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Old 10-29-2010, 08:20 PM   #29
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Oh oh if it is WBCCI repetitious the thread will be closed, unless of course it isn't closed, in which case you fly lower than the radar or you have touched upon popularity.
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Old 10-30-2010, 11:27 AM   #30
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We think this might be a new issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by rideair View Post
As everyone knows the WBCCI IBT/EC7 has asked once again about the old MOHO issue and what needs to be done to fix it. With "SaveWally" off-line, DW on hold, the WBCCI forums shutdown and some of the key players that helped keep the WBCCI from becoming a Airstream and THOR MOHO club either kicked out of the club or off on different projects, does anyone plan to fight the IBT/EC7 on this subject or just let them have their way and maybe bring in a MOHO which may/may not be from Airstream?

Or, does anyone even care at this point?
We are pretty new members (WBCCI-1 year, AirForums 2 years), so we don't know the whole history. However at our September WBCCI rally, there was a meeting about the 20/20 Committee, and there was mention that the club is considering opening up caravans to ALL SOB MOHOs...not just Thor-made MOHOs. The Committee wanted input. We both remember it that way; however, the whole meeting quickly became quite bizarre, so perhaps we both heard it incorrectly.

Since we aren't involved in caravans, we're not sure if we care. The old caravans with Wally included many makes of trailers, so maybe this is ok. However, all trailers looked cool back then. I think it would look lame if all white-box trailers could join the caravans. You'd have a hard time spotting the A/Ss between the big fifth-wheels.
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Old 10-30-2010, 03:43 PM   #31
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I know of no initiative from the 2020 or the IBT to become a direct competitor to Good Sam with all makes allowed. Norm's speech told us that the new committee was to make Constitutional and Bylaws changes in wording but not remove any traditions or ethics committee. This spring the 2020 Committee requested we hold local meetings to address concerns of the members and make positive suggestions on how we might improve the club. Many locals held meetings and about half reported at the July Rally. Others promised to hold meetings after the caravan season and report at the next IBT meeting which will be in January. Who on the 2020 committee is said to have suggested we welcome all motorhomes and trailers?
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Old 10-30-2010, 11:43 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by bolerama View Post
We are pretty new members (WBCCI-1 year, AirForums 2 years), so we don't know the whole history. However at our September WBCCI rally, there was a meeting about the 20/20 Committee, and there was mention that the club is considering opening up caravans to ALL SOB MOHOs...not just Thor-made MOHOs. The Committee wanted input. We both remember it that way; however, the whole meeting quickly became quite bizarre, so perhaps we both heard it incorrectly.
Hi,

Since you indicated you are new to this issue I thought I might give you a brief history.

The first bit of background you need to know is that WBCCI membership has been steadily declining for the past 30 years, from a peak of about 28,000 members around 1980 to a little over 6,000 as of last June. This fact is the driving force between many of the club's controversies.

In 2003 the club took a survey of members on a number of issues related to the future of the club. One of the survey questions (in the form of a statement to be agreed or disagreed with) was,

"The WBCCI membership base should be broadened to include any RV brand made by Thor Industries, parent company of Airstream."

The responses were,

Strongly agree - 8.5%
Agree - 12.1%
Disagree - 19.3%
Strongly Disagree - 57.2%
No Opinion 2.1%

Or in round figures, 20% thought letting other Thor brand RVs into the club was a good idea, and 80% thought it was not, nearly 60% strongly disagreeing with the idea.

So opening up the club to non-Airstream brands would not appear to be a very popular idea.

The matter acquired some urgency a few years later when Airstream stopped manufacturing large Class A motor homes, leaving a considerable number of international officers currently traveling in Airstream Motor Homes without a source of replacement, if they wanted to stay in the club.

So in 2007 the international leadership proposed (and went to considerable lengths to promote) a constitutional amendment to open membership to other brands of motor homes manufactured by Thor Industries.

A constitutional amendment requires a vote of the membership, as expressed in the Delegates Meeting at the International Rally. To pass, the amendment must receive 2/3 of the vote of the membership (or units, in the case of units without proportional voting). Instead the amendment failed with about 2/3 of the membership voting against it. (Consistent with the earlier poll.)

Based on the foregoing I think you can see why this remains a contentious issue.

Now in 2010 Airstream, Inc. has offered to end the impasse by once again manufacturing Airstream-branded motor homes if enough customers (i.e. WBCCI members) would express a serious interest. I think that would be wonderful, solving the problem without requiring any change to WBCCI's constitution or single-brand identity.

As far as opening club activities--caravans--to non-Airstream RVs (presumably occupied by non-WBCCI members?), your post is the first I've heard of anything like that and I doubt it would sit well with the membership. Although we might note in passing that such a situation already exists in the form of the buddy rally permitted under WBCCI rules, whereby units can invite non-Airstream RV owning friends to a unit rally. However as I remember, units are limited to just one buddy rally per year.
.
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Old 10-31-2010, 05:10 AM   #33
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The majority of respondents to the 2003 survey were officers and former officers in the club. Even given that bias, they did not favor bringing other brands of motorhomes into the club. Today, there are 42 International and IBT officers (and former officers) who own class A motorhomes. Only very few (my guess, less than 20)of our 6,400 members are in need of a new motorhome. If those people will put their bucks where their mouths are, then maybe that will be enough to convince Airstream to make some for them. Larry Huttle did not quantify, when he made the announcement at the Swiss festival rally, just how many motorhomes would need to be committed to to convince him to make the run. Norm Beu set up a committee and authorized it to investigate whether there is enough real dollar interest. They are to report to the IBT meeting in January.

Bolerama, your posting indicates the suggested proposal would include 5th wheels and other Trailers as well? I can not see that being accepted by the majority of the current members who all own Airstreams or Argosies. I can imagine that the rally you attended did become unreal when such a proposal was presented to a large group of ardent Airstream owners.
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Old 10-31-2010, 10:47 AM   #34
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Thanks so much Nuvite and dwightdi. That really helps us understand what was happening at the first part of the meeting when the survey question was discussed and posed to the membership. However the discussion revolved around low numbers for caravans (and some having to be cancelled.) All the new members at the meeting just looked at each other and shrugged. We weren't sure what they were talking about, and none of us will be able to attend a caravan for many more years. While many units have suffered declining membership, our unit has increased steadily in the last few years, with a large number of new members in their 30s, 40s, and 50s.

dwightdi, sorry about my comment about including 5th-wheels, etc. I think it was confusing, and I didn't mean it to be. It was just my worries for the future by looking at the past if some follow the reasoning that Wally let in non-ASs on his caravans. RVs today aren't like the ones that joined Wally's caravans in the past.

Thanks so much for the clarification. It is much appreciated!
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Old 10-31-2010, 05:12 PM   #35
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As our club has become smaller, and on the average, older over the last 30 years (I have been a member for 16 yrs.), the number of people that are young enough to attend international Rallies and take the long national caravans has shrunk. Therefore, the club has not had enough people sign up for the Internationals and longer caravans and therefore had to cancel some. Last year they canceled 4 out of the 18 caravans they proposed at the beginning of the year. The club, on the average, is ageing- out. In our unit, at 72 I am regarded as a young person. I just bought another trailer it is a 34 footer and I intend to put a bunch of miles on it. It is nice to hear that at least your unit has attracted some younger members. I hope your unit has some fun events. The camping season is so short for you that far north.
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Old 10-31-2010, 06:00 PM   #36
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We have a group in Georgia that has a few Rallys and sometimes other events each year, and we get literally people of all ages, including many under 50, & some under 40 with kids also. The trick for us that makes it is the lack of many stringent rules and the flexibility to simply have a good time while camping with others.
Our group has grown steadily over the years with minimal promotion.
It was started as a reaction to the local WBCCI unit which held no attraction for me at the time, after we attended a Rally where we came with lots of enthusiasm and left with a bucket of disappointment.
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Old 11-01-2010, 01:12 PM   #37
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now that pontiac's are no long being made,

can i join the local firebird club

with my new camaro?


just asking - same rationale
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Old 11-01-2010, 01:13 PM   #38
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Same rationale as an "Airstream" motorhome in an Airstream Club? Or is it the Airstream riveted aluminum only club. Just curious.
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Old 11-01-2010, 01:18 PM   #39
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Quote:
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Same rationale as an "Airstream" motorhome in an Airstream Club? Or is it the Airstream riveted aluminum only club. Just curious.
The WBCCI is open to all Airstream owners...
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Old 11-01-2010, 01:20 PM   #40
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I still meet AS owners who don't know AS used to make MH. So this idea of Thor making a new AS MH would seem strange to them. zz
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Old 11-02-2010, 09:22 PM   #41
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I hope you will visit us again sometime, Alan. There are several of us who love your rallies and would welcome you to the Top of Ga. Change, with respect for our traditions, is in progress. That doesn't mean SOB Motorhomes.

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Old 11-05-2010, 03:42 PM   #42
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Don't want to be controversial here () but right before Airstream stopped producing mohos I was in Jackson Center having some work done. There was a nice couple with one of the new motor homes (square box fiberglass style) having warranty work done... for the third or fourth time! One of their big issues was that the windshield had cracked AGAIN, and that the had more leaks AGAIN. As it turned out, the television mounted above the drivers window was too heavy for the frame and it's vibration was cracking the windshield and creating leaks in the roof and around adjacent seams, etc. The TV was a CRT - this was before flat screens became reasonably priced. There were also unrelated leak problems.

They'd been there 4 or 5 days when I arrived, and were thoroughly disgusted with the build quality of the moho. They'd bought expecting a Prevost like experience and had one issue after another. By that time they felt that if Airstream couldn't fix the problems for good and all, Airstream should send a driver to pick up the moho, drive it to the factory, and return it and absorb all of those costs too.

The repairs were going to take over 2 weeks. The angry owners got boxes, packed all of their stuff and shipped it home, and told me they were putting it up for sale immediately. They'd decided to buy a Prevost. I dare say it would be grossly unfair to judge the quality of the whole line of mohos by that one story... but have you ever looked on ebay or our classifieds to see what the later model mohos sell for? Depreciation isn't even the word for it.

Airstream has enough quality issues with their trailers - deciding to stop making mohos at least gave them the CHANCE to concentrate on refining the design problems with their trailers. (That they haven't followed through as much as they should have... is a separate issue.)

I saw the prototype model for a new moho - and frankly if "Airstream" ever decides to build one I HOPE they outsource it to a company that specializes in manufacturing mohos, and does it right.

Maybe they should get the local Honda generator plant to teach Q.C. on their trailer production line!

(Shameless self promotion combined with analysis of what "QC" costs) I am one of two owners of a company called Answer Center - we are a small company but we've won national recognition for quality for the last six years running. I've got to tell you it isn't cheap, and it isn't easy to achieve. It's also a never ending pain in the tookus effort. The old saying:

People don't do what you expect, they do what you INSPECT!

certainly applies. Only the smallest minority of people will do excellent work if they aren't supervised into it, and rewarded for it. We also have to FIRE real lugheads from time to time to "convince and remind" the rest of the workforce just how serious we are about quality.

My pragmatic side says that for the answering service industry - our customers use us every single day and every call we handle correctly is likely to result in a sale for the customer - so being a QC freak works!

The problem with Airstreams is that they ARE yard art for a lot of folks. I know of three within a 20 mile radius that haven't moved in years. If they're going to rot in the yard, why make them better?

Of course there is one good set of proofs Airstream should consider - Casita. Casitas depreciate $500 per year. So? So why bother looking for a "gently used" one? My sister wants one, and there is a waiting list MONTHS LONG to get one - in a recession - with NO dealer network and little advertising. Ever seen one at an RV show? You have to drive to the "hatchery" and pick it up. If you want it delivered, you find a transport company or a driver and you pay for that. Build it BETTER and they will come!

Would I wait months for an Airstream with guaranteed sealed seams, filoform solved, a Nyloboard floor and a sturdy frame that wouldn't pop rivets if you hit a pothole? Why yes I would.

Will I ever buy a third new Airstream? Only one of two ways:
  1. they build them better
  2. or I win a lottery and the money is totally not an object...
Even then I'd spend scads to have the factory custom build one with a heavy duty frame, nyloboard floor... etc. Think the factory won't do it? MONEY TALKS especially in a recession. If they wouldn't do it, P & S trailer would probably take say $150K to buy a shell and do it "my way".

OK, back to the real world. Adios and happy trails.

Paula
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