WBCCI Forum- Voting Procedures

[wheel interested]

Can some one explain the voting procedures for the International for me and how they are tabulated?

Members have a unit vote then the votes are "calculated" to include 100% of the units' vote on the basis of the average of votes taken of those in attendance, or the president will vote in leu of that. Each unit then has a delegate to send to present their unit vote, or the delegate can vote his choice in leu of that. Then as the vote is taken and calculated how is that added up? Does each unit get one vote regardless of the number of members in each unit, or do they give a total of yes and no votes that all get tabulated for the club?

Thanks.

[2airishuman]

hi c'

this info still seems to apply....

are u gonna check the constitution and bylaws of every unit?

i'd imagine many boiler plate these bits with modifications for unique aspects in a given unit/member base.

many threads linked to searches on 'unit weighting' 'unit voting strength' or related terms,

and i do seem to remember someone posting on this issue last march/april...

but i ain't readin' that stuff again

cheers
2air'

Originally Posted by InsideOut

Each Unit's Delegate will have a number of votes based on the number of members in their Unit. They will vote "yes", "no" or "abstain" based on how their Unit's members direct them to. Each Unit has written in their Bylaws how the Delegate's vote is to be directed and how the Delegate is to be selected. If there is a question as to how your Unit arrives at their Delegate's directive, look to your Unit's Constitution & Bylaws for clarification or ask your President or any Executive Board Member, they should be listed (along with the Constitution & Bylaws) in your Annual Directory or on your Unit's website: DenCO Website - Bylaws, Article 6 Delegates.

[wheel interested]

I know Sharon explained the weighted voting very well, I shall go do a search through some threads but I was not certain that after the unit vote was gotten any one described it from there.

What I am angling to find out is just how much my vote counts. And next year if I do join again I would probably join as a MAL with or without a vote. Where does my vote go and what does my vote do, that's my quest today.

[Stream 1529]

We just completed our rally meeting, and the vote process was explained to us. Our delegate, the Unit President, will vote accoriding to individual votes. A ballot will be sent to all unit members, and will be tallied for and against. So, if 30 members vote to allow SOB's into WBCCI, and 46 vote against the motion our delegate will cast 30 votes for and 46 votes against.

I was worried that it would be a block vote based on the plurality of the individual member votes.

__________Tom

[wkerfoot]

Originally Posted by Stream 1529

We just completed our rally meeting, and the vote process was explained to us. Our delegate, the Unit President, will vote accoriding to individual votes. A ballot will be sent to all unit members, and will be tallied for and against. So, if 30 members vote to allow SOB's into WBCCI, and 46 vote against the motion our delegate will cast 30 votes for and 46 votes against.

I was worried that it would be a block vote based on the plurality of the individual member votes.

__________Tom

Tom,

What about the votes of those members who do not vote?

Bill

[wheel interested]

Thanks for the reply. So then each unit will have two totals that they add those all together and that's it. That's pretty straight forward then.

What is a block vote? Just for or against? Is that when the unit president votes for everyone? If that happened how does that get tabulated onto your units count then, as 100% (either for or against) the number of their members?

[jimmickle]

Originally Posted by Stream 1529

We just completed our rally meeting, and the vote process was explained to us. Our delegate, the Unit President, will vote accoriding to individual votes. A ballot will be sent to all unit members, and will be tallied for and against. So, if 30 members vote to allow SOB's into WBCCI, and 46 vote against the motion our delegate will cast 30 votes for and 46 votes against.

I was worried that it would be a block vote based on the plurality of the individual member votes.

__________Tom

As I read the Blue Book, Article XVII, Delegate Voting, the total votes of the unit are to be divided to the same ratio as the actual vote. For example if only 10 members of a fifty member unit vote and the vote is six to four, then the vote at international should be 30 to 20.

[WayWard Wind]

No matter how the votes are counted, one must be prepared for some ---well ---chaff. We have our unit meeting the middle of May and it will be interesting to hear how the members feel regarding this issuse.
Best,

[dwightdi]

Having been a delegate a number of times and had to set thru alot of roll call tabulations, I can tell you that almost half of the units use the block vote. Each unit has the choice to to do it what ever way they want. The deligate from a block voting unit votes whatever number of members headquarters says they have. We can never be sure how the unit arrived at their method of voting but it is what it is. If you are in the majority in a unit and really want your vote to count and your unit to have their fair share in how the outcome comes out, you should have your unit use the block vote system if it is allowed by your unit constitution. The way it actually occurs it is a little like the US presidential electorial college. If some units use the proportional vote method and some use the block method the block units have more of a say in how the election will turn out. One member equal one vote in the system we have is never equal if half the units use the block system. You can easily have the majority of the members be against a proposition and have the minority that have local control of block voting units win the election. The only way it turns out fair is if every unit would use the block system.

[wkerfoot]

Originally Posted by dwightdi

Having been a delegate a number of times and had to set thru alot of roll call tabulations, I can tell you that almost half of the units use the block vote. Each unit has the choice to to do it what ever way they want. The deligate from a block voting unit votes whatever number of members headquarters says they have. We can never be sure how the unit arrived at their method of voting but it is what it is. If you are in the majority in a unit and really want your vote to count and your unit to have their fair share in how the outcome comes out, you should have your unit use the block vote system if it is allowed by your unit constitution. The way it actually occurs it is a little like the US presidential electorial college. If some units use the proportional vote method and some use the block method the block units have more of a say in how the election will turn out. One member equal one vote in the system we have is never equal if half the units use the block system. You can easily have the majority of the members be against a proposition and have the minority that have local control of block voting units win the election. The only way it turns out fair is if every unit would use the block system.

Dwight,

I disagree, proportional voting is better. For example, if every unit voted 51/49 in favor of a constitutional amendment and all units used block voting, the amendment would pass 100% for and 0% against, when the popular vote was 51% for and 49% against. With proportional voting, the amendment fails since it does not have 2/3 in favor.

Bill

[wheel interested]

Thanks Dwight and Bill. Both great responses and I am learning a lot. It sounds like if I were in a unit that voted the block and in the minority then my vote would only matter in establishing majority/minority. Am I correct to assume that a vote is taken to find out who is the majority and what they want? Then are both types of voting procedures conducted alike with a member vote and then the block unit going one step further in strategy to block? Is that block vote something that can be chosen to be exercised or not, and if it is an option is it to be opted for 1. before or 2. after each vote is taken?

But Dwight didn't say block had the advantage if all units voted the block just that if it is divided the block units could have the advantage over the proportional voting units, right?

This is not so straight forward, rather involved, I'd say.

Jim thanks for simplifying the proportional voting method. I can see if only a handful of members get together to vote and are possibly of the same mind and the majority misses the vote it might not reflect the majority's wishes only the wishes of those in attendance.

Wayward I think you are absolutely right about that. If it were not for the past two proposed motions of the name change and the brand identity of the club I would not have begun to delve further into understanding the workings of the club.

[wkerfoot]

I have no problem with "grossing up" the actual vote to the number of votes given the unit. I do object to "winner takes all" voting. I do object to the delegate voting his or her conscience on constitutional amendments. These are items which the entire membership should have a vote on and the motion should not be amended from the floor at the delegates meeting like what happened with the name change last year.

Bill

[dwightdi]

From what I heard Jim Franklin got the feeling after attending a few local and regional rallies that the vote last year was not going well. He proposed informally at a Region Rally that the Amendment be modified to read Wally Byam Airstream Club. After it looked at the delegates meeting there was opposition to AOAI someone proposed from the floor that the name be changed to WBACI and a number of delegates then switched their units votes and it almost passed. I think something like that might happen again this year. Right now the Fourwinds proposal looks like it will be blown out of the water but someone at the delegates meeting may try to propose some kind of compromise and try to get the delegates to switch their votes. There will be lots of political intrigue at this years International as well. Contoversey creates interest but it is divides the membership into taking sides.

[jimmickle]

It is interesting that units are allowed to have voting proceedures in direct conflict with the Blue Book. Looks like the Constution and Bylaws committee didn't do their work very well.

My unit uses proportional voting, and will vote 100% no if even one word in the proposed amendment is changed.

[dwightdi]

The local voting procedures are either in your local unit constitution or in your bylaws. The Blue Book contains the International Constitution and the International bylaws and does not apply to the way the local operates. The unit constitution is only reviewed by the constitution and bylaws committee for conflicts that effect interactions between the international and the units. The original International constitution clearly states that the locals have local responsiblity and are independent. The local units may have widely differing goals dependent on the what the local members want from the local club.

Those delegates that are not long time students of Roberts Rules and Orders are quickly out flanked and confused by what really goes on at and behind the closed door during the delegates meeting. Politics is politics in any club or social setting.