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Old 05-29-2011, 09:49 PM   #301
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Bill,

"Normally" all proposed amendments must be into HQ, CBL etc.. back in the March time frame and out to the Units by April 1. Remember, this was "ONLY" another "Special Committe" report. Under the normal guidelines it should not come up for a vote. But as Nuvite-F said, all bets are off at the delegates meeting.
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Old 05-29-2011, 10:01 PM   #302
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If I understand you, it is possible to make the motor home motion part of the revised constitution and passed this June.

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Bill,

"Normally" all proposed amendments must be into HQ, CBL etc.. back in the March time frame and out to the Units by April 1. Remember, this was "ONLY" another "Special Committe" report. Under the normal guidelines it should not come up for a vote. But as Nuvite-F said, all bets are off at the delegates meeting.
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Old 05-29-2011, 10:10 PM   #303
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You know it man!

All it will take is during the voting of that area of the New Constitution for a Delegate to get up and say, "I'd like to put forth a motion to amend it to read "BLA,BLA,BLA" then a second Delegate rise up and say "I second that motion" and the voting is on!
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Old 05-29-2011, 10:30 PM   #304
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And they only need a simple majority to pass the amendment.

Of course, at the end of the day they still need to get a 2/3 majority of the delegates to adopt the revised constitution containing that poison pill.
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Old 05-30-2011, 08:22 AM   #305
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...... You can put up with feckless leadership when you can't be bothered to pay any attention to them ... The only real change that has gone on at the top is that the truly feckless have been bringing in both the dishonest and the devious to help fill out their ranks...
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I've seen you label the IBT as "feckless" before, but have often wondered how you mean it. Here's the entry (www.thesaurus.com) for the term:

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Main Entry: feckless
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: without purpose
Synonyms: aimless, carefree, careless, feeble, fustian, futile, good-for-nothing, hopeless, incautious, incompetent, ineffective, ineffectual, irresponsible, meaningless, reckless, shiftless, uncareful, useless, weak, wild, worthless
Notes: feckless means ineffective or having no real worth or purpose
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Old 05-30-2011, 09:36 AM   #306
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Usually it's definition tends more toward the end of being ineffective, without purpose or value, kind of like Pres. Grover Cleveland. In fact, I'd say that they're being quite effective in achieving their goals, or at least appear to be, assuming that the goals ascribed to them here are, in fact, what they want to achieve. Anything but feckless.


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Old 05-30-2011, 09:38 AM   #307
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I wonder what the results of a THOR Class A motor home effort might be without a delegate system? Members left to direct voting, or no voting at all. Ha! Way too funny isn't it?

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If the previous vote in 2007 was 60% against the SOB motorhome amendment, then without delegates there will likely be enough of a drop due to non manditory delegate attendence and the lack of unit numbers represented along with a drop in voting members participating through direct member voting (i.e. concerned members) and enough of the "quality" members being in attendence and at greater proportion at the proposed International caucus to tip that margin and swing the results.
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Old 05-30-2011, 09:44 AM   #308
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Kind of hard to predict, Carol. I'd want to look back to see what the then-current status of the proposed constitution is, but that thread has been closed, at least for now, thanks to the "overexuberance" of some of our contributing Airforums members.

Lynn


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If the previous vote in 2007 was 60% against the SOB motorhome amendment, then without delegates there will likely be enough of a drop in attendence and direct voting members and enough of the "quality" members being in attendence at the proposed International caucus to tip that margin and swing the subsequent vote, don't you think?
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Old 05-30-2011, 10:08 AM   #309
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There has been no information provided for discussions with my Unit. On that basis, any non-Airstream change would get a NO vote. Until discussions at the unit.
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Old 05-30-2011, 10:27 AM   #310
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There has been no information provided for discussions with my Unit. On that basis, any non-Airstream change would get a NO vote. Until discussions at the unit.
Thanks!
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Old 05-30-2011, 10:29 AM   #311
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There is no "official" vote on this issue because at this point it is only a report of the special committee that was looking into the issue. The report will be presented at the IBT seminar in Du Quoin and members may comment on the report at that time.

I am disappointed that the committee chose to recommend the same proposal that was soundly defeated at the delegates meeting a few years ago. There were several ideas that might have been acceptable by more members, but to open the club up to non Airstream products is clearly a proposal that would never be approved by the delegates.
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Old 05-30-2011, 10:49 AM   #312
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Wasn't the Special Bylaws and Constitution Revision Committee charged only with making a report back to the International President on consolidation and housekeeping measures and an extention granted from their Mid-Winter incompleted due date???

I am wondering if Don Shaefer's claim and non-recommendation (thusly documented and reserved for future implimentation and thusly a fail safe measure for desired results of the EC7's design) that the Special Committee's scope is unconstitutional that action is actually being delayed on a ruling made by the IP and/or parlimentarian to be dismissed according to the outcome of the delegates meeting and whether the EC7 is in favor or opposition to what is finally proposed.

Roberts Rules and Constitution aside there is quite a bit of latitude being exercised by leadership without general membership's agreement of propriety.
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Old 05-30-2011, 11:44 AM   #313
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So while I'm fundamentally against the idea of a principled change to the club, opening it up to non-Airstream owners, I can also see the problem that the recent change in factory policy has created for a few of our members. The least we can do is to help just those folks out with a temporary, ad-hoc measure.


Lynn
Correct me if I am mistaken but units have always been able to make "allowances" to help members retain their membership in the club and their local unit even when they no longer own an Airstream.

The problem being is that once you make the big time you can never go back it, or so it would seem. Many of the International Club, no longer return to their local units after serving but rather retain their Past International standing and continue to be disenfrancized from their former unit and cling to their friends at the International level.

Staying a member of WBCCI is not actually the problem we have in the club. Getting them to relinquish control or stay in Airstreams to qualify as WBCCI leaders IS the problem.

I commend your peace making spirit and emphathy Lynn but I have the impression we are being worked over and given a bogus bill of goods.
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Old 05-30-2011, 12:38 PM   #314
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My unit voted NO on both Motorhome proposals previously presented.
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Old 05-30-2011, 12:58 PM   #315
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Who would it effect?

If the WBCCI did allow THOR MOHO's into the club, who would it "really" effect anyway in the short term? I would think it would mainly effect some of the Unit's in Florida and TX which is where most of the current and past IBT/EC7 hang thier hat when their not traveling on the WBCCI checkbook.

In the past, there has been talk about the more "progressive" Units breaking away to form there own club. But maybe we have this thinking 180 degrees out of sync. Maybe, just maybe the Unit's pushing for the MOHO changed should leave the club and form a new one that fits their needs better.

My guess, we would need to give that group some "walking money" maybe in the tune of say; "1,000,000.00 DOLLARS"


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Old 05-30-2011, 03:12 PM   #316
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In the event of a divorce or anullment, WBCCI would likely get their lawyers to walk away with the lion's share of proceeds and the right to retain the 55 year old name and history, but only for restitution purposes and to shortly chuck it to the ground in favor of SOB motorhomes and a new club name, while the Airstream enthusiasts would be stripped and prohibited from using Airstream or Wally Byam trademarks or claiming affiliation. Go figure...it's all about winning and the money in the bank and control and not the least about the Airstream product or preservation of Wally's name and the Airstream club of the past generations.
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Old 05-30-2011, 03:16 PM   #317
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... to shortly chuck it to the ground in favor of SOB motorhomes and a new club name, while the Airstream enthusiasts would be stripped and prohibited from using Airstream [emphasis, LAE] or Wally Byam trademarks or claiming affilitation.
I suspect that Airstream Inc. might just have a thing or two to say. (Recall that Airforums once had a different name -- until Airstream Inc. stepped in.)


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Old 05-30-2011, 03:28 PM   #318
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Yeah I never can remember the new name of Airstream Dreams, luckily it still reconnects to the right web page and so does Airstream Forums. But my point being is why prevent others from enjoying the name and heritage as with Save Wally and the Wally Byam Birthday Bash just to cast it off for a new and different club name and open enrollment of all brands of RVs? Why not let the International Club move on and branch off by themselves to form their own new constitution and leave the WBCCI in tact for the majority of contented Airstream owners that enjoy the club as it was successful about the Airstream product? Isn't that a lot like opening up the Girl Scouts of America to boys?
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Old 05-30-2011, 06:11 PM   #319
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Effective? Effective at WHAT? Financial planning? Financial management? Marketing? Member retention? Member recruitment? Are there really any pluses in this column? Some core club value that they are effective at?
Well, how about being effective, even tireless, in trying to get SOBs accepted into the club. (That is what this thread is about.) Will they achieve that goal? I don't know, but I wouldn't call them feckless for their efforts.


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Old 05-30-2011, 06:59 PM   #320
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More like: determined, self serving and ruthless would be better descriptions for those activities.
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