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Old 04-11-2007, 10:40 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by 65GT
Hey hey-hey! You're on the right side but let's not elevate somebody that is passing FALSE information to sainthood okay? Jim Elmlinger is continuing to push FALSE information on our membership. He most certainly does not have it RIGHT. In bold is the FALSE information he is professing on our membership per his article at wbcci.org/forum and the April Blue Beret:

"Currently, it has been estimated that Class-A motorhomes represent approximately 20% of our overall membership"

The FACTS are quite different...

860 motor homes / 6699 members = 12.8% of this club is made up of motor homes -- NOT 20%. The author of this article has inflated the real percentage by 12.8/20 = 64%!


Jim's assertions just magnifies the careless approach the IBT took to address this problem. They didn't find out what 860 members wanted to do -- they went out and SELECTED a Thor motor home as a replacement vehicle for current members -- an SOB vehicle for NEW members -- and just when you thought they'd run out of gall -- they're qualifying USED SOBs to compete with used Airstreams for club membership?

WHAT are these folks smoking five steps up? Formaldehyde soaked oregano?

I'm still waiting to see if Jim is going to reply to the email I sent him (disclosed here):

http://www.airforums.com/forums/367450-post51.html

So far? CRICKETS!

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I guess I should have looked for a tongue-in-cheek emoticon when I said his numbers were right!

You know, last month and this month's Blue Beret has a list of the new members that have joined since the new directory came out. In the April edition there are 138 new members alone. If that is an average, that would yield 1656 new members per year. I know that probably is not an accurate average for every month, but if it were, that's a lot of new members! The problem is not getting people to join, it is getting people to stay in the club.

Now in last month's Blue Beret, the Club News reported that there was a net loss of 1200+ members between 2003 to 2005. It doesn't say how many of those members dropped out because they were too old to continue camping or had become infirm and unable to camp any more. It doesn't say how many of those members were lost because they died. Lets face it, the majority of the members of the WBCCI are older and it is only natural that, sadly, there is going to be a lot of loss due to member mortality. In less diplomatic terms, the members are dieing left and right faster than new members can join. It doesn't say how many members dropped their membership because their spouse died or went into a nursing home or other care facility and the surviving spouse or healthy spouse didn't want to camp without them. Sure there is in intra-club group of Free-Wheelers, but that's not for everyone.

There is a lot that isn't explained that should be. I think the leadership (if you can call it that) is trying to pull the wool over our eyes and unfortunately, senior citizens are often gullible enough to not realize it and to let it happen.
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Old 04-12-2007, 02:26 PM   #16
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The very best way to defeat the proposed MH ammendment to our constitution is to be present in numbers at any and all meetings or rallies which will be discussing or voting on the measure, numbers are what influences any legislative body! Boycotting such meetings or rallies do nothing but cast a negative result on such! This is from over 50 years of dealing with legislative measures regarding my profession. Lobbying does work! Not all of our region officers are motorhome owners, nor do they want to be, so get to yours and express your opinion regarding the MH situation. Encourage those volunteers who are spending many many hours trying to make the WBBCI function, so don't malign them, they need your support and help, remember the old addage about critizing until you've walked two miles in somebody's moccasins! Dean Kyle, 3 time past unit president
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Old 04-12-2007, 02:39 PM   #17
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Your first line above is right on, Dean. Thanks for sharing your experience, and welcome to our forum ~G
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Old 04-12-2007, 03:04 PM   #18
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2 Thoughts

Just 2 quick (I hope) thoughts on the topic.

1. Assuming the quality of these AS MOHO's is so poor that they have to be replaced soon, that must mean that they are of poor enough quality that they can not be sold. So why don't these folks just keep them and that alone will allow them to stay members. Heck, Kimber (WALLY54) has her own membership on a trailer that is not road worthy by any stretch of the imagination.

2. We have heard the arguement that many of these folks who own motorhomes in the first place have them because they are too old and frail to operate a trailer. Well, we noticed this week while on the road that every single class "A" on the road had a car hitched to the back. So we thought about it. If you go to International or any rally in a class A, you aren't often going to take that big rig on a drive around town as you check out all the tourist hot spots. You almost have to have a vehicle in tow to get around. So the question is - is it Really all that easier to hitch up a car, bending over and hooking up and all, than to hitch up a trailer. Anybody with an electric hitch jack can do it without even lifting so much as a switch.

One last thought - Looks like Region 8 leadership has spoken on behalf of all of it's members - It is now posting pictures of non-airstream brands on it's home page (look on the left) and also posting letters of support from it's leaders there also. Thanks to 65GT for posting that little ditty on SaveWSally forums. If I were in Region 8 I would be mad. Heck - I already am.
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Old 04-12-2007, 04:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
... (snip) ... One last thought - Looks like Region 8 leadership has spoken on behalf of all of it's members - It is now posting pictures of non-airstream brands on it's home page (look on the left) and also posting letters of support from it's leaders there also. Thanks to 65GT for posting that little ditty on SaveWSally forums. If I were in Region 8 I would be mad. Heck - I already am.
"Norm" (Region Pres) is pretty clear about his support of the motion and uses the very rationale that has been questioned in this thread. Humph. (I'll repeat again: If a Four Winds WBCCI member shows up here asking for a WBCCI discount, it ain't gonna happen. Maria and I disagree on a lot of things, but on this one we're of one mind.)


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Old 04-12-2007, 06:10 PM   #20
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I wonder if the IBT has considered the possibility of some of the more progressive units like WDCU, the VAC, Classic Airstream Club, etc. "seceding" from the union and forming a club free of Berets, teen pagents, and flag ceremonies? Following the discussions on the forums, the time seems rife for such an event. That loss would far outweigh a few motorhome owners...

I just don't get the whole issue. I used to own a Porsche 924 and was a member of the Porsche Club of America. I had a great time and made many friends. However, when I sold the 924 I knew that my membership was over. I didn't try and convince them to let F-150's into the club. Instead I bought an Airstream and made more friends and had different experiences. Such is life. WBCCI is a club "all about the members" but those members share the common bond of owning an Airstream. Period.
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Old 04-12-2007, 08:44 PM   #21
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No, they don't get it, in fact they really do have blinders on. I am for saving Wally's heritage. If the IBT is successful in getting that piece of BS passed i will walk and I will join any effort to form a new club. If that means VAC, CAC and clubs like WDCU (my unit) I will follow.

I am spitting mad at those who suggest that it is a "Wally cult". I will tell what it is not - a Fourwinds/THOR cult.
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Old 04-12-2007, 10:01 PM   #22
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There is a lot that isn't explained that should be. I think the leadership (if you can call it that) is trying to pull the wool over our eyes and unfortunately, senior citizens are often gullible enough to not realize it and to let it happen.[/quote]

yep yep us old people over 60 are dumb and gullible. thank you for your stupid comment.
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Old 04-12-2007, 10:51 PM   #23
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I originated this thread. Just want to say, for the record, that if this amendment is passed, my wife and I will drop our WBCCI membership. We already belong to Good Sam, so will have plenty of multi-brand rallies to go to. My name sake, Wally Byam must be spining in his grave.

Wallybyam & Wife
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Old 04-13-2007, 12:50 AM   #24
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Come on Bob....

Bob,

Are you a member of WBCCI? If so, what is your number??? If not, why are you concerned about this issue - are you thinking about becoming a member?

You know Bob, I have discovered you practicing your craft on the XNXX forums (nice avatar BTW). I have seen you hack away at people with the strongest of vitriol for the smallest of issues (pun intended - if anybody wants to know what I am talking about PM me and I will send you a link). Once you warm up over there, you start swinging an axe here on these forums.

You own a motorhome, not even the class we are talking about, and for some reason think this is a personal attack against you. It is not about you. It has hothing to do with you personally. It is only about protecting the 52 year + single brand identity of this club by not accepting Fourwinds MOHO's into the club. What really is you point of exception?
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Old 04-13-2007, 06:26 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobchevy89
There is a lot that isn't explained that should be. I think the leadership (if you can call it that) is trying to pull the wool over our eyes and unfortunately, senior citizens are often gullible enough to not realize it and to let it happen.
yep yep us old people over 60 are dumb and gullible. thank you for your stupid comment. [/quote]


ist's not because they're 60 that they're stupid, but it's also not because they're 60 that they can't be stupid.
nothing to do with age.
And I would not be surprised that they could consider under 60 not "experienced" enough to be heard...
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Old 04-13-2007, 08:32 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobchevy89
There is a lot that isn't explained that should be. I think the leadership (if you can call it that) is trying to pull the wool over our eyes and unfortunately, senior citizens are often gullible enough to not realize it and to let it happen.
yep yep us old people over 60 are dumb and gullible. thank you for your stupid comment. [/quote]I apologize for stereotyping. I really shouldn't have done that, but the fact is that people in their senior years do tend to take people at face value and to be trusting. Their generation, and yours, are trustworthy for the most part. I know my own mom is way too trusting and a couple of times has almost been taken advantage of by slick talking sales pitches. Fortunately, she has never been swindled out of her life savings and when she has had to conduct business on her own since my father died such as buying a new car, the deals she has made haven't been to the extent that she couldn't afford them. But I'm getting off point. The point is is that seniors do tend to be trusting and do tend to be taken advantage of because of that point. This is why scammers and telemarketers will go after seniors when they can. This is a well know fact of life. It is a sad social commentary, but it is an unfortunate reality in this day and time.

When I read that the IBT initiated a proposal that will bring in SOB motorhomes into the WBCCI so they will have the option of buying a new motorhome whenever they please regardless of the tenants of the club constitution and that there are approximately 6,800 members or 7,800 members (depending on who you listen to and which month you read the Blue Beret) and that there are 860 members with motorhomes and that Jim Emlinger says that is 10-12% one month and 20% of the membership with motorhomes the next and then my local unit president (who owns a motorhome) says that's 30% of the members owning motorhomes, I can't help but believe the leadership of the WBCCI is pushing its own agenda and is trying to take advantage of the trusting nature and gullibility of the predominantly senior membership of the organization.

If that offends you, I am truly sorry that I did so. It was not my intention to personally attack any individual because of their age or whether they were retired or still working. But let's face it, seniors as a whole are more easily taken in because they are generally an honest group of people who are not as suspicious of others as other groups as a whole because they think other people are as honest as they are. Their whole lives have been spent dealing with other trustworthy people. Remember, deals used to be consummated with handshakes, now they are consummated with contracts that can consume reams of paper and tons of man-hours of legal fees. Times have changed quicker than people's mindsets change.

I may have just dug myself in deeper but I hope that you understand that I was trying to express my frustration that the IBT seems to be trying to do the same type of scam on its members that professional scam artist try to do and I think it stinks.
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Old 04-13-2007, 09:04 AM   #27
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Jonathon, I knew what you meant and having met you I know that you are not the type of person to intend any disrespect. My best friend lived to be 100 years old, living alone in her home, and while she was sharp as a tack until the day she died she and others realized there are those unscrupulous enough to prey on Seniors for many of the reasons you outlined in your post. This being an online forum it is easy to log in and and have a phrase catch our attention and we are able to react to it immediately without seeing or knowing its constructor or construction.

So now that we are all reved up it should be easy to channel our energy back towards the other brand motion proposed by the IBT. I think there are many members who do not attend their business meetings and trust that their leaders have their best interests at heart. They may not have picked up their Blue Beret and they may not be informed about the current business at hand. If they do not attend to vote, all their votes will be used and counted for them using that percentage scale of who is in attendance. That has serious potential to be damaging and not represent their wishes. I hope that the club can get 1M1V(1 member 1 vote) and a voting procedure to make at home voting a reality and impliment that as soon as possible to correct this. We also need to make active members aware of the impact this resolution, if passed, would have upon the club. The entire WBCCI structure is based on "being nice" and not speaking out and trusting the unopposed leaders and incumbants.
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