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Old 08-25-2010, 09:24 PM   #15
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Bob,

This may be going way out on the limb, but I still don't understand why a Social Club like WBCCI needs a grievance committee nor the structure associated with it. I realize that Robert's Rules addresses it, but that doesn't mean that an organization which abides by RR is required to have a GC.

I would propose abolishing it, and removing all references to it in the Constitution and Bylaws.

I would also propose that a balanced budget be part of the C&B.

The current Bylaws as they relate to member grievance are antiquated and the promote disharmony clause is impossible to quantify, therefore, unenforceable.

RR should replace that section.

Also on the July 5th 4:50 recording at 1 hour 34 minutes and 55 seconds R MacDonald makes a notice of motion that he will file a motion at the upcoming Mid-Winter IBT meeting to eliminate the GC.
It was recorded in the minutes at the IP's request.
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:27 PM   #16
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Bob,

Please let us know when your access to the WBCCI forums has been reinstated. The speed in which that is done will be revealing concerning how that your committee's recommendations will be be accepted and implemented.

I have little hope regarding the success of any recommendations which your committee proposes, but I hope that I am wrong.

Bill

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Charlie Burke is the committee chair, I assume he reports to someone on the IBT.

I spoke to Norm about the issue and will follow up with a detailed email in the AM

More info here

Action I agree, let's see what can be done.
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:29 PM   #17
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Bob,

First let me say, I'm not trying to pee you off on this one,
Yes u are,

Please state your rational and which bylaw(s) pertains to each item, you don't mind helping out a little do ya buddy
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Old 08-26-2010, 06:29 AM   #18
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Great Thread

Bob,
Thank you for starting this thread.

It seems that this thread might provide a place where we can voice our specific concerns about the operation of WBCCI and perhaps offer realistic solutions in a more civil "tone".

I appreciate your time and efforts trying to save our club and hope that WBCCI can be salvaged.

Thank you for jumping in and doing it.
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Old 08-26-2010, 10:20 AM   #19
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I'm glad to see an opportunity for positive action arise, even though it will be a long haul before any progress becomes apparent.

I have just three recommendations:

1. Abolish the Ethics and Grievance Committee. I can't imagine a more destructive way for an organizaion to manage dissent;
2. Insist that club resources be managed by club officers or to volunteers appointed and directed by officers (and not delegated out to vendors). A case in point is the website - it is much too valuable a resource to be run independently from the club;
3. Whatever language is needed to make elections meaningful - not just 3rd-world style ratifications of leadership's choices.

I will apply for readmission to the club - after a bit.

Pat
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Old 08-26-2010, 11:11 AM   #20
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1. Abolish the Ethics and Grievance Committee. I can't imagine a more destructive way for an organizaion to manage dissent;
2. Insist that club resources be managed by club officers or to volunteers appointed and directed by officers (and not delegated out to vendors). A case in point is the website - it is much too valuable a resource to be run independently from the club;
3. Whatever language is needed to make elections meaningful - not just 3rd-world style ratifications of leadership's choices.

Pat I understand 1 & 2, can you amplifiy your thoughts on 3 please.



.
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Old 08-26-2010, 11:12 AM   #21
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Bob,

Thanks for the update of the minutes, I will look forward to the Mid-Winter results of the discussion.

It would seem the easiest way would be to simply delete Article V, and VI, C.
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Old 08-26-2010, 11:24 AM   #22
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voting

On voting:
There must be a way to vote that gives each and every member the opportunity to, be it by mail, in person, or electronically.
There also needs to be a way an individual voter can instruct the delegate to vote for a person running from the floor.
Since some running from the floor are not known until the actual meeting it should be possiible to , for a member to instruct his delegate to vote for anyone running for that office from the floor, but not the "approved" candidate.
Block unit voting needs to go unless in fact everyone did vote that way.
Candidates for office need to publish a statement of what they are going to do for the club instead of or in addition to resumes. From the floor candidates should have the same rights to publishing their message in the Blue Beret as the slate put forth by the nominating committee either free, or every one should pay
I would also suggest that where possible the nominating committee put forth 2 candidates for each office.
The present system is inconsistent from unit to unit and year to year , at least in the case of my unit.
Basically the system needs to be reworked to give us a choice.
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Old 08-26-2010, 12:21 PM   #23
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FWIW one of the organizations I belong to with approx 75,000 members uses an online or telephone system for voting. I do not know what the cost to the organization to use it is. With that disclaimer, it allows each member to vote either via online or phone utilizing their membership number and a pin. A system like that would allow all members to vote should they choose to do so, and vote for a candidate they like early, or wait for any floor candidates to come forward. The final tally is then released at the end of the voting period. This would also allow members a couple of days to think about the available candidates. For example all existing and floor candidates are announced on Monday of the meeting and the vote closes on Wednesday with installation on Thursday or Friday.

This would also allow members unable to attend in person, but watching a stream to become informed and still vote in a timely manner.

Should this be something deemed worthy of pursuit, I would be happy to gather the necessary contacts and PM/email them to the committee.
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Old 08-26-2010, 12:48 PM   #24
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This would also allow members unable to attend in person, but watching a stream to become informed and still vote in a timely manner.

Should this be something deemed worthy of pursuit, I would be happy to gather the necessary contacts and PM/email them to the committee.

Something like this would be great. It would get all the units out of the process and allow the membership to vote directly for the International candidate of their choice. It would also allow things to proceed in a more timely manner instead of units voting in March or April. A lot can happen in a couple months
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Old 08-26-2010, 12:52 PM   #25
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Pat I understand 1 & 2, can you amplifiy your thoughts on 3 please.
On Elections, it seems to me that the process strongly favors the slate put up by the current officers; that the elections are really ratifications.

I think the difficulties Leo faced were instructive in that they illustrated several of the ways an un-sanctioned candidate can be defeated long before any votes are cast.

Someone earlier made a reference to how the Masons advance - chair by chair, year by year. I don't know if that is their real process, but it appears that the wbcci does something similar.

I won't try to provide the proper language, but I believe others have suggested language changes previously.

Pat
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Old 08-26-2010, 01:07 PM   #26
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Elections Part 1 - Major Changes

This series of posts is partially in response to posts on elections. What is outlined are major results and not specific amendments to the by-laws and constitution. Sorting those out is the job of the By-laws committee.

1. Members at Large (MAL) shall be allowed to vote in all international elections.

2. MALs shall be allowed to vote in all region elections providing they reside in that region based on their address on file at HQ.

3. MALs shall be allowed to hold international offices.

4. MALs shall be allowed to hold region offices providing that they reside within the boundary of the region - see #2.

5. All amendments to either the International Constitution or By-laws shall be approved by a direct vote of the membership. An affirmative vote of (insert percentage - 60 or 75?) of the membership (or membership voting) shall be required for passage.

6. International Officers shall be elected by a direct vote of the membership.
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Old 08-26-2010, 01:26 PM   #27
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Wait a minute

Leo as an an expelled member you have no place here nor will I address you or your sock puppets.


We both know each other to well cool it!
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Old 08-26-2010, 01:28 PM   #28
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Pat and Howard, thanks for your input give me some time to reflect on it.
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