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byamcaravanner · 10-28-2010, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by munimula

What...causes you to think this is somehow a subversive move by the IBT or Airstream?

Dave,

Nothing "subversive" here... they are doing it right out in front for everyone to see.

LI Pets · 10-28-2010, 04:59 AM

The argument I hear the most is their MH are aging and the repairs are very high where they may spend thousands on the road if they breakdown.

I don't buy that argument totally, preventive maintenance can resolve that most of the time.

The DP motor can go at least 500,000 miles before a rebuild which may cost 10K?

Less then a new one. They can join the VAC with their old MH

Since I have the same risk as my '07 GMC breaking down while towing as a MH does I don't buy that argument.

One argument you'll likely hear is this one.( don't shoot the messenger)

If AirStream goes into production fine they have the new MH.

If not allow them to have a sob MH if they have been members continuously for at least 10 years

Why can't they buy a good used unit?

.

dwightdi · 10-28-2010, 06:02 AM

Here is a link to a great hardy used 2005 40 foot long Airstream Motor home offered for only $100,000 and has only 14,000 miles on it. There are more of them out there like this. It is a better buy than a SOB for over $200,000. Do not be fooled by the arguement that they need to by a SOB motor home. They do not need to, They want to. http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/rvs/2017925671.html

Frank's Trailer Works · 10-28-2010, 06:03 AM

The motor home would need to be a 1984 or earlier to be in the Vintage Club. Your 07 GMC is not a very good example of the vintage fit. Maybe by 2032 it will be though....

xrvr · 10-28-2010, 06:30 AM

Thor can do anything it wants. If they make an AS MH then it can be used as membership in the club. We members can do nothing . If titled as AS these would be no different than a BVAN or any other earlier AS MH. Methinks you are trying to stir thingsup. zz

HowieE · 10-28-2010, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azflycaster

The section you quoted pertains to disciplinary action against a member. Co-ownership is defined in the Blue Book on Page 7 - Article IV - Section 2 which was last revised on 1/17/97.

That is interesting. Are you saying WBCCI has more than one definition of membership? That sound like something Elliot Spitzer or Charley Scheen would be interested in. One definition of fidelity for home and another for whoring around.

You may be right. "The suspension or expulsion of any member as provided in this article shall be deemed to include the spouse or significant other". In other sections of the BB they may have another definition of membership that meets their needs at that point. I may have made the mistake that a definition was just that a definition.

You may remember my most resent interest relating to the WBCCI was in regards to suspension of a member so that was the definition I was focused on.

Foiled Again · 10-28-2010, 12:19 PM

over and OUT.

cooperhawk · 10-29-2010, 06:57 AM

Lord have mercy!!! Are you folks still chewing on that old bone?????

wheel interested · 10-29-2010, 07:20 PM

Oh oh if it is WBCCI repetitious the thread will be closed, unless of course it isn't closed, in which case you fly lower than the radar or you have touched upon popularity.

bolerama · 10-30-2010, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rideair

As everyone knows the WBCCI IBT/EC7 has asked once again about the old MOHO issue and what needs to be done to fix it. With "SaveWally" off-line, DW on hold, the WBCCI forums shutdown and some of the key players that helped keep the WBCCI from becoming a Airstream and THOR MOHO club either kicked out of the club or off on different projects, does anyone plan to fight the IBT/EC7 on this subject or just let them have their way and maybe bring in a MOHO which may/may not be from Airstream?

Or, does anyone even care at this point?

We are pretty new members (WBCCI-1 year, AirForums 2 years), so we don't know the whole history. However at our September WBCCI rally, there was a meeting about the 20/20 Committee, and there was mention that the club is considering opening up caravans to ALL SOB MOHOs...not just Thor-made MOHOs. The Committee wanted input. We both remember it that way; however, the whole meeting quickly became quite bizarre, so perhaps we both heard it incorrectly.

Since we aren't involved in caravans, we're not sure if we care. The old caravans with Wally included many makes of trailers, so maybe this is ok. However, all trailers looked cool back then. I think it would look lame if all white-box trailers could join the caravans. You'd have a hard time spotting the A/Ss between the big fifth-wheels.

dwightdi · 10-30-2010, 02:43 PM

I know of no initiative from the 2020 or the IBT to become a direct competitor to Good Sam with all makes allowed. Norm's speech told us that the new committee was to make Constitutional and Bylaws changes in wording but not remove any traditions or ethics committee. This spring the 2020 Committee requested we hold local meetings to address concerns of the members and make positive suggestions on how we might improve the club. Many locals held meetings and about half reported at the July Rally. Others promised to hold meetings after the caravan season and report at the next IBT meeting which will be in January. Who on the 2020 committee is said to have suggested we welcome all motorhomes and trailers?

Nuvite-F · 10-30-2010, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bolerama

We are pretty new members (WBCCI-1 year, AirForums 2 years), so we don't know the whole history. However at our September WBCCI rally, there was a meeting about the 20/20 Committee, and there was mention that the club is considering opening up caravans to ALL SOB MOHOs...not just Thor-made MOHOs. The Committee wanted input. We both remember it that way; however, the whole meeting quickly became quite bizarre, so perhaps we both heard it incorrectly.

Hi,

Since you indicated you are new to this issue I thought I might give you a brief history.

The first bit of background you need to know is that WBCCI membership has been steadily declining for the past 30 years, from a peak of about 28,000 members around 1980 to a little over 6,000 as of last June. This fact is the driving force between many of the club's controversies.

In 2003 the club took a survey of members on a number of issues related to the future of the club. One of the survey questions (in the form of a statement to be agreed or disagreed with) was,

"The WBCCI membership base should be broadened to include any RV brand made by Thor Industries, parent company of Airstream."

The responses were,

Strongly agree - 8.5%
Agree - 12.1%
Disagree - 19.3%
Strongly Disagree - 57.2%
No Opinion 2.1%

Or in round figures, 20% thought letting other Thor brand RVs into the club was a good idea, and 80% thought it was not, nearly 60% strongly disagreeing with the idea.

So opening up the club to non-Airstream brands would not appear to be a very popular idea.

The matter acquired some urgency a few years later when Airstream stopped manufacturing large Class A motor homes, leaving a considerable number of international officers currently traveling in Airstream Motor Homes without a source of replacement, if they wanted to stay in the club.

So in 2007 the international leadership proposed (and went to considerable lengths to promote) a constitutional amendment to open membership to other brands of motor homes manufactured by Thor Industries.

A constitutional amendment requires a vote of the membership, as expressed in the Delegates Meeting at the International Rally. To pass, the amendment must receive 2/3 of the vote of the membership (or units, in the case of units without proportional voting). Instead the amendment failed with about 2/3 of the membership voting against it. (Consistent with the earlier poll.)

Based on the foregoing I think you can see why this remains a contentious issue.

Now in 2010 Airstream, Inc. has offered to end the impasse by once again manufacturing Airstream-branded motor homes if enough customers (i.e. WBCCI members) would express a serious interest. I think that would be wonderful, solving the problem without requiring any change to WBCCI's constitution or single-brand identity.

As far as opening club activities--caravans--to non-Airstream RVs (presumably occupied by non-WBCCI members?), your post is the first I've heard of anything like that and I doubt it would sit well with the membership. Although we might note in passing that such a situation already exists in the form of the buddy rally permitted under WBCCI rules, whereby units can invite non-Airstream RV owning friends to a unit rally. However as I remember, units are limited to just one buddy rally per year.
.

dwightdi · 10-31-2010, 04:10 AM

The majority of respondents to the 2003 survey were officers and former officers in the club. Even given that bias, they did not favor bringing other brands of motorhomes into the club. Today, there are 42 International and IBT officers (and former officers) who own class A motorhomes. Only very few (my guess, less than 20)of our 6,400 members are in need of a new motorhome. If those people will put their bucks where their mouths are, then maybe that will be enough to convince Airstream to make some for them. Larry Huttle did not quantify, when he made the announcement at the Swiss festival rally, just how many motorhomes would need to be committed to to convince him to make the run. Norm Beu set up a committee and authorized it to investigate whether there is enough real dollar interest. They are to report to the IBT meeting in January.

Bolerama, your posting indicates the suggested proposal would include 5th wheels and other Trailers as well? I can not see that being accepted by the majority of the current members who all own Airstreams or Argosies. I can imagine that the rally you attended did become unreal when such a proposal was presented to a large group of ardent Airstream owners.

bolerama · 10-31-2010, 09:47 AM

Thanks so much Nuvite and dwightdi. That really helps us understand what was happening at the first part of the meeting when the survey question was discussed and posed to the membership. However the discussion revolved around low numbers for caravans (and some having to be cancelled.) All the new members at the meeting just looked at each other and shrugged. We weren't sure what they were talking about, and none of us will be able to attend a caravan for many more years. While many units have suffered declining membership, our unit has increased steadily in the last few years, with a large number of new members in their 30s, 40s, and 50s.

dwightdi, sorry about my comment about including 5th-wheels, etc. I think it was confusing, and I didn't mean it to be. It was just my worries for the future by looking at the past if some follow the reasoning that Wally let in non-ASs on his caravans. RVs today aren't like the ones that joined Wally's caravans in the past.

Thanks so much for the clarification. It is much appreciated!

dwightdi · 10-31-2010, 04:12 PM

As our club has become smaller, and on the average, older over the last 30 years (I have been a member for 16 yrs.), the number of people that are young enough to attend international Rallies and take the long national caravans has shrunk. Therefore, the club has not had enough people sign up for the Internationals and longer caravans and therefore had to cancel some. Last year they canceled 4 out of the 18 caravans they proposed at the beginning of the year. The club, on the average, is ageing- out. In our unit, at 72 I am regarded as a young person. I just bought another trailer it is a 34 footer and I intend to put a bunch of miles on it. It is nice to hear that at least your unit has attracted some younger members. I hope your unit has some fun events. The camping season is so short for you that far north.

ALANSD · 10-31-2010, 05:00 PM

We have a group in Georgia that has a few Rallys and sometimes other events each year, and we get literally people of all ages, including many under 50, & some under 40 with kids also. The trick for us that makes it is the lack of many stringent rules and the flexibility to simply have a good time while camping with others.
Our group has grown steadily over the years with minimal promotion.
It was started as a reaction to the local WBCCI unit which held no attraction for me at the time, after we attended a Rally where we came with lots of enthusiasm and left with a bucket of disappointment.