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Old 07-20-2008, 08:42 PM   #99
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I have been following this thread and I am having a hard time finding the differences between some existing units and the E-Unit (you can use it if you like) you are discussing. Many units use email to deliver newsletters and other information to their members. Most unit business can be handled this way. As far as electronic discussions, there is a private area on these forums for several units where just that is happening every day.

Electronic media is great for taking care of unit business, but don't loose sight of what a unit is all about. It's the rallies, getting together with your friends and meeting new ones.
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Old 07-20-2008, 08:58 PM   #100
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as u are well aware...

ALL UNITS are tied to a specific geographic location (a STATE)and region...

this was a pia issue for the unit u are NOW part of...

since the actual NAME of the unit IS NOT 4cu...

there was a long thread here on JUST this issue during the development phase,

and how u folks circumvented, solved and caved into the charter process...

BEFORE U TOOK THE PROCESS OFF the public threads, so the wb' and ibt folks wouldn't see the thinking..

we (the imaginary a/s owners) understand the camping side and rewards of "meeting up"...

and while the wdcu was started with the intention of being a national unit...

it isn't.

cheers
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Old 07-21-2008, 09:47 PM   #101
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The use of the internet to communicate, conduct business, vote, plan, schedule, etc. provides those who use it with a tremendous advantage in conducting CAMPING events. The reason Units are regionally based, is to allow the members to meet in person and camp (or caravan). With the price of fuel, many folks are looking closer to home for most weekend travel.

Lucius is right. Conducting all communication and business electronically should make management of a unit much less time consuming...since you won't have to travel to meetings or clutter unit events with meetings.

As for obstacles within the club? People overcome obstacles through persistence and patience.

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Old 07-21-2008, 10:50 PM   #102
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The fact is that Richard has it right and 2air notes an example of the canards often used in these discussions to conflate custom with policy with bylaw with rules - seemingly to generate a foil.

The I'net is just one method of communication. It is a tool, or rather a set of tools.

If communication is the goal, the I'net is just one venue and a successful organization will use it as well as all other tools at its disposal in an appropriate manner.

What I see here appears to be diktat - see the problem my way, the solution I want, and allow nothing else. Condemn those who see it any other way.

Your Airstream is a rather heavy mobile object with a fairly limited set of uses. There is nothing virtual about using it for its intended purpose.

Communication serves an organization, not vice versa.

Virtual communication becomes an oxymoron if communication is deemed to be a process of transmitting a specific message.

Any form of communication must be aware of the limitations of the media if it is to provide known qualities of reliability and quality. To talk about one tool as being clearly superior to any other without a proper consideration for these factors indicates a discussion that is not after understanding but rather something else.

The obstacles for the club, as I see it, are those placed on it by those who'd rather talk about obstacles rather than solutions. As Richard notes, you don't have to look very far to see that those obstacles are created from whole cloth and not a part of reality.

Then there is the fact that anyone can start a club of any sort any time they want. Trying to foist communications limitations on the WBCCI, trying to change its mission and purpose, and suggesting that it should bend to your particular desires and wishes indicates that something more than just a virtual club or cyber unit is motivating the discussion. Why can't this 'something' be put on the table and discussed honestly? What is it that is actually bothering some enough to start threads like this and keep at the same ideology for so many pages?
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Old 07-21-2008, 10:52 PM   #103
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There is lots of kidding going on here but I think we tend to poke fun in light of frustration and seemingly unsurmountable difficulties. A little comic relief breaks tension, or would that be wind? Oops.

At unit or international levels and for the purposes of expediency, cost and central databases internet business proceedings would be ideal for as many as could benefit from it and moving ahead now is timely. Those without capabilities can still rely on human interface and a hand-up from others to enter their votes much more reliably than hoping someone will get to an International and record every members' vote that was cast. (Like 12 Eastern units could not this International.)

Rallies should be fun events and business should be just that business and each should not become a choice between attending to business or having fun. Both suffers as a consequence. Let's face it, we don't have all the time and money in the world to get things done. Why not allieviate this pressure and get it done with proven efficiency and maximize today's options. If not now, when?

Alright Rog, I am back to earth in Lapeer, Michigan, coming to you live through cyberspace. I adore you and Mariannne and plenty of other Metro Detroit area Airstreamers and then there are other WBCCI Metro Detroiters that I just no longer care to affiliate myself with. My choice is to become a Mal and still remain a member and attend any WBCCI event, and not limit myself to a geographical location. Albeit most of my difficulties began because my traveling and not attending unit functions. I was called out for not being a real Airstreamer because I don't attend luncheons and the local Detroit rallies. Membership materials were held hostage to force attendance. Excuse me I'll take a pass. Make mine global and don't make me feign a unit I don't attend or belong to or in. That is costing me my vote but not my conscience.

Let's make global affiliation legit, save our members some money and employ better voting practices! Long live local units but there is room in this hemisphere for all to dwell in unity.
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:13 AM   #104
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Hear, here to Wheel Interested!
I would be willing to join WBCCI right now
Again put my name on your list
Ted
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:42 AM   #105
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Having been a member of 2 distinctly different units, one rather traditional - DelMarVa, and the other bordering on virtual (and slightly global, in a sense) - WDCU, we much prefer the virtual approach. Both are great units, and we're still affiliate members of our old unit, and still camp with them. The WDCU just fits our style better - no scheduled luncheons/banquets, no one gets bent out of shape if you don't attend a rally, and much of the communication issues are taken care of via the internet. There's usually a business component at each gathering, but it's remarkably brief and very entertaining. We especially like the fact that when we rally, it's attended by people of all ages from all over the U.S. and Canada, and several members of other units.

In our 3 years in the WBCCI we've attended an International, and two Regionals. All were interesting and educational but, unless they're being held in our back yard, we're not likely to experience the club at those levels anytime soon. With an organization of this size, I suppose there's something for everyone. The WDCU is all about camping and having fun with other Airstreamers, and is just virtual enough for us.
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:15 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by 65GT View Post
A) What a virtual unit would be? (I envision campers all by themselves in the middle of the woods tending to their own fires with a laptop and a webcam off in the distance showing their grand view. Yet the laptop and webcam are so far away, they can't see anybody else's grand view).
This was already explained well by 2Air and Nvestysly. What you envision is just humor, right?

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B) How the experience would be any different than belonging to any existing unit that currently uses the Internet to conduct all of their business and all unit communications? (newsletters, group mailing lists, forums, voting, correspondence).

How a virtual unit would be ANY different than belonging to any of the ~137 currently existing WBCCI units, and still being able to log on here (and elsewhere) and communicate with your long distance friends that are MALs or members of other units.
Does any unit now conduct all of their business and communications by internet and none at rallies or gatherings? Including unit officer elections and discussion of local unit issues that everyone would like to hear about? Installation of officers? Do these existing units discuss and plan future rallies for widespread locations outside their regions, or do they mainly hold rallies within a region, attended occasionally by members from further away who can make the trip or happen to be in the area? Are they designed and focused to reach out to a large International membership, or are they focused on a smaller group that lives within the region with friendly openness to members outside the region for the purpose of having a vote, etc.?

What if I like the idea of being in WBCCI, displaying the numbers, getting the directory and magazine, the VAC newsletter, and supporting the movement of the club into the 21st century, but I just don't get anything out of that whole rally scene?

I don't think anyone wants to rain on the parade of those who are enjoying their experience with their unit, just trying to open the club up to more of the people who don't fit into that structure.

The idea of a unit for MALs that would make them feel like full-fledged members, with the ability to help organize and administer the unit over the internet seems like a good idea to me and one that the WBCCI should support. Can someone explain to me how this idea threatens the WBCCI? I don't understand the negative response whenever this idea is brought up?
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Old 07-22-2008, 05:00 PM   #107
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Vitrual Unit?

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Originally Posted by 65GT View Post

<BIG SNIPPY>

A virtual unit is nothing more than a private, paid membership forum. I still haven't seen anybody tackle the simple and basic questions from post#100 above. I think that silence speaks volumes...

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Uh, I don't mean to be antagonistic but I think there have been several posts that detail what is meant by "Vitrual Unit".

Right up front, I would like to state that we are new Airstream owners; since November of last year. As a result, for good or bad, we do not have a lot of preconceived notions about what an Airstream Club should "look like".

Every conversation we have had with people about the WBCCI, be it on line or face to face, leaves us with the same feeling/impression which is that the club is not meeting a tremendous number of peoples needs and that the politics around this issue is driving people away from the club.

While we would love to meet more Airstreamers, we have absolutely no desire to be involved with anything that is as politically charged as the WBCCI is these days.

What amazes me is that people continue to give money to the WBCCI in the form of dues when the leadership seems determined to steadfastly maintain the status quo. History is wonderful but at what price?

The idea of a club that meets in cyberspace to conduct all of its business is very attractive to us. We can participate wherever we may be. And it sure allows everyone to participate and geography is a non issue. Seems like a "no brainer" to me. This means that the face to face gatherings can be dominated by things other than club business.

It seems to me that the WBCCI has strangled itself with all of the different levels of bureaucracy that has. How many years does it take someone to reach a level of leadership at the highest level? It's no wonder to me that the people at the top do not want change after what they went through to get there.

All in all, I think the WBCCI as currently structured, is a dying entity; it is choking on its own bureaucracy. The only question in my mind is how long it will take and how many people will be alienated in the process?

Another thing I really find interesting is that so many WBCCI members are talking about all the WBCCI "issues" on this forum. When I go to WBCCI.org there is hardly anything in the forum there. Seems to me that all of these discussions should be held there.

In fact, when we first got our Airstream WBCCI.org is the first web site I visited. I was amazed; not about what I found there but what I did NOT find there. I was really surprised when I stumbled upon this forum. I would have thought what is going on here is what I would have found there. That, in and of itself, speaks volumes.

Of course this is just my opinion it is is not any better or worse than anyone eases.

Jim
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Old 07-22-2008, 06:57 PM   #108
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Uh, I don't mean to be antagonistic but I think there have been several posts that detail what is meant by "Vitrual Unit".

...

Of course this is just my opinion it is is not any better or worse than anyone eases.

Jim
Jim,

I don't know where you are located, but if you are ever in So Cal, please let me know and I will invite you to an El Camino Real Unit and South Coast Unit rally.

Bill
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Old 07-22-2008, 08:07 PM   #109
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So Cal???

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Jim,

I don't know where you are located, but if you are ever in So Cal, please let me know and I will invite you to an El Camino Real Unit and South Coast Unit rally.

Bill
Hi Bill,

At the minute we are in Oregon, visiting my wife's parents. We've been traveling full time since 2000. Full time with the Airstream since last November.

We may be in the So Cal area next spring. Next month we will be headed east and will spend the winter in the south east/west. We woudl love to attend. To date, the only Airstream event we have attened was the Can Opener Rally in Florida last December; I believe that is NOT a WBCCI event, however. We wanted to attend a 4CU event last February but were unable to do so given other commitments. Perhaps next year.

I am sure you are well intended and I am sure that the vast majority of people who belong to the WBCCI are great people. The ones we have met to date certainly are.

Our concerns are NOT with the people in the "Units" of the WBCCI. Our concern is becoming part of an organization over which we have absolutely no input/control. The idea of contributing money to an organization that wants to operate in a manner that I don't approve and/or have input to about operations makes no sense to me. Frankly I cannot see many people joining such an organization. I suspect that I am NOT alone in this regard given the declining membership of the WBCCI.

Perhaps I have been misinformed, but it is my understanding that the vast majority of the money that is collected in dues by the units does not remain int the units; it is automatically transferred "higher up the food chain". Am I wrong?

Jim
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Old 07-22-2008, 09:26 PM   #110
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Another thing I really find interesting is that so many WBCCI members are talking about all the WBCCI "issues" on this forum. When I go to WBCCI.org there is hardly anything in the forum there. Seems to me that all of these discussions should be held there.

In fact, when we first got our Airstream WBCCI.org is the first web site I visited. I was amazed; not about what I found there but what I did NOT find there. I was really surprised when I stumbled upon this forum. I would have thought what is going on here is what I would have found there. That, in and of itself, speaks volumes.

Jim
Jim: I have had the same feeling about the lack of postings on WBCCI forum although it's improving. Is someone from the 2020 committee picking up on this thread?
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:09 PM   #111
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This forum is evidence that a "global/cyber" group can operate with actual rallies and face-to-face encounters. We require no set organization, yet we can create a rally whenever and however we wish simply by putting out the word. No one takes offense that a rally is planned across the country from where one lives; everyone knows that if you choose to drive the distance, you are welcome. If you are in the area, stop by. The campfire is always lit and the welcome mat is always out. A virtual unit, or such a unit by any other name..., should operate the same way. All the talk, business, planning, whatever, would be done like we are doing here. Rallies would fit interest and regions. So...why not? Is it possible this forum could form the nucleus of such a group, those members who are so inclined? ~G
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:21 PM   #112
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Hi Bill,

At the minute we are in Oregon, visiting my wife's parents. We've been traveling full time since 2000. Full time with the Airstream since last November.

We may be in the So Cal area next spring. Next month we will be headed east and will spend the winter in the south east/west. We woudl love to attend. To date, the only Airstream event we have attened was the Can Opener Rally in Florida last December; I believe that is NOT a WBCCI event, however. We wanted to attend a 4CU event last February but were unable to do so given other commitments. Perhaps next year.

I am sure you are well intended and I am sure that the vast majority of people who belong to the WBCCI are great people. The ones we have met to date certainly are.

Our concerns are NOT with the people in the "Units" of the WBCCI. Our concern is becoming part of an organization over which we have absolutely no input/control. The idea of contributing money to an organization that wants to operate in a manner that I don't approve and/or have input to about operations makes no sense to me. Frankly I cannot see many people joining such an organization. I suspect that I am NOT alone in this regard given the declining membership of the WBCCI.

Perhaps I have been misinformed, but it is my understanding that the vast majority of the money that is collected in dues by the units does not remain int the units; it is automatically transferred "higher up the food chain". Am I wrong?

Jim
Jim,

You are correct on the dues allocation. $55 goes to national and ECR dues are $22. I consider the national dues a small price to pay when I consider all of the friends which we have met over the past six years. We would have not met them if it were not for WBCCI. The Airstream world does not revolve around AirForums, only a very few of our fellow unit members belong to this forum. I spend more than $55 a month at the local coffee house.

Bill
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