 2006 and it's how I feel about it today!
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:47 PM   #455
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Enough on that subject.
I will now go install the little wings on the sides of my Globetrotter and see if I can join the Shasta club


Why they oughta give back all their red stars if they don't want an Airstream and of course stripped of their rank. I think all leadership and membership awards should be returned after they are no longer an Airstreamer, and this particular group may even need a dishonorable discharge!

Forrest that is terrific!
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:49 PM   #456
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Enough on that subject.
I will now go install the little wings on the sides of my Globetrotter and see if I can join the Shasta club
Rich

You mention WINGS in the plural. I can't remember when I last say a Shasta with both wings. Then again I can't remember when I last saw a Shasta.
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:55 PM   #457
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Rich

You mention WINGS in the plural. I can't remember when I last say a Shasta with both wings. Then again I can't remember when i last saw a Shasta.
It seems I have seen them sitting outside an RV plant on Rt 20 in northern Indiana.

According to this article they are owned by coachman
New, improved Shasta trailer from '50s back in production
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Old 07-11-2011, 01:13 PM   #458
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The vote is almost a year away. By that time there should be another couple of thousand posts on this thread. I doubt there will be anything new to say.

It seems to me the effort should be to elect people to offices to change the organization and organize those with voting power to vote against the proposal.

Maybe a thread on how to organize to change the WBCCI would be in order.

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Old 07-11-2011, 01:22 PM   #459
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This is how I felt in 2006 and it's how I feel about it today!
Forrest an interesting picture, but somewhat misleading.

As all RVs that frequent Wal Mart as an overnight spot are acutely aware there is a growing problem of the larger MH pulling the dump valve and or setting their trash on the parking lot just before they leave.

While your picture is a joke I don't consider the increasing actions of the MH crowd a joke or an image that RVs should support.
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Old 07-11-2011, 01:39 PM   #460
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It seems to me the effort should be to elect people to offices to change the organization and organize those with voting power to vote against the proposal.

Maybe a thread on how to organize to change the WBCCI would be in order.

Gene
Gene

It seams you may have missed the effects of past efforts to elect Individuals that might support the will of the membership.

Also I find it confusing that you, a frequent poster to the action, have so soon forgotten the past years effort to gain Constitutional changes within the Club.

You may not have supported either action but please at least give them historical credit.
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Old 07-11-2011, 02:21 PM   #461
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Originally Posted by Forrest View Post
I think the context of HowieE's post is in regard to Airstream travel trailers, not Airstream Motorhomes. Your post and another make it sound as though FMCA welcomes trailers when they don't. To quote from their website: "Family Motor Coach Association is the world's largest motorhome owner's club. Our RV club is dedicated to helping motor coach owners to enjoy the motorhoming lifestyle to its fullest. If youíre passionate about motor homes and motorhoming, you should join FMCA."

I'm sure that FMCA is a great organization, full of wonderful people, but it is a motorhome group. The WBCCI started entirely as an Airstream trailer club, dedicated to trailers, run by trailer owners concerned with trailer issues. It reached its zenith as a trailer club. It's richly ironic that has changed and that motorhome owners are changing the club to suit their needs and not the needs of trailerists.

There is a difference between a motorhome lifestyle and a trailering lifestyle. If that difference were not significant then FMCA membership would be open to trailerists (and not just commercial vendors who own a trailer).
Well duuuuh! Is that why I never noticed any trailers? Oh, is that why thier name is Family Motorcoach Assn? That's kinda insulting friend. And you wonder why your membership is going in the tank.

Well, you quoted my posting which seems to have magically disappeared. Wonder how that happened.
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Old 07-11-2011, 02:24 PM   #462
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Howie, I am aware that there have been efforts to change things by moving people through the officer route. I realize the deck is stacked against reform. I am also aware of the efforts to change the constitution and that those proposals were very controversial.

That does not mean efforts to elect reformers is not a good idea if it is possible. It takes time, a lot of time is appears, but every reformer elected to something is a voice for change and maybe it will help in the long run.

Constitutional and bylaws changes are even more difficult, but also worth the effort for people who want to reform the organization. The changes should be simple, easy to understand and less controversial.

Commitment to change means long hours, politicking, and a desire to push the stubborn people opposed to change to accept that reformers will not give up no matter how long it takes.

The alternative is fighting only over MH's and no change, a declining organization and continued actions associated with powerlessness.

Gene
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