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Old 02-10-2011, 06:02 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by jwgreen View Post
Thor Motor Coach division announced today, Feb. 10, 2011, that a new quality control program named Gold Star Inspection will be implemented immediately. Additional information is available at the following link: Quality Inspection | Thor Motor Coach
Thor, as we all know by now, is the parent corporation of Airstream, Inc. If the contributors on this thread have concerns about whether a Thor Motor Coach built unit is a quality product, this new program will reinforce the corporate committment to building and selling a quality product. Therein lies another rub...the name on the outside of the product since it will not be Airstream, and, under the current WBCCI constitutional language, ineligible for WBCCI membership. It does indicate, however, that TMC products are a quality product commensurate with Airstream quality but only lacking the Airstream name on the outside. As an RV owner, I value quality and longevity as priority items for RV ownership. Membership in a brand specific RV owners club is an asset and up to the club members to add value to the ownership experience. Let's look for ways to keep our members and not beat them up over trivial issues.
If they want to own a SOB motorhome that is fine. Just let them join the FMCA and not be in the WBCCI. The WBCCI is not an organization of SOB RV's. Let SOB's in and the WBCCI will turn out like Travelers Rest Resort. TR used to be an Airstream only park. Today there are less than 40% Airstreams in the park with more park models being added every year.


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Old 02-10-2011, 06:16 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by lewster View Post
Thor should be ashamed of putting out such a piece of crap and 'proudly putting their name on it', especially when compared to what the rest of the industry is making!
So in your opinion what brands are the best value?

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Old 02-10-2011, 07:01 PM   #241
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In an effort to bring peace to everyone in the world of RV'ing and to make it to where no one feels left out, we should open the WBCCI to all MOHO, 5th-Wheels, Trailers and Pop-Up's. While we're at it, let's add in tent camping too (I know lots of tent campers that go camping with a white shirts, ties and flags). The new MOHO people will fit right in with the IBT/EC7 and can tell us we are all wrong about how the club should be ran. I know all those 5th-wheelers will just be dying to join and help the IBT increase the size of the club. I've heard the SOB Trailer crowd loves to have a goodtime so we can expect some great rallies from them. As for the Pop-Up gang, could be a bunch of trouble makers but we must take that chance, we may have to put a special section in that New Constitution to keep them in check.

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Old 02-10-2011, 08:16 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
So in your opinion what brands are the best value?
'Value' is a relative term that has different meanings and interpretations for different folks. While one parson's RV value might reside in a 3-5 year old Airstream trailer purchased for approximately 50% of the original retail sticker, another's value may be that new, custom ordered and designed Newell Coach with the $1,450,000 price tag (and Newells are IMHO, the finest and best built RV available today). Value can also be found in a host of other manufacturer's RVs including late 90's to early 00 Monaco products, Newmar trailers and 5th wheels, Foretravel motor homes, early 90's Beaver motor homes, Spartan trailers from the late 40's to early 50's and a few other gems that are out there.

While prices run the gamut from a few thousand to the millions, many of the larger motor home builders have far finer construction techniques that Thor uses. The particular coach that I was servicing today had flexible interior walls where they should have been firmly backed, cracked tile flooring from poor underlayment, poor wiring technique obviously done in a rush to satisfy production schedules, components located with no regard for future servicing and fit and finish that clearly showed a dedicated drive for profit above all else.

To the casual observer and especially a prospective buyer, these things are not readily apparent during the buying process as they are blinded with the excitement and adrenaline of a new RV purchase.

For me, value lies in a vehicle (or trailer) that is well constructed and shows the pride of construction and craftsmanship that is not easily found in today's RV marketplace. One that will maintain it's integrity over time with proper care and maintenance. Spending more money sometimes does not get you more value for what is spent.
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:19 AM   #243
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The Great Divide

Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
so.... your saying, we should let the Thor products in, even if they DON'T carry the Airstream name cause they will still be a quality product? This is an Airstream club, not a Thor club. I don't view letting SOB motor homes in as a trivial issue, I see it as divisive. It actually means an immediate end to the club, and the formation of an entirely new club.
Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
You can bet the day they let in any other product other than an airstream, the membership in the WBCCI will drop by about 75% - that is the end of the club.
Hey Tim and all,
As a previous Officer of the VAC, Iím sorry if I offended anyone with my recent post with regards to my personal experiences with the IBT. The fact remains that not all who have ventured down the road to the WB Board of directors, deserve such sharp criticism. My beef was with a few zealots in our midst. Among them are those who feel that their high and mighty presence deserves some sort of special treatment! The ultimate sign of that is Gold row status with a top of the line Motor home regardless of brand. (I and many others see your classic MH as Vintage not a slab-sided rolling house)

The problem, as I see it, is shared by most members of the VAC. It basically boils down to purpose. What is it that we are seeking, stylish living or recreational pursuit? As past membership chair of the intra club I got to talk with many of our members. They hold a deep sense of historical perspective and tradition about the club and in their pursuit of recreation they sought to bring back those experiences which made the club great to begin with. It starts with that vision of the classic Airstream, family values and the experiences they wish to share with their children. It is what Airstreaming is all about for them. It is these families which the VAC tried to attract and create the environment for both affluent and modest income Airstream owners to co-exist.

Many people want to peg some sort of generational divide as the culprit and in some cases that may be true! But it really boils down to, as most things do, money. The kind of club which those newer motor home enthusiasts want to belong to is the affluent club, the ones where all their friends have the same means and the same style accommodations. The kind of club VACerís look to is, classic, quirky, multi generational, and for the most part accepting of lifestyle choices. We also had the greatest voices of dissent regarding the Leaderships attempts to silence the many voices of change which they did not want to hear. The growing membership, were those who were either VAC members or people with the VAC mindset. They, the leadership, were going to do everything in their power to stop, what they viewed as, an attempt to change the club to some sort of Camping Club. They are not Campers they are RVers living on the road. There is vast distinction between the two.

I have long thought that the club was already divided along these lines and that the real solution would be to divide the assets and create two divisions of WBCCI one for travelers and one for campers and let the public decide which one is for them. Since that will never happen because they have a strangle hold on the finances, the only choice is to start anew.

That brings us to where we are today. What form does that take in 21st century with the internet and portable communications? Certainly the Forums is one way, as is the networked TAC, and the NortheastAO, NOVA, and a myriad of other networks groups across the country whose only connection is Aluminum. These all provide for a means to stay in touch, announce rallies and meet people in a recreational environment.

This is great but what is missing and most essential to the longevity of those connections, is personal contact and the camaraderie of belonging to and supporting a group a friends who share a passion for the experience of being an Airstream Owner. That is the piece that is lost in the network environment. Itís also the piece that will generate the most value for the time spent. As the club continues to disintegrate, there will be more defections. At some point it may be advantageous for the local networkers to create a larger entity which can garner the benefits of economies of scale that the WBCCI once had. For now at least, I am of the opinion that we should abandon ship and let her sink. The bilge is full, the boilers are flaming out, the seamen are abandoning ship, and captains are on the bridge yelling full steam ahead.

Thanks again for letting me get this off my chest. By the way, you will need to solicit for a new VAC Region 1 Rep as I am no longer a member of WBCCI. If I can still get a subscription to the VA, Iíd like that!
WAM & Lin
Airsteaming since 1999
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:54 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by lewster View Post
- - - - - %< - -- --
The particular coach that I was servicing today had flexible interior walls where they should have been firmly backed, cracked tile flooring from poor underlayment, poor wiring technique obviously done in a rush to satisfy production schedules, components located with no regard for future servicing and fit and finish that clearly showed a dedicated drive for profit above all else.
- - -- -%< - - - -
And that is the "quality" you get when you pay on a piece work basis. It sort of goes back to the old impossible triad: Good, Fast, Cheap, Pick any two!
Howard and Carolyn

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Old 02-11-2011, 12:40 PM   #245
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Don't Take That Path!

Originally Posted by Bluebird View Post
Let SOB's in and the WBCCI will turn out like Travelers Rest Resort. TR used to be an Airstream only park. Today... ...more park models being added every year.
That hits near home. I grew up in Pasco County, Florida and my parents had a hand in establishing Travelers Rest. I myself marvelled at all the Airstreams when that park was built.

My wife and I are shareholders in TR. Every year we vote against the hair-brained ideas that continue to diminish the original intentions of Jack Busch and people who created TR.

It's such a shame to drive through the park now - it looks as much like a mobile home park (nothing intrinsically wrong with mobile homes) and has lost its Airstream look and feel. Drive through now and you might think it's a coincidence there are so many Airstreams. I believe it should be an Airstream only park.

It would certainly be discouraging to see WBCCI follow along the same path as TR.

Lucius and Danielle
1992 29' Excella Classic
1996 GMC Suburban C2500 7.4L
2005 Chevrolet Suburban K2500 8.1L
Got a cooped-up feeling, gotta get out of town, got those Airstream campin' blues...
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Old 02-13-2011, 08:41 AM   #246
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We are WBCCI members and own a 1974 argosy moho. We do not think Airstream should put their name on an SOB. However we would love to see airstream make a class A moho again. Even if it were a chassis by another mfr. or possibly shell and chassis but interior and tricked out by Jackson Center (Airstream). Consider the Navistar International chassis/ Monaco Vesta.
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Old 02-13-2011, 08:58 AM   #247
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Where do we go from here?

Let me summarize: There seems to be two factions at work here with very different views and each side making claims that it has the support of MOST of the members, or, perhaps, owners who are not members of WBCCI. One side consists of the traditional purists who will continually resist change as it is their objective to maintain their perception of what the club was or used to be and that they think it was, even now, fifty years later. The other side is comprised of members who want to see change occur and believe that change is the only way to keep the club from becoming stale and disconnected from the realities of the 21st century such as high fuel costs, puny tow vehicles, an RV marketplace with many more brands and options from the 50's, etc., etc. Neither side is willing to concede anything to the other and continue to draw lines in the sand and challenge the other, all in the name of keeping the club alive, vital, and able to attract and keep members. So, let's keep beating each other up while we close our minds to any ideas other than those we consider our own individual "truth."
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Old 02-13-2011, 10:10 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by 65GT View Post
Where else could the membership vote down a measure by 2:1, following that up with brand new constitutional vision and mission statements, that bolster the club's Airstream Owner membership requirements, near unanimously approved , and still have special interest minority view mis-managers voting to form their THIRD motorhome committee since 2007. .............

It's not a fair fight and until it is (and it never has been) I think you'll see the public beatings continue...

Pick among any of the third world countries with sham democracies.

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Old 02-13-2011, 12:05 PM   #249
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What part of NO don't you understand? The membership has spoken on the SOB motor home issue and their answer was NO.....keep the WBCCI as an Airstream only club....AS IT SHOULD BE! Those at the top keep trying to run this club into the ground with their myopic view of what the club should be. ASK THE MEMBERS..........they will tell you overwhelmingly!

It's not backward thinking or lack of a progressive attitude. Further more, Airstream is doing quite well, thank you making TRAILERS and their B-van conversions. The key here is MAKING, NOT RE-BADGING!

Many large OEM motor home manufacturers take a pre-made chassis (Freightliner or Spartan) and then build their versions of product on them. Very few manufacturers actually build from the ground up. those would be Airstream trailers, Newell, Foretravel, Monaco, Country Coach and Tiffin motor homes).

The point is that there are plenty of clubs that welcome ALL motor homes like the FMCA, but you will never get a Tiffin anywhere near the Country Coach club and vise versa! They are single brand entities and all of their members also belong to the multi-brand outfits.

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Old 02-13-2011, 12:46 PM   #250
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You said it all. Thanks. Sal.
Sal & Nora
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Old 02-13-2011, 12:57 PM   #251
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Misprint or not?

We just arrived at the Florida State Rally.

Normally there is a "State of the WBCCI" Forum conducted by the IP.

This year it is scheduled for Fri. from 1 to 2 PM

It is appropriately listed as " FATE OF THE WBCCI"
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61 tradewind, plus a few others
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Old 02-14-2011, 07:21 AM   #252
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Leo, don't jump to conclusions!

Originally Posted by 65GT View Post
Originally Posted by 65GT View Post

Missing? What I think you're missing my friend is turmoil and very little else. The 'problem' with NETWORKING is that there are no boards, committees, or opportunities for anyone to hijack an event by bringing in SOBs! The rally organizers and hosts determine what will and what will not be and in the world of Airstream ownership at least there you could find some consistency amongst many "Airstream Only" rally hosts.

The problem with attaining that feeling that you think you miss of "belonging to and supporting" is that true NETWORKING is new to many. The only thing required in NETWORKING are rally organizers, hosts and a calendar. You can take all of your Prez, VP, Treasurer, Secretary(s), Membership, Newsletter, Webmaster, Legislative, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah positions and simply TOSS them to the wind. Organized clubs simply can't exist without LEGIONS of annual volunteers doing ANT work. Much of the decline of organized camping (if you can call it camping) is that most Airstream owners want NOTHING to do with any of it. This clearly explains why MOST Airstream owners don't belong to a club, any club. Belonging comes with the inherent fear of being cajoled into a multi-year run doing something you have no desire to do. In NETWORKING if each and every one of these title holders merely hosted an annual rally instead, you'd have (120 units X 6 title holders per) 720 events per year without an officer anywhere in sight. Imagine all that DO NOTHING time that could be saved by TRUE Airstreaming enthusiasts?

While I appreciate your reinforcement and clarification of the historical perspective to which I was writing about I think, rather I know, you misinterpreted my perspective on networking and group dynamics. The networking, in my opinion, is the tools in the process of making connections. Iím not advocating for a WBCCI styled club, but rather lamenting the loss of those things which makes camping within groups so rewarding. Iím an advocate of local sponsoring and organized groups of friends who make serving their friends by becoming organizers, their top priority. You do that with Northeast AO. What I was promoting was being more than just a screen name to a large group. Personal interaction while being messy, awkward, and for some, anxiety ridden is also complimented by fun, personal rewards, and excitement and is the best way to make lasting connections. It is the best thing about the WBCCI if those who help organize donít take themselves too seriously and remember the reasons that they are there in the first place.
While the concept of everyone taking responsibility and sharing the load is the ideal, the reality is that there are those who would just rather go along for the ride, at least until they are comfortable. Actually it is the majority who prefer to participate in that way and that is why the WBCCI Leadership could get away with what they have been doing. What I found, is that given an environment where each is allowed to participate up to their comfort level, people end up surprising you. The idea of forcing the newbie to take charge because youíre tired of being in charge is just preposterous. While I heard of that happening in other units it never happened in mine. The attitude was always one of looking for volunteers. One aspect of what you mentioned, having to do with very large gatherings like the International is that they are dead. They are dead because the days of making that pilgrimage are gone. The reason for that is primarily because there are alternatives and that people donít want to spend a week in traffic, listen to people bitchen, get treated badly at the bull pen, get parked next to some self absorbed individual, listen to outdated music, be yelled at for flying the wrong style or wrong colored flag, be told that they canít take their awning out because they are parked on asphalt in 100 degree plus heat and lastly for all that fun they get to pay $700. The large convention is done.
Maybe itís my age showing, but I already miss belonging to something larger than just me and Lin, the internet and chat rooms while useful, are just not the same as sharing my latest Airstream modification, acquisition, or my favorite beverage with friends around a campfire!

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Airsteaming since 1999
1966 " Trade Wind"

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