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Old 07-16-2011, 12:53 PM   #15
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I've noticed too that it is getting harder to find someone who wants to step up, but there is always next time.


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Old 07-17-2011, 08:06 AM   #16
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And it is made harder when folks who are ignorant choose to express that ignorance in the form of attacks on the integrity and motivations of those who do volunteer; or those who have an axe to grind; or those who just disagree with something by throwing mud.
And it gets even more difficult when people are not willing to except their failures and set a course to correcting the issues. It become impossible when any criticism is viewed as "axe grinding" and "mud slinging".
The bottom line is a once grand club is running on fumes. To not realize this is actually the "ignorance" you speak of.
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Old 07-17-2011, 08:14 AM   #17
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The "power" is in the hands of the members.
What club are you talking about? Just curious, because that does not exist in the club you are referring to. The only power members have is to not pay their dues. The current membership numbers show they are exercising their power by close to 18% every single year and have been doing so since 1976.
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Old 07-17-2011, 09:22 AM   #18
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Hey, you guys sound like you've read the labor union manuals uncovered in a recent lawsuit.

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And it gets even more difficult when people are not willing to except their failures and set a course to correcting the issues.
and it even harder when that 'acceptance' is being forced on one by a bitter and angry mob that comes across as rather distanced from reality - much as illustrated here.

There isn't much of a 'debate' or discussion when a point is offered that is just refuted. Look for example on the 'circular logic' and 'power' points raised. The response was not to try to understand their underpinnings but rather just a plain 'no it's not'. i.e. a complete refusal to accept an idea or even sound it out.

Then there's the example of projection.

Things don't change in any 'good' way when that change is driven by the wrong emotions.

On the other hand, I do see change being driven by folks who aren't so angry and bitter and full of the conspiracy ethos. What troubles me is that some of that effort is an attempt to appease those vocal and irrational complainers and that sort of appeasement usually doesn't work out well.

Take all the energy of the hate being shown here and direct that at positive education of the 'masses' about the need for change and the path you think is best. If your ideas really do have merit, they will have influence. If they have sufficient influence, you will stimulate the change you desire.

But then again, if you don't get your way, throwing a tantrum like a 2yo probably isn't in your best interests in the long run.
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Old 07-17-2011, 09:24 AM   #19
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. It become impossible when any criticism is viewed as "axe grinding" and "mud slinging".
.

Or possibly as a cause to file multiple grievances and remove someone from the club
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Old 07-17-2011, 09:47 AM   #20
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hate?

Bryan just because someone doesn't post that your post was insightful if not inciteful or engage according to your expectations it doesn't mean it hasn't been weighed in one's mind offline.

It would be the wise thing to pick up, dust off and begin with renewed vigor down a different path. I have. I am waiting for the remote region officers to move up to the executive committee positions. It has been mentioned patience needs to be employed with regard to change. It's gonna be a while. Have a seat. I think most of us are marking time in this thread.

Would you consider personally organizing a slate of candidates perhaps even including yourself to run from the floor?
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Old 07-17-2011, 10:00 AM   #21
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When did hate come into this? I never uttered the word hate, brother.

as I said earlier...

And it gets even more difficult when people are not willing to except their failures and set a course to correcting the issues.
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Old 07-17-2011, 11:04 AM   #22
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Hey, you guys sound like you've read the labor union manuals uncovered in a recent lawsuit.
A very interesting Read, but not sure which side your were directing that comment to.

The Leadership dose have a history of using scare tactics, as most recently presented by Mr. Schaffer smoke screen at the International, and Legal Pressure, frequent use of cease and desist letters, to accomplish there means.

Not sure they have ever attempted to bankrupt anything other than the Club they are sucking the life from.

Yes the membership has contributed to that eventual bankruptcy by withdrawal from membership. However that action is a singular one of choice and not coordinated effort.
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Old 07-18-2011, 08:29 PM   #23
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Hey, you guys sound like you've read the labor union manuals uncovered in a recent lawsuit.
The Washington Times is not known for unbiased journalism. It is associated with the Unification Church. The Washington Times - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Old 07-18-2011, 09:33 PM   #24
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The Washington Times is not known for unbiased journalism. It is associated with the Unification Church. The Washington Times - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Of course, Wikipedia is not known for unbiased journalism, either. . .
.
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Old 07-19-2011, 03:51 AM   #25
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Of course, Wikipedia is not known for unbiased journalism, either. . .
.
Nor are many leaders, directors, or management types.
Heck, there is not one unbiased voice here.
Just ask a question about tires, axles, and the most toxic of all subject matter,THE WB, and a total heap of unbiased opinions will come to light.
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Old 07-19-2011, 03:34 PM   #26
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Nor are many leaders, directors, or management types.
Heck, there is not one unbiased voice here.
Just ask a question about tires, axles, and the most toxic of all subject matter,THE WB, and a total heap of unbiased opinions will come to light.
I'd like to argue about that, but I guess it's more appropriate to argue on the Argue Thread. I try hard to not be biased.

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Old 07-29-2011, 08:44 AM   #27
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Hey, you guys sound like you've read the labor union manuals uncovered in a recent lawsuit.



and it even harder when that 'acceptance' is being forced on one by a bitter and angry mob that comes across as rather distanced from reality - much as illustrated here.

There isn't much of a 'debate' or discussion when a point is offered that is just refuted. Look for example on the 'circular logic' and 'power' points raised. The response was not to try to understand their underpinnings but rather just a plain 'no it's not'. i.e. a complete refusal to accept an idea or even sound it out.

Then there's the example of projection.

Things don't change in any 'good' way when that change is driven by the wrong emotions.

On the other hand, I do see change being driven by folks who aren't so angry and bitter and full of the conspiracy ethos. What troubles me is that some of that effort is an attempt to appease those vocal and irrational complainers and that sort of appeasement usually doesn't work out well.

Take all the energy of the hate being shown here and direct that at positive education of the 'masses' about the need for change and the path you think is best. If your ideas really do have merit, they will have influence. If they have sufficient influence, you will stimulate the change you desire.

But then again, if you don't get your way, throwing a tantrum like a 2yo probably isn't in your best interests in the long run.

Thank you, you just proved everyone's point here on this forum. The club is just not for those elite members who have either higher education or higher incomes, who also subscribe to an inquisition styled formality that the average joe finds both uncomfortable and uneccessary. Your presumption of the neccessity for a correct order of play including changes at will, just shows how biased you are towards mere members.

The fact that you agree with a system which carries with it the power of manipulation just goes to show all of us who just want to have a good time, that your in agreement with a system of failure. If you call the present bylaws and constitution fair then you must agree that a smaller more elite club is the one you favor.

There is no way the present organization and managemnet of the club can be changed from below. It hasn't happened in 12 years that I'm aware of and I see no way the club will ever expand beyond its present failed state. This club will eventually disband because the mission has been compromised by those who's agenda it is to make the club something it was not!

The portrayal of angry members as both incompetant and unwilling to listen to your version of the truth is so disengenous I can't stand it. I sat before the IBT EC7 in 2004 to discuss the relationship between members of the VAC and the club at large and was basically told to shut my mouth and quit complaining, you want talk about who was angry? We were dressed down like criminals and told that we had no authority to do anything other than babysit the rowdy crowd down by the airport! quote "There will be no more tail wagging the dog!" end quote.

This is leadership?

I manage to calm down from this incident only to watch my best Airstream friend leave the club is disgust. If I'm angry, its only because you have left me no choice but to leave my other Airstream friends behind in an attempt to hasten the club demise by not supporting it!

No amount of good will can change a system that has only self interest as its goal!
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:48 PM   #28
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Leaders in the WBCCI aren't picked for their ability to lead but rather their ability to play politics as usuall.

In my unit, Pensacola 29, we had a unit president that was in the process of making some much needed changes. He "fast tracked" another guy who was going to futher these changes to be his successor. When a few couples who considered themselves the "old timers" of the club and thought things should be dictatced the way they thought things should be disagreed with the selection of the next president, they threatened to take nominations from the floor in an effort of getting one of their cronnies in there, rather than go by the slate of officers on the board. Before the next election took place, the guy who was going to be president basically said screw this and quit. In the meanwhile, these old timer croonies simply told the board they were going to appoint themselves to be in power to replace those of us who quit, no election neccessary.

Of course circumstances took place at International that contributed to the rift in the Mystic Springs Unit as well. One being that the "official" unit account of what took place isnt' at all what happened in reality but the then region 6 president backed that story up because he is personal freinds with one of the old timer cronnies.

During this period, the unit membership which had numbered around 110 has dropped to 65 and will drop even more this year because some of us renewed before fully knwing what took place.

I did my own personaly investigation as to what took place and really happened, yet the then region 6 president said he couldn't know what took place because it was all too complicated and was just going to not do anything aobut it and let it go away on its own. Well, the problem remains but a lot of people who disagreed with what took place did go away. I suppose for the region 6 pres. that's the sme thing as the problem going away on its own.

When I sent out an email to many of the members describing my findings as to what took place, I was attacked by a couple of these cronnies calling me a liar. Yet they refused my challanged to an open public debate in a unit meeting.

The way I see it, a corrupted chain of "leadership" runs all the way up the ladder to the top, with the higher ups defending what those in lower leadership do because they then expect those lower than them to back them up in return.

The bottomline is that the Pensacola unit 29 unit is in jepardy of loosing their club's Mysic Springs campground because of lack of support. Rather than the current leaders, rather, dictators step down, they would much rather ermain in power and run the unit into the ground.
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