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Old 02-06-2011, 05:55 PM   #221
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I said a long time ago, "Grandfather current WBCCI members, let them own another brand, what ever they want, with that, no voting rights or can hold any Unit, Region or International level positition". I suggested that to the IBT back in 2006/2007.

I got some real good emails from the IBT/EC7 when I sent them that email.

They were not willing to give up the power.
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Old 02-06-2011, 05:57 PM   #222
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What does Airstream really "manufacture?"

If I read the WBCCI constitution correctly, anyone who owns a recreational vehicle "MANUFACTURED" by Airstream, Inc. is eligible to be a WBCCI member. Of course, this language pre-dates the acquisition of Airstream by Thor, Inc., the current owner of the company. Thor made a decision to discontinue manufacturing Airstream branded class A motorized RV's in 2006. According to Dave Schumann's speech at the 2004 WBCCI International rally in Lansing, MI, the quality of Airstream brand class A motorized RV's was already under review when he stated that warranty claims were subject to root cause analysis, trying to drilll down to the cause of the claim. Was it due to a defective component from a supplier or was it due to a manufacturing defect in the Airstream factory in Jackson Center, OH? The answer came less than 2 years later when production ceased. Now, comes the Airstream class B Interstate and Avenue motorized units. In my opinion, a very valid case can be made that neither of these units are actually "MANUFACTURED" by Airstream, Inc. Airstream receives the Interstate as a Mercedes-Benz 3500 van with no interior, installs components manufactured by other suppliers, and an Interstate touring coach rolls out the other end of the factory. What did Airstream actually manufacture? You figure it out. This scenario is essentially the same for the Chevrolet chassis/van called the Avenue touring coach. I submit that Airstream is the conversion company for these products and not the manufacturer. I consider this a very literal interpretation of these products, ie., the "letter of the law" vs. "the spirit of the law." I, for one, am far less concerned about what equipment a member has when they are willing to be contributors to the WBCCI spirit of fun, fellowship, and adventure. There are those on this forum who want to raise issues of constitutional compliance as a never ending topic for discussion with little tolerance for dissenters and no agenda to try and move toward a consensus meaning "the outcome may not be all that I want, however, I can live with the compromise." How about it, can we get to a consensus in the near term or just find more ways to say no and watch the club go the same way as several RV brands that no longer exist?
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Old 02-06-2011, 06:11 PM   #223
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The B vans are converted at the Airstream factory in Jackson Center and sold through Airstream dealers with an Airstream warentee. I think most people would consider them Airstreams and the club has accepted them for membership for over 15 years. If a Thor motorhome simply had a badge stuck on it saying it was a WBCCI Edition and sold through the usual Thor Dealerships, I think most people would not see them as being an "Airstream". I am not sure what Don Shafer wants to buy but I think he wants more slides. I think he should buy it and move on with his life outside of WBCCI. He will still have lots of Airstream Motorhome friends who proudly display their FMCA plaques. They can camp together at the FMCA Rallies.
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Old 02-06-2011, 06:59 PM   #224
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this is amazing

i have been reading all of this crap today and find it astounding. as the owner of a very nice 93 land yacht moho i am having trouble even understanding it all. i bought this thing to have fun with my wife and grandkids. so far, it has been absolutley perfect. is this some kind of club or what? you buy one and you have fun and when you die your kids sell it or take it home. i did NOT buy it to deal with constitutions and by-laws. i could care less who is in you folks apparent club. enjoy it. the kind of people i am encountering here are NOT people i wud want to be around anyway. THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN. I dont even know who wbbci is. get a life.
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Old 02-06-2011, 07:12 PM   #225
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There are no more new B vans

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwightdi View Post
The B vans are converted at the Airstream factory in Jackson Center and sold through Airstream dealers with an Airstream warentee.
What you didn't comprehend was that the old B vans on a Ford chassis are no longer built. I don't know the exact year they ended, however, the are a class C motorized RV (mini-motor home in industry terms). The new vehicles are a class B motorized touring coach using industry terminology. The point I was making has to do with manufacturing at the Airstream factory. The old "B-vans" were actually manufactured in Jackson Center with a body manufactured by Airstream and attached to a Ford 350 cutaway van chassis. Neither the Interstate or Avenue are made this way. You should try visiting other brand specific RV clubs like Holiday Rambler, Monaco, or Newmar. The majority of their motorized units will also be displaying the FMCA "goose egg". There's no reason to just belong to one club if you have friends in other brands and wish to socialize with them. I'll bet there are many WBCCI members as well as HRRVC, Newmar Kountry Klub, and others who belong to the Good Sam club. I do and attend their Samborees and enjoy their members and activities.
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Old 02-06-2011, 07:45 PM   #226
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Agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by bukib View Post
i have been reading all of this crap today and find it astounding. as the owner of a very nice 93 land yacht moho i am having trouble even understanding it all. i bought this thing to have fun with my wife and grandkids. so far, it has been absolutley perfect. is this some kind of club or what? you buy one and you have fun and when you die your kids sell it or take it home. i did NOT buy it to deal with constitutions and by-laws. i could care less who is in you folks apparent club. enjoy it. the kind of people i am encountering here are NOT people i wud want to be around anyway. THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN. I dont even know who wbbci is. get a life.



When you put out hard earned money for a RV, and look forward to new travelling experiences and new friendships, the last thing you want or need, is to engage is POLITICS. Thats why I hesitate now to belong to "a club".
Simple solution. If you belong to a club with rules when you went in, then - you better follow them. If you don't like the rules - leave. If you don't follow the rules - expect to get asked to leave.
The above advice should apply to any "club" or, on a larger scale, any "COUNTRY" for that matter.
When the leadership's vision changes from the original intent of the rules it might be time to change the leadership.
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Old 02-06-2011, 07:56 PM   #227
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......When the leadership's vision changes from the original intent of the rules it might be time to change the leadership.
Dave

Therein lies the rub.
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Old 02-06-2011, 11:56 PM   #228
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JW GREEN, The Airstream B-190 which utilized a Ford E-350 Van is a Class B motorhome, A "B-190" not Class C. Airstream can-openered the entire roof panel, then screwed on the fiberglass bubble top for increase headroom. They were built from approximately 1989-1999. However a couple have shown up on Ebay that the seller called model year 2000. May have late in the year 1999, and re-MSO'ed. We know the bubbles were screwed on when we did a re-do on a 1997 B-190 we used to own. Counted 117 metal screws over the cockpit to hold the buble on..Who knows how many were used around the bubbles' perimeter.
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Old 02-07-2011, 07:35 AM   #229
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A new Airstream class A motorhome?

You must be dreaming if you think that a class A motorhome, front engine or pusher will ever come out of the Airstream plant in Jackson Center, OH. Due to the Thor corporate decision to create the Thor Motor Coach division last year by combining Damon with the Four Winds divsions, Airstream will remain 100% towables (not including the class B touring coaches). It just won't happen.
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:51 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by jwgreen View Post
You must be dreaming if you think that a class A motorhome, front engine or pusher will ever come out of the Airstream plant in Jackson Center, OH. Due to the Thor corporate decision to create the Thor Motor Coach division last year by combining Damon with the Four Winds divsions, Airstream will remain 100% towables (not including the class B touring coaches). It just won't happen.
Therein lies some of the spice in the rub.

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Old 02-07-2011, 01:31 PM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bukib View Post
i have been reading all of this crap today and find it astounding. as the owner of a very nice 93 land yacht moho i am having trouble even understanding it all. i bought this thing to have fun with my wife and grandkids. so far, it has been absolutley perfect. is this some kind of club or what? you buy one and you have fun and when you die your kids sell it or take it home. i did NOT buy it to deal with constitutions and by-laws. i could care less who is in you folks apparent club. enjoy it. the kind of people i am encountering here are NOT people i wud want to be around anyway. THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN. I dont even know who wbbci is. get a life.
"is this some kind of club or what?" Yes, and apparently you are not a member.

" i did NOT buy it to deal with constitutions and by-laws." You don't have to, you are not a member.

"the kind of people i am encountering here are NOT people i wud want to be around anyway." You don't have to, you are not a member.

"I dont even know who wbbci is." That's because you are not a member!

"get a life." You enjoy your life, and your motorhome. The WBCCI was originally an all-Airstream-all-travel-trailer Club. If you don't understand that you can't understand the problems we are having with motorhome owning leaders that want us to be the FMCA.
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Old 02-07-2011, 07:48 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rideair
I said a long time ago, "Grandfather current WBCCI members, let them own another brand, what ever they want, with that, no voting rights or can hold any Unit, Region or International level positition". I suggested that to the IBT back in 2006/2007.

I got some real good emails from the IBT/EC7 when I sent them that email.

They were not willing to give up the power.
I agree with you. I could support that amendment. I might include full rights for MALs. We wouldn't want SOB owners to have the same rights as Airstream owners.
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Old 02-10-2011, 01:30 PM   #233
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New quality control program announced by Thor Motor coach

Thor Motor Coach division announced today, Feb. 10, 2011, that a new quality control program named Gold Star Inspection will be implemented immediately. Additional information is available at the following link: Quality Inspection | Thor Motor Coach
Thor, as we all know by now, is the parent corporation of Airstream, Inc. If the contributors on this thread have concerns about whether a Thor Motor Coach built unit is a quality product, this new program will reinforce the corporate committment to building and selling a quality product. Therein lies another rub...the name on the outside of the product since it will not be Airstream, and, under the current WBCCI constitutional language, ineligible for WBCCI membership. It does indicate, however, that TMC products are a quality product commensurate with Airstream quality but only lacking the Airstream name on the outside. As an RV owner, I value quality and longevity as priority items for RV ownership. Membership in a brand specific RV owners club is an asset and up to the club members to add value to the ownership experience. Let's look for ways to keep our members and not beat them up over trivial issues.
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Old 02-10-2011, 01:41 PM   #234
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so.... your saying, we should let the Thor products in, even if they DON'T carry the Airstream name cause they will still be a quality product? This is an Airstream club, not a Thor club. I don't view letting SOB motorhomes in as a trivial issue, I see it as divisive. It actually means an immediate end to the club, and the formation of an entirely new club.
You can bet the day they let in any other product other than an airstream, the membership in the WBCCI will drop by about 75% - that is the end of the club.
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Old 02-10-2011, 02:01 PM   #235
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Thor Diesel Club

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f505...lub-68014.html

Thor Diesel Club

http://www.fmca.com/
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Old 02-10-2011, 03:27 PM   #236
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Good Sam Club: SOBs and Airstreams.

WBCCI: Only Airstreams.

There is already a place for SOBs. MHO.
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Old 02-10-2011, 04:25 PM   #237
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Quality

Thor does make quality products, but they don't belong in the WBCCI unless that quality product is an Airstream. Nothing more and nothing less.

Lets not muddy the waters. This non-Airstream product in the club is far from trivial. Want to keep members? Show me the value for my dues increase.....................
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Old 02-10-2011, 06:46 PM   #238
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Quality or not (and mostly NOT) in Thor branded motor homes IS NOT A CRITERIA for WBCCI membership! What are you trying to say?

And while on the subject of quality, I just got back from a service call on a Thor diesel pusher motor home. Let me tell you, the quality of any Airstream product is WAY beyond what I just experienced in this motor home, and the quality of Airstreams sure isn't where it should or could be for the prices they get for new units! Thor should be ashamed of putting out such a piece of crap and 'proudly putting their name on it', especially when compared to what the rest of the industry is making!

I feel sorry for the owners of this coach, I really do.

And BTW, SOB owners are more than welcome in the FMCA, Good Sam, Escapees and numerous other open brand RV clubs. LEAVE THE WBCCI TO AIRSTREAM OWNERS, NOT WANNA BEES IN SOBs!!!
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Old 02-10-2011, 07:02 PM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwgreen View Post
Thor Motor Coach division announced today, Feb. 10, 2011, that a new quality control program named Gold Star Inspection will be implemented immediately. Additional information is available at the following link: Quality Inspection | Thor Motor Coach
Thor, as we all know by now, is the parent corporation of Airstream, Inc. If the contributors on this thread have concerns about whether a Thor Motor Coach built unit is a quality product, this new program will reinforce the corporate committment to building and selling a quality product. Therein lies another rub...the name on the outside of the product since it will not be Airstream, and, under the current WBCCI constitutional language, ineligible for WBCCI membership. It does indicate, however, that TMC products are a quality product commensurate with Airstream quality but only lacking the Airstream name on the outside. As an RV owner, I value quality and longevity as priority items for RV ownership. Membership in a brand specific RV owners club is an asset and up to the club members to add value to the ownership experience. Let's look for ways to keep our members and not beat them up over trivial issues.
If they want to own a SOB motorhome that is fine. Just let them join the FMCA and not be in the WBCCI. The WBCCI is not an organization of SOB RV's. Let SOB's in and the WBCCI will turn out like Travelers Rest Resort. TR used to be an Airstream only park. Today there are less than 40% Airstreams in the park with more park models being added every year.
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Old 02-10-2011, 07:16 PM   #240
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Thor should be ashamed of putting out such a piece of crap and 'proudly putting their name on it', especially when compared to what the rest of the industry is making!
So in your opinion what brands are the best value?
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