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Old 01-30-2011, 12:22 PM   #155
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OK Bob,

You got my interest.

What does the new constitution say about non-airstream product owners being in the WBCCI?

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Old 01-30-2011, 12:24 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by lewster View Post
Part of the problem is the state of the 'luxury motorhome' industry in general. There are many, many coaches of this age coming on the market as their owners are either aging out of them or are upgrading to newer models with more slide-outs, more features and a bigger price tag. Supply and demand. One can get a far better unit than what Airstream had to offer in this price segment.
Originally Posted by lewster View Post

And while I'm at it, if one looks at where the Airstream motorhome (excluding the classics) sits in the overall market, the picture is not very good! One of the reasons that Airstream exited this Market was due to the simple fact that they could not compete on features or price with the larger manufacturers like Monaco, Holiday Rambler, Beaver, Safari, Newmar, Country Coach, Winnebago and even with the lower end of this market like the Thor brands of 4 Winds and Mandalay.

This segment is where I spend most of my service time. Not only have I not seen many Airstream motor homes, but the few that I have been in just can not compare to the other, more established brands in quality of components and construction, price, cabinetry and other features. Airstream can get away with this in the trailer market as they have no real competition for their aluminum 'iconic' trailers, but they fall far short when playing with the 'big boys'.

I'm sure that those in the WBCCI realize this after checking out their friends coaches (think FMCA) and get caught up in 'coach envy' and want some SOB that better suits their perceived image, tastes and wallet. The 'demand', if any, will be very small unless Airstream designs and builds a very unique motorhome and prices it accordingly. BTW, I know of 8 super luxury coaches that were recently ordered at prices of $1.5 million to over $2 million, so demand is there if the right product is brought to market.

This post may get censored?


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Old 01-31-2011, 01:09 AM   #157
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best moho?

I have to agree with Lew -- the best motor home for the money hasn't been an Airstream. But the Airstream has been the only brand providing access to WBCCI membership. That's worth a lot if you can afford it.

We're committed trailerites -- for now. Love our CCD 25 and have never seen a model we'd rather have, regardless of brand. But . . . if we wanted a motor home then we would have been hard pressed to pay the premium for Airstream.

Used Airstream motor homes, on the other hand, are readily available and look great to us. We'd be perfectly happy, if we wanted to buy a motor home, picking from the used Airstream class A's.

Like Rick said, the mileage on the diesel powertrains isn't a threat -- he has over 500k miles on his diesel and going strong all over the country.

Easy to see why Airstream couldn't keep "producing" class a motor homes -- tiny niche. Harder to understand why WBCCI thinks survival hinges on membership from owners of Thor-branded motor homes. Then again, it's very difficult to understand management decisions from down here in the trenches.

Despite warnings to the contrary (apologies to LG,) we're not gnoshing and kvetching over our club's crummy outlook. Instead we're enjoying camping and fellowship with our airstream friends. We met them through the club, we continue to see them through the club, and club events (caravans, internationals, regionals, and unit) continue to promise we'll reconnect with old friends and make new ones too.

I appreciate the suggestion (Bob's?) to let our region and unit Prez's know our position on Airstream vs other brands in this airstream owners' association. And I'm glad Region 3's President is not only reading but commenting on this thread.
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Old 01-31-2011, 09:55 AM   #158
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As I noticed in another thread a SOB motor home came to the IBT towing the new sprinter Airstream and nothing was said. I think the whole problem has been solved, not how I would like it, but has been solved. It will be a sad day when an IP with a SOB is installed.
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Old 01-31-2011, 10:02 AM   #159
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Supposedly they must reside/ live/sleep/? in the Airstream vehicle.. My bet is the SOB is not being used a a storage unit.
I recall encountering a Prevost/sprinter combination somewhere in the last year, possibly in a rest area, and wondering if it wasn't a little overkill. Can't be too many of that combination out there
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:05 PM   #160
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The nagging question that I have not heard answered by anyone from the IBT rally:

Were there any members attending the rally, parked completely off-site, that were not in a hotel but in a non-Airstream RV? Norm's response only addressed the Prevost on-site.
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:52 AM   #161
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Put me down in the " significant disinterest" category
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:19 AM   #162
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Thanks for posting that letter Leo. It really shows where the motorhome issue lies or has been left...basically without support from anyone except a few passionate members that wont let go. And yet the IBT has decided to order yet another motorhome committee. (What happened to the last one that just reported?) To what end I ask? Probably to satisfy that vocal minority who demand WBCCI, Thor, and Airstream hop to it without delay so someone (we don't even know who) can get a new motorhome that would not normally qualify for membership otherwise and stay in the club, (perhaps even remain in a leadership position.) This is either a matter of coasting during their watch, going out on a limb for a buddy, or ineffectual oblivion or deliberate dismissal of the fact of overwhelming lack of general membership approval, though proven many times over by survey after survey and membership votes. This again is not a member driven initiative that the leadership is putting forward. Either which way and though it is said not to have a financial impact upon the club it is a waste of time and energy and adds more to the level of bureaucracy in the club and diverts time energy and attention away from the new business of the club to support and forward membership issues. More work and more jobs needlessly spread out to appease the few and feign work and direction.

Exactly what are the results of the Mid-Winter IBT meetings and rally as pertaining to club business productivity and at what expenditure? Nothing that mere members were able to participate or comment upon that is for certain, and probably no mistake there... I do also find it interesting to note that while the rally reports were being discussed once again it was requested that there be a report in regard to the Mid-Winter IBT rallies. That particular seminar seems to be able to fly under the wire and not be subject to scrutiny or the same parameters as other rallies and events.
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:45 AM   #163
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I haven't check the forum for a while... but how (not) surprising to see the moho is back!!!

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Old 02-02-2011, 11:17 AM   #164
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A little history

First we heard,

Jan 7, 2011 - 65GT quoting the WBCCI MoHo committee report. (Original available at )
Originally Posted by 65GT View Post
Committee Report X


A new meeting date was set up for Mr. Huttle to meet with the committee at the Swiss Festival National Rally at Sugarcreek Oh. Attending that meeting was the following members of WBCCI. International 2nd VP Don C., President of Region 4 John T. and Karin K. 1st VP of region 4 and Chairman of the committee.

In the discussion we were informed that all products would be Thor and that Thor will take over the manufacturing of all Motor Homes. It was suggested that like Airstream does with the B van and the new Avenue motor home. Question to Mr. Huttle was is it possible that a class A motor home be handled in the same manner". He indicated that it'' is a possibility that Airstream and Thor could do that. A motor home manufactured by Thor for Airstream and Badge Airstream.

Mr Huttle advised the committee he met with that he would discuss this possibility with Airstream and Thor and make a report to the IBT at the Mid Winter board meeting in Robstown, Texas. The Committee feels if this is the road that Airstream will take then no motion should be required for a change in the current policies as this is being done today with the B-Van and the Avenue.
Now we hear,

Feb 2, 2011
Originally Posted by 65GT View Post
This is the contents of the memo from Airstream to the WBCCI with regards to Airstream's once willingness to produce a WBCCI edition Class A product. This memo was read in its entirety at this past IBT Meeting and you will be able to hear the IP read this memo in full once the broadcasts are posted:


To: Cindy R.
From: Larry H.
Date: January 27, 2011
Re: Class “A” Motorhome Discussion / WBCCI Membership Acceptance


Cindy, I believe the Thor Motor Coach officials have lost interest in pursuing a workable arrangement with the WBCCI as a result of their experience in 2007 with a low WBCCI approval by the general membership of its involvement.

Without significant WBCCI support and strong interest in seeking an immediate workable agreement, I feel strongly the Thor Motor Coach Division officials will not seek to move forward.
Can’t really blame either Airstream or Thor for this position—they see gas prices heading up again and the motor home market heading down again soon.

And finally,

Jan 30, 2011 LI Pets comment on the MoHo issue
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
You folks may want to read the new constitution as it may relate to this issue!
Kinda sounds like the new, improved, constitution and bylaws solve the problem by opening the club to non-Airstream motor homes, doesn’t it?
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Old 02-02-2011, 11:27 AM   #165
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Only to those that see the glass half empty like you John.

You are a super negative person.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:00 PM   #166
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Thumbs up

Originally Posted by Nuvite-F View Post
Kinda sounds like the new, improved, constitution and bylaws solve the problem by opening the club to non-Airstream motor homes, doesn’t it?
I had never thought of that. But if delegates were eliminated and since Forrest's amendment giving more power to the delegates was returned and would not be neccessary it would certainly give the IBT a clearer shot at it again. SLAM DUNK SCORE hmmmm Definitely worth pondering.

Another member brought it to my attention that a motivation I had overlooked was the quest for increased revenue. I don't think any of us will forget the PIP's statement that the IBT pursue quality members and not quantity. Could be why the Internationals are so high priced and that the exodus of members is not particularly alarming to leadership and even calculated in the projections of future dues increases.

We were told this club is about friends and not brand identity. It doesn't matter to them what they are driving. Their positions of leadership and recognition and perks provided by the club doesn't hurt them much either. The emphasis is on money and ego, now where have we seen that evidenced before?
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:55 PM   #167
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Yes it Does!

Originally Posted by Nuvite-F View Post

Kinda sounds like the new, improved, constitution and bylaws solve the problem by opening the club to non-Airstream motor homes, doesn’t it?

You hit that nail on the head. BUT do we really think they have the guts to do something that stupid?

Just asking...............
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:31 PM   #168
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Oh I can't stand it:

Ed, you have to ask that question?? You know, and we know the answer is YES!!

Look. it appears that the C&BC is calling the shots. Our IP, Mr Beu, last week makes an agreement behind closed doors with Region 11 Prez Neumarkel, and was the C&BC Chairman present? Was he present during Tuesday's rollcall that was broadcast, at least I didn't hear him say, 'Present or Here." I maybe wrong.
Come last Friday, the Chairnan of C&BC, Mr Shafer is present and we heard him speak. IP, Mr Beu, recants the agreement pretaining to the Denco/Region 11 motion, saying he misspoke. Hello!!
In 2007, then IP Mr Shafer at Perry International, who owns a Class A Airstream diesel pusher, and now is C&BC Chairman, is overheard at Perry whispering on recording, that the motorhome issue isn't over, and PRESTO!!! Look what we are talking about NOW.
This new Constitution smacks of mystery. We haven't been given a good reason why the old one needs a complete re-write. As Forrest said earlier, a Constitution is a living document which can be modified as time goes on. You don't see the United States' Constitution being re-written, at least for now.
New Constitution, new Bylaws, SOB Class A Motorhome discussion all in one bag. This smacks of something, but what.
So, someone (Bob?) produce this new Constiution now, and put an end to these jeering snippets when "Leo, or Nuvite-F, or Wheel Interested" speak.

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