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Old 02-04-2011, 12:52 PM   #211
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Wally Byam Caravan Club Ends Airstream Only Membership Requirements - Topix
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Old 02-05-2011, 04:00 PM   #212
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Have you checked out that link? It appears a Past International President posted on that forum and thinks Leo G is full of malarkey. That's more communication than we ever saw on WBCCI forums that's for sure!

Here are some interesting facts about this motorhome issue for those that may be new to following the IBT's path allowing other brands to be accepted by the membership.

The issue came to a proposed constitutional amendment in 2007 and was defeated handily by a 2 to 1 margin by the membership.

In 2009 the WBCCI's 20/20 Committee struck back at that failed attempt with two amendments, the incorporation of vision and mission statements that bolstered and assured that the club would remain an Airstream Owners club as it has been since its formation in 1955.

In 2010, the very next year, the Executive Committee for the club formed their 2nd Motorhome Exploratory Committee. This committee's task was to find someway to have THOR (Airsltream's parent company) manufacture some type of class A motorhome and falsely label it as an Airstream RV all to meet current WBCCI membership requirements. That attempt rightfully failed at the committee level as Airstream itself rebuffed the effort based on past member voting results.

Not to be deterred, openly and willingly ignoring the membership's prior actions, on January 28th 2011 club leadership passed a motion that will create a 3rd Motorhome Exploratory Committee. The intent behind this 3rd attempt is to try and force THOR's or Airstream's hand in this matter yet again.

I think doing away with delegates and Forrest's amendment is just another approach that the EC is trying to move closer to their continued goal of making a way to see this happen. One thing we certainly haven't seen much of is leadership spending meeting time and their energy initiating new business or even furthering member driven issues that are for the primary advantage of the general membership. But now they care and this will be better? Be careful, maybe we should look the gift horse in the mouth. This present's value should perhaps be examined before we express too much gratitude over our good fortune of a brand new constitution written by the Special (appointed) Revision Committee for the Executive Committee and accessed by the Standing Constitution Committee, coincidently or not, headed by the very same PIP that was IP during the unsuccessful vote and said that would not be the end. Background can prove to be very interesting for those with deeper curiosity.
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Old 02-05-2011, 04:05 PM   #213
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Have you checked out that link? It appears a Past International President posted on that forum and thinks Leo G is full of malarkey. That's more communication than we ever saw on WBCCI forums that's for sure!
Of course, we have no idea whether any of the posters are really the persons whose names they used.
.
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Old 02-05-2011, 04:34 PM   #214
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Of course, we have no idea whether any of the posters are really the persons whose names they used.
.
Surely you are correct. Who knows who Shirley in LI is. And D.S. could have plenty of impersonators. Wait... you think?

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Old 02-05-2011, 06:42 PM   #215
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Shirley = Leo
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Old 02-05-2011, 06:48 PM   #216
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I'm teasing Shirley is the city.
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Old 02-06-2011, 06:06 AM   #217
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yes that's where he lives
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Old 02-06-2011, 03:48 PM   #218
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If you look at it just right

Then, the 2007 Perry International where allowing any other brand was rejected (rough numbers were) 39% or 2435 votes for and 60% or 3677 votes against and (128 abstentions-1%). For a total of 6240 votes. Total membership 2007 “WBCCI Directory total--6549 Members”

Now, let’s look at the numbers in 2011 the total membership “2011 WBCCI Directory total--5496 Members”. One could say that if a vote was taken “today” the numbers should fall like this following the same 60/40 split. The (rough numbers) 3294 against, 2196 approve. Yes/No? I say “no” and the IBT/EC7 knows it. Why? Since 2007, we have lost 1053 members. Based on the reasons why many people have left the WBCCI, which side do you think those 1053 voted on, Against or Approve in 2007? I say “against”.

So, if the approve still had 2435, that means the against would be down to 3061 (for the total of 5496 votes) or a rough 55/45 split. Why does this matter? Depending on the rewrite of the WBCCI Constitution will you still need 2/3rd to change it or just 51%, 1M1V (normally 30-50% vote, mostly older folks, possibility approvers of the MOHO) one can see next year (after the current MOHO study is done) this could be presented at the Mid-Winter Meeting and come back up for a vote and pass in 2012. That with more and more people getting PO’d at the WBCCI IBT/EC7 and leaving the Club (members against the MOHO issue) if brought up to the membership it could just pass.

I will bet dues to the WBCCI WDCU Unit this will come back up for a vote next year (International 2012). By that time, more members will have left the club (those against it and those who got the word out) and it just might pass. Plus, it will be said it has been five years since the last vote on the issue and we are in even a greater need for this to be done.


You wait and see!
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Old 02-06-2011, 04:19 PM   #219
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Paul, I can see how they might indeed use that logic. On the other hand, why start using logic now, one way or another it will be done by fiat. Thats my guess. Who gives a crap about what the mere members think?
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Old 02-06-2011, 05:14 PM   #220
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Paul, I can see how they might indeed use that logic. On the other hand, why start using logic now, one way or another it will be done by fiat. Thats my guess. Who gives a crap about what the mere members think?
After all, if the IBT decides what the Constitution means with no oversight, then it effectively means whatever they want it to mean. So, if they decide that no SOBs means SOBs are welcome, then that is that. End of story.

All that is going on right now is lipstick is being put on the pig. Continued pretending that the WBCCI is an organization run by the rule of law is farcical, cause it just ain't so. The IBT president has already demonstrated his commitment to honorable behavior and upholding the mere members right to govern the organization.

I bet if the club were to allow SOBs to long-time members with the provision that such members be excluded from office holding or committee service and would not have a vote (like MALs) they would not go for it.
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Old 02-06-2011, 05:55 PM   #221
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I said a long time ago, "Grandfather current WBCCI members, let them own another brand, what ever they want, with that, no voting rights or can hold any Unit, Region or International level positition". I suggested that to the IBT back in 2006/2007.

I got some real good emails from the IBT/EC7 when I sent them that email.

They were not willing to give up the power.
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Old 02-06-2011, 05:57 PM   #222
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What does Airstream really "manufacture?"

If I read the WBCCI constitution correctly, anyone who owns a recreational vehicle "MANUFACTURED" by Airstream, Inc. is eligible to be a WBCCI member. Of course, this language pre-dates the acquisition of Airstream by Thor, Inc., the current owner of the company. Thor made a decision to discontinue manufacturing Airstream branded class A motorized RV's in 2006. According to Dave Schumann's speech at the 2004 WBCCI International rally in Lansing, MI, the quality of Airstream brand class A motorized RV's was already under review when he stated that warranty claims were subject to root cause analysis, trying to drilll down to the cause of the claim. Was it due to a defective component from a supplier or was it due to a manufacturing defect in the Airstream factory in Jackson Center, OH? The answer came less than 2 years later when production ceased. Now, comes the Airstream class B Interstate and Avenue motorized units. In my opinion, a very valid case can be made that neither of these units are actually "MANUFACTURED" by Airstream, Inc. Airstream receives the Interstate as a Mercedes-Benz 3500 van with no interior, installs components manufactured by other suppliers, and an Interstate touring coach rolls out the other end of the factory. What did Airstream actually manufacture? You figure it out. This scenario is essentially the same for the Chevrolet chassis/van called the Avenue touring coach. I submit that Airstream is the conversion company for these products and not the manufacturer. I consider this a very literal interpretation of these products, ie., the "letter of the law" vs. "the spirit of the law." I, for one, am far less concerned about what equipment a member has when they are willing to be contributors to the WBCCI spirit of fun, fellowship, and adventure. There are those on this forum who want to raise issues of constitutional compliance as a never ending topic for discussion with little tolerance for dissenters and no agenda to try and move toward a consensus meaning "the outcome may not be all that I want, however, I can live with the compromise." How about it, can we get to a consensus in the near term or just find more ways to say no and watch the club go the same way as several RV brands that no longer exist?
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Old 02-06-2011, 06:11 PM   #223
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The B vans are converted at the Airstream factory in Jackson Center and sold through Airstream dealers with an Airstream warentee. I think most people would consider them Airstreams and the club has accepted them for membership for over 15 years. If a Thor motorhome simply had a badge stuck on it saying it was a WBCCI Edition and sold through the usual Thor Dealerships, I think most people would not see them as being an "Airstream". I am not sure what Don Shafer wants to buy but I think he wants more slides. I think he should buy it and move on with his life outside of WBCCI. He will still have lots of Airstream Motorhome friends who proudly display their FMCA plaques. They can camp together at the FMCA Rallies.
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Old 02-06-2011, 06:59 PM   #224
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this is amazing

i have been reading all of this crap today and find it astounding. as the owner of a very nice 93 land yacht moho i am having trouble even understanding it all. i bought this thing to have fun with my wife and grandkids. so far, it has been absolutley perfect. is this some kind of club or what? you buy one and you have fun and when you die your kids sell it or take it home. i did NOT buy it to deal with constitutions and by-laws. i could care less who is in you folks apparent club. enjoy it. the kind of people i am encountering here are NOT people i wud want to be around anyway. THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN. I dont even know who wbbci is. get a life.
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