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Old 06-13-2016, 09:52 AM   #57
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Wally Byam Carravan Club international. It's in the name! I stand by my statement. Much of what you said was irrelevant to the op remarks.
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Old 06-13-2016, 10:05 AM   #58
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Bam - Baby Boom Luv

Whoa here!
Sounds like many of today's relationships before marriage; try it without commitment.
Of course the stakes of joining WBCCI is only a few bucks - not such a heartache if it does not work out like we like it.
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Old 06-13-2016, 10:22 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by 85MH325 View Post
In this case, the rules are arcane and made so that essentially you have to BE a member to get a copy of them.
Not true. You can download them without being a member. Right here: http://wbcci.org/blue-book/club-info...orms/blue-book
But it is true that "the rules" are somewhat arcane, as an inevitable result of be amended annually by the members— most of whom are not professional document writers— through motions and votes.
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So, my friend this exact behavior on "The Club's" part goes back at least twenty years.
I've only been in the club four years. I never have cared what the club was like twenty years ago— I didn't even know that WBCCI existed back then— all that matters to me is what the club is like now. It's not perfect now by any means, but it should be judged by prospective members based on what it is now— both the good and the bad— and not what it was then.

Change within WBCCI sometimes seems as if it can best be measured in geologic time— I hope that someday they may at least move out of the Cretaceous and into the Jurassic— but I'm moving closer to fossilization with each passing day myself.
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Old 06-13-2016, 11:16 AM   #60
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I never quite understood the belief by the site owner (and others participating at the time) that using a trademarked name of another entity without compensation and approval from that owner was ever OK. This keeps coming up occasionally as though Airstream isn't entitled to protect their assets as dictated by law.
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Old 06-13-2016, 11:23 AM   #61
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Many state constitutions have a structure that makes them difficult to amend, so you wind up with a lot of old bloat, resulting in crazy stories about, for instance, being illegal to carry wire cutters in your truck. (I believe that one is Texas.) The WBCCI structure seems to be fairly similar.

https://www.thrillist.com/entertainm...ird-state-laws


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Old 06-13-2016, 12:17 PM   #62
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I never have cared what the club was like twenty years ago— I didn't even know that WBCCI existed back then— all that matters to me is what the club is like now. It's not perfect now by any means, but it should be judged by prospective members based on what it is now— both the good and the bad— and not what it was then.
I agree that it should be judged by what it is now... it just doesn't appear that it's made any progress from what was going on twenty years ago. It's apparently still as mired in the same muck of its own making as it was then.

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I never quite understood the belief by the site owner (and others participating at the time) that using a trademarked name of another entity without compensation and approval from that owner was ever OK. This keeps coming up occasionally as though Airstream isn't entitled to protect their assets as dictated by law.
Actually, there are many, many exclusions to the trademark law, as long as the secondary use of the product name doesn't confuse the prospective consumer about who owns the product. In this case, although named with the best of intentions, the owner agreed that it could be inferred from the name that the company of the same name had some role in the Forum; hence the subsequent name change. The issue was that Airstream, Inc. pursued the subject very inelegantly.

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Wally Byam Carravan Club international. It's in the name! I stand by my statement. Much of what you said was irrelevant to the op remarks.
The WBCCI Board of Directors believes that much of what anyone else says is irrelevant. Your statement pretty much confirms the premise of my entire lengthy post very concisely. Thank you.
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Old 06-13-2016, 01:16 PM   #63
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No, thank you.
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Old 06-13-2016, 02:16 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by 85MH325 View Post
I agree that it should be judged by what it is now... it just doesn't appear that it's made any progress from what was going on twenty years ago. It's apparently still as mired in the same muck of its own making as it was then.



Actually, there are many, many exclusions to the trademark law, as long as the secondary use of the product name doesn't confuse the prospective consumer about who owns the product. In this case, although named with the best of intentions, the owner agreed that it could be inferred from the name that the company of the same name had some role in the Forum; hence the subsequent name change. The issue was that Airstream, Inc. pursued the subject very inelegantly.



The WBCCI Board of Directors believes that much of what anyone else says is irrelevant. Your statement pretty much confirms the premise of my entire lengthy post very concisely. Thank you.

As a member of the WBCCI Board of Directors, I disagree with you strongly.

Much HAS changed in my 10 years in the club. The pace of change is accelerating. Some members and Units remain unchanged. That is their privilege.

Get a new experience set from a unit or members who ARE different.

I am sorry for what's past. I can only change the future.


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Old 06-13-2016, 02:40 PM   #65
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It seems the message and the word needs to get out, as the attitudes of a particular Unit(s)....not the occasional individual...seem always to be attributed to the parent organization.

That's certainly how I see it, and I think how many of us see it.

The parent organization, the WBCCI, runs the club, right?

They get the annual dues, make the rules, and set the expectations of the members...and I'm sure that extends even more firmly to Unit leaders, whose attitudes and beliefs guide their members.

This quote is from the original post...

"I called WBCCI and talked to Julie and she informed me that the rally was for members only. I explained our situation and she said that she was sorry but only members could attend. She advised me to call our local Chapter and surely they could help me because I could come as a friend of someone in the club. I called the local Chapter and was told "No Way" would they let me come as a friend of one of the members but I could join and then would be able to go. I explained I would like to check out the whole scene first and than make a decision. He informed me that no one would sponsor me. "


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Old 06-13-2016, 02:45 PM   #66
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Not exactly. Each member carries their own beliefs and attitudes. Each unit is dependent on their VOLUNTEER officers. Policies and rules can be changed. Changing attitudes can be slower in some peer groups.

More often, mis-communication or mis-understanding can be the root of the problem.

Communication can be difficult in a large organization with many groups and many members.

We can only change the future, not the past.


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Old 06-13-2016, 02:54 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by mbmbstreamer View Post
As a member of the WBCCI Board of Directors, I disagree with you strongly.

Much HAS changed in my 10 years in the club. The pace of change is accelerating. Some members and Units remain unchanged. That is their privilege.

Get a new experience set from a unit or members who ARE different.

I am sorry for what's past. I can only change the future.


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Matt, thanks for your reply. And I know that some individual units are very different, welcoming and fun, and for that I applaud them. The national organization, though, still doesn't seem to have changed much, at least from the outside looking in.

I certainly hope, for the sake of the organization, that you are successful leading the charge for change. I find it interesting going back and reading through some of the WBCCI threads that I've posted to since 2003... and how the complaints today from members (and non-members) are largely the exact same complaints that have surfaced regularly here since that time. I'd have expected to be hearing different things about the organization.

If significant changes have indeed occurred, or are occurring in the National organization to make it less regimented, less exclusive, more friendly, and more inclusive for a wider group of people and interests, I'm sure that folks here would delighted to hear about it!

Roger

p.s. I realize that you can't change the past, but I hope that the Board can learn from it, and use those lessons wisely in charting the change for the future.
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Old 06-13-2016, 02:54 PM   #68
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Well, for what it's worth - I joined the WBCCI last month when we got our AS, and we were welcomed by very nice folks from the Florida unit. They encouraged us to sign up for rallies early as they fill up.

I also have read many negative threads about the WBCCI, but I personally have not observed any of that reported behavior. Not saying it doesn't happen, but as with any human endeavor you'll get different flavors of people. I don't need anyone's approval to enjoy my AS. If someone invites me in, great. If they don't, that's fine too.
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Old 06-13-2016, 02:56 PM   #69
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Well, with all due respect, this is a present day situation, not the past.

Each member may have their own attitudes and beliefs, but Units should be acting in accordance with the expectations of the parent group. If they are not, the parent group might have something to say about that.

It seems that whoever the OP spoke with at their local unit didn't say that no one could sponsor them at the International without membership, but that no one in their Unit would.

Someone interested in becoming a member. Sad.


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Old 06-13-2016, 03:02 PM   #70
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Individual units write their own Constitution and Bylaws. The international Constitution and Bylaws committee reviews them to assure there is no conflict with the International documents. They then approve them. The individual units have their own personalities based on the the preferences of the individual members and the leaders they have elected. Local Leaders last only for one year, so the members have a chance to change what they want each year. Unit Bylaw changes require a majority vote of the Unit board of directors to make a change. Constitutional changes must be voted on by the unit members.
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